PTV responds, and again avoids the peninsula

 
Topic moved from News by bevans on 26 Oct 2015 12:46
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
From this post it would seem there are no plans for the development of further rail options on the peninsula which comes as a surprise.  Will there ever be a plan to continue the rail network past Balnarring to Red Hill again and onto the Port Philip Bay side for Dromana and other points south?

PTV responds, and again avoids the peninsula

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  melbtrip Chief Commissioner

Location: Annoying Orange
I see PTV replay and the following statement I would like to comment on:

Advised that Mornington is inside the metropolitan area. It is therefore outside the scope of the Regional Network Development Plan.
Somebody


If the Mornington Peninsula is in Greater city of Melbourne metropolitan area and I feel the whole Mornington Peninsula should be in zone 2 area and which would mean cheaper fares for people in Mornington Peninsula and fact I feel any area that is in Greater city of Melbourne metropolitan area should have Melbourne metropolitan fares applied to it.

Here is map of Greater city of Melbourne metropolitan area from ABS
  Gwiwer Rt Hon Gentleman and Ghost of Oliver Bulleid

Location: Loitering in darkest Somewhere
We might hope that PT> - Public Transport Victoria (my italics for emphasis) - would apply joined-up thinking and see across artificial boundaries drawn as lines on maps.

It seems not.  

They are as blinkered as every iteration of their predecessors and insist on separating "regional" from "metropolitan" and ne'er the two shall meet.  They have the head-in-sand attitude we saw with their predecessors also.  There is no suggestion of progress and creation of a viable, attractive public transport network; there is only the sense that disparate parts of the monolith, probably different people at different desks, don't speak to each other, have no interest in doing so and are only pushing their own local projects to justify their salaries.
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Norda Fittazroy
We might hope that PT> - Public Transport Victoria (my italics for emphasis) - would apply joined-up thinking and see across artificial boundaries drawn as lines on maps.
"Gwiwer"
Gwiwer; it's the perfect set up. Ample opportunity for, "It's nothing to do with me".  It retains the PS Comfort Zone, and allows people to do the two very important functions, namely, guarding your asre, and planning your retirement. What else matters?
  TheBlacksmith Chief Commissioner

Location: Ankh Morpork
Anyone for taking public transport out of private hands and putting it back in the public arena?
  Gwiwer Rt Hon Gentleman and Ghost of Oliver Bulleid

Location: Loitering in darkest Somewhere
Anyone for taking public transport out of private hands and putting it back in the public arena?
TheBlacksmith
That would be the same public arena which insisted that there was no connection between the PTC in Melbourne and V/line beyond?  The very one which refused to allow use of metropolitan tickets on the 788 bus which was, despite being numbered in the suburban series, always considered a "country" bus and charged its own unique fares.  The same one which applied the same archaic system to the 683 bus because it happened to cross a line drawn on a map and, like the 788, was run from a depot beyond the line.

It's time our public transport providers grew up.  So long as they live in a cosy ivory tower under what ever name we shall have inferior and disjointed public transport which does nothing like run as a network.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
Anyone for taking public transport out of private hands and putting it back in the public arena?
TheBlacksmith
Nope
  TheBlacksmith Chief Commissioner

Location: Ankh Morpork
Anyone for taking public transport out of private hands and putting it back in the public arena?
Nope
BrentonGolding
OK, so perhaps you can enlighten us with a treatise on why private operation of the network has been good for the people?
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Norda Fittazroy
I'd like someone to show me how privatisation of not just the Railways, but all the Victorian utilities, has benefitted me.
  TheBlacksmith Chief Commissioner

Location: Ankh Morpork
I'd like someone to show me how privatisation of not just the Railways, but all the Victorian utilities, has benefitted me.
Valvegear
Yes, I would go along with that. It never fails to amaze me how such an obvious grab for money is not recognised as such, and one by one the states BS their people into believing that tired old crap about 'competition and privatisation is good for the people'.

All it does is provide a sudden cash flow to fund their own private bit of pork barrelling, then it is gone and the public are left to fund it by continuing subsidies.
  hot-axle-box Junior Train Controller

Anyone for taking public transport out of private hands and putting it back in the public arena?
Nope
BrentonGolding
Yep.....money needs to stay in Victoria.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
Anyone for taking public transport out of private hands and putting it back in the public arena?
Nope
OK, so perhaps you can enlighten us with a treatise on why private operation of the network has been good for the people?
TheBlacksmith
What's that got to do with the original question? I don't think PT should be put back into government control because I don't believe it was any better under government control.

The level of subsidies and how they are paid etc is a different matter and should be looked into if it is being rorted.

BG
  Lad_Porter Chief Commissioner

Location: Yarra Glen
I'd like someone to show me how privatisation of not just the Railways, but all the Victorian utilities, has benefitted me.
Yes, I would go along with that. It never fails to amaze me how such an obvious grab for money is not recognised as such, and one by one the states BS their people into believing that tired old crap about 'competition and privatisation is good for the people'.

All it does is provide a sudden cash flow to fund their own private bit of pork barrelling, then it is gone and the public are left to fund it by continuing subsidies.
TheBlacksmith
A private operator, no matter what it is operating, has a primary responsibility to its shareholders, who in some cases will be offshore.  Benefit to the customers only occurs in the course of generating profits for the shareholders.
  TheBlacksmith Chief Commissioner

Location: Ankh Morpork
Anyone for taking public transport out of private hands and putting it back in the public arena?
Nope
OK, so perhaps you can enlighten us with a treatise on why private operation of the network has been good for the people?
What's that got to do with the original question? I don't think PT should be put back into government control because I don't believe it was any better under government control.

The level of subsidies and how they are paid etc is a different matter and should be looked into if it is being rorted.

BG
BrentonGolding
One can always point to the case of Freight Victoria, which was an unmitigated disaster from start to end. They ran the whole state network into the ground and then sold up and buggered off.
  woodford Chief Commissioner

Errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr............. What's this thread have to do with the Mornington Peninsula???????

The distance from Melbourne City to Sorrento is 99klm via the Nepean Hwy and the Mornington Peninsula Freeway, but it would take around 2 hours to drive the distance. Now Seymour is almost the same distance but A Sprinter stopping all stations takes only 1 hour 30 minutes. Is it not ABOUT TIME, the Mornington peninsula became decent part of Victoria with a good heavy rail line. The old Red Hill line is an obvious way in as the alighnment is mostly still there.

How many places in the world would one have to drive through 100 kilometres of suburban area to a destination, particularly without ANY kind of decent public transport option for a lot of the distance.

The Franskton line, Oh dear, 44 kilometres and 1 hour by train, surely we can do better than that.

I have had the strong impression that politicians in Australia  think the world is going to end in a few years time and therefore we do not need to spend anything on transport.

woodford, trying to get a thread back at least somewhere near the track.
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
I honestly believe that the Mornington Peninsula buses should get an overhaul before any rail line is considered. That would give us a good demand gauge should a rail line be considered.
  Gwiwer Rt Hon Gentleman and Ghost of Oliver Bulleid

Location: Loitering in darkest Somewhere
The distance from Melbourne City to Sorrento is 99klm via the Nepean Hwy and the Mornington Peninsula Freeway, but it would take around 2 hours to drive the distance. Now Seymour is almost the same distance but A Sprinter stopping all stations takes only 1 hour 30 minutes. Is it not ABOUT TIME, the Mornington peninsula became decent part of Victoria with a good heavy rail line. The old Red Hill line is an obvious way in as the alighnment is mostly still there.

How many places in the world would one have to drive through 100 kilometres of suburban area to a destination, particularly without ANY kind of decent public transport option for a lot of the distance.

The Franskton line, Oh dear, 44 kilometres and 1 hour by train, surely we can do better than that.
Some thought in there but also some comparison of apples with other fruit.

"All stations" to Seymour by train is not all stations.  Almost all stations in the suburban area are not served.  Were all stations to be served another 20 minutes or so might be needed allowing about 20 seconds per station stop and for a diesel which has inferior braking / acceleration curves compared with the suburban electrics.  Thus if a true "all stations" to Seymour service was offered it would likely take about the same time - approaching two hours - as the quoted drive to Sorrento.

Frankston at (over) an hour for 44 kms reflects the stopping pattern which is all stations, all 31 of them if running via the City Loop and taking over 70 minutes in doing so, so not much farther apart than a kilometre and in some cases rather closer.  A few such as Carrum and Seaford are a decent distance apart.  Peak-time express trains skip 10 (up) or 11 (down) stations, generally do not serve the City Loop and are timed in about 54 instead of 64 minutes for a direct service.  Some Frankston line users would dearly love expresses at other times as the service is not competitive with driving time off-peak.

Beyond Frankston the demographic changes.  Far fewer people actually want to travel regularly to and from the City.  Yes a fair number do commute from Mornington including some schools traffic.  But on the whole a bus every 20 minutes offers an "as good as it gets" public transport option given that the train isn't able to go direct and the route via Baxter is a long and indirect option.  Mornington acts increasingly as the focal point for its eponymous peninsula.  Closer to Sorrento the major trip generators are the shopping, educational and welfare facilities of Rosebud and Rye.  

What is needed is not wasted investment in reopening a railway which never did well and was closed accordingly but further investment in more frequent bus services.  The 788 could be run every 30 minutes for example.  While that provides the main link the length of the peninsula and the other bus services are timed largely to suit very local needs for welfare, education and basic shopping services there are improvements which could be made.  The Melbourne Road route to Sorrento is unserved for example and some residential parts of Rye are a long way from a regular bus route.

The cross-peninsula Mornington - Hastings bus has been tried twice in recent years and failed to attract business each time.  It would seem that is a dead duck  despite appearing a logical link on a map.

The Stony Point railway and Westernport area bus services probably fall outside the scope of this topic as they service a quite distinct area with its own needs and travel patterns.  There is nothing to serve beyond Flinders and no point considering extending the bus beyond there towards Rye.  St. Andrews Beach already has its own - very infrequent - bus meeting some local demands.

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