Broken Hill Route for MSTS

 
  PhilChorusch Chief Commissioner

Location: Banned
G'day all,

I believe I can talk about this route with confindence

Since late 2009 I have been working off and on my Parkes to Broken Hill route as it was originally titled, when I showed a screenshot at the MSTS Forum For Australia only one person had guessed where I took the screenshot, I thought I could keep you guys guessing until Brian Bere-Streeter guessed it spot on and he asked me if I could continue to lay track to Molong to Where Chris has left off his Central West route and I am glad I took this challenge

The route is very close to being fully layed and then I will start adding scenery objects, roads etc. To the route, I am hoping that I can upload a video preview to youtube before releasing the route, I am looking at december next year or abit earlier maybe the first half of 2012 I guess it all depends how things go

Anyway, let me know what you guys think. Everything details stage 1 in the map below

Kind Regards, Phil

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  BrianBS Locomotive Driver

Eventually, when Phil finishes all stages of this new route, you will be able to drive from Sydney all the  way to Broken Hill (albeit over four routes) - Sydney to Wallerawang on 'Short West + Short South' - Wallerawang to Orange East Fork on 'Tumulla Bank + Plus' (coming soon !) - Orange East Fork to Molong on 'Central West' and Molong to Broken Hill on 'Broken Hill Line'.

We even have the Silver City Comet to run over the new line.
  MattOatenVR Junior Train Controller

Location: Melbourne
Great work Phil!
I look forward to seeing the progress of the route as well as the finished pruduct. Very Happy

Cheers,
Matt Oaten
  PhilChorusch Chief Commissioner

Location: Banned
Thanks Brian,

For your post, I was going to add the information but I ended up having a problem with my computer thankfully I had made back ups of the route and other needed files 8)

Thanks Matt and Brian,

For your kind encouragement, I very much appreciate it Smile  8)
Well, it's best if I done talk now and get on with it Wink
Kind Regards, Phil

PS. Would anyone know where I can find a full completely freeware video recording software to allow me to record the route for youtube for when I do have scenery objects, roads etc. within the route please? Thanks in advance, guys
  cooky2304 Train Controller

Location: Newcastle
Great stuff Phil!! Good on you for sticking with it Smile
Like always, you have my full support Smile

Brian, good to see your still around Smile Hope you've been going okay?
  PhilChorusch Chief Commissioner

Location: Banned
Thanks Billy 8)

Just a minor error with the route, I had to realign a right long curve due to being over curved just west of Molong so this is all fixed up now 8) Well at least to the best I can Wink
Kind Regards, Phil
  PhilChorusch Chief Commissioner

Location: Banned
G'day all,

Just a small update. The route is coming along quite nice except for all the realigning of the track, at the moment I'm just making my way down hill heading towards Parkes and once I get there I will start adding some scenery objects and post some screenshots for you all to see and then make the final stage to Condoblin, Grawlin Plains(on the Stockinbingal line), Goonumbla(on the Narromine line) and Trundle(on the Tottenham line) and send it off to beta testers
Kind Regards, Phil
PS. This route will also include the SCT freight terminal line and sidings just to the west of Goobang Junction, I have the starting point in the route already but the line hasn't been fully layed due to staying in RE too long on my Windows XP laptop.
  ARG706 Chief Commissioner

Location: SA
Phil,

Do you have any idea how long it takes to place accurate scenery over a route this long? You're talking about beta testing when you have 9 to 18 months work ahead of you. Your goal should be to complete all track work while keeping any more errors or problems to an absolute minimum. Afterwards, if there are any blue lines in the RE where there shouldn't be, then take care of them immediately. Do not put it off. If they are caused by dynamic track, then you may need to replace the track there. Be sure to run trains regularly. Track that looks ok in the RE may not always be problem free in the sim.

Once you are satisfied with the track, you can then focus on adding the scenery, which is less likely to be problematic unless you start regularly exceeding 1200 objects per tile (From my experience the tile loading process begins to become unpredictable around this threshold).
  PhilChorusch Chief Commissioner

Location: Banned
Thanks ARG, for your reply

I do consider your advice. However to answer your question in regards to if I have ever added scenery to a route then YES, I very much have added objects to my own 2 routes one this route at Parkes, by using the default shapes and had abit of a play around and I've added objects to my proposed North Coast route at Macksville and Sawtell. I did have most of Parkes in including roads at a very very early stage of this route but I deleted it because I had an arguement with Allan about this route

Please don't knock my confindence within this route, that's all I'm asking. The track is mostly layed, and I only got about 30 or 40 kilometers or more to go (If this information is wrong that's because I didn't look or count the kilometerage that I have left to lay to complete stage 1)

Yes, I am fully aware of how long it will take me to add scenery objects, roads and whatever else I need to add to the route. I didn't mention anything about dynamic track, there is ONLY at least one curve that isn't dynamic track and yes I know that you are all going to put me down on this but I only can lay routes using dynamic track, and use the curved track selections for tunnels or wider or longer curves that the dynamic track will not fit the discription of that curve

I have worked out a way of using dynamic track with 100% success and NO ERRORS:

1) Lay the full curve with dynamic track first and align it to the streight section until the streight section is fully or close to being correct until the next curve

2) Lets say the angle of the dyname track piece is 1.000 then divide that by 4 which is 250 for the angle equalling to a 4 section dynamic track piece for each curve for that one curve to be layed, I have NO ERRORS what so ever by doing this. From what I can see and from experience if you go over 390 on the dynamic track ANGLE you will encounter errors within a route I will post a screen shot on what I'm taking about just on a single curve where it will show you guys how I splited a dynamic track curve into sections, but I don't want to waist time doing this, I want to get this route done and that's it
Kind Regards, Phil
  PhilChorusch Chief Commissioner

Location: Banned
Hello to all,

I thought I provide an up to date post regarding this route since it has been awhile, well lets just say that the route itself isn't dead yet which has supprised me however after downloading the latest version of Google Earth I found an interesting discovery within my markers which means that I will need to relay all my track but thanks fully I can cheat half of this and lay the rest of the track into Broken Hill, Dubbo, Tottenham etc after I fix up the markers for the route

Now, yes all the track will be in place well at least I hope it will be but the route will be released in serveral stages by adding scenery objects, terrain textures etc to the route so I am hoping to release stage 1 as Molong to Condoblin, Parkes to Forbes and Goobang Junction to Narromine and at least the Tottenham line completed but this would most likely be released in a 2 stage setting so this is how I am planing to go and then stage 2 Condoblin to the SA border or at least close to the SA border as this will cover all the sidings, yards etc around the Broken Hill area to be in the route as for the Hillston line this will not be apart of the route since it is set in the modern era and I do hope to include full weekday activities for the route

Anyway, this is the discovery screenshot I found in Google Earth since updating it, you can see where the track is and how far off my markers are


  Guard Class 2 Chief Commissioner

Location: Elizabeth,South Australia
Phil, be honest. Who is really going to notice? It is quite close, and MSTS is never going to be exact due to its limitations and the fact it is such an old program now. Just keep going with what you have laid, and try and get the track laid for the whole route. No one will ever know it is slightly off except yourself.
  PhilChorusch Chief Commissioner

Location: Banned
Phil, be honest. Who is really going to notice? It is quite close, and MSTS is never going to be exact due to its limitations and the fact it is such an old program now. Just keep going with what you have laid, and try and get the track laid for the whole route. No one will ever know it is slightly off except yourself.
"Guard Class 2"


Hi Guard Class 2,

With this route I need to have it as accurate as much as possible, for future extentions as this route is getting released in stages so once I realign the track I will be releasing the Molong to Condoblin section of the route along with the sections between Parkes to Red Bend (near Forbes), Parkes to Narromine and Bogan Gate to Tullamore

The Parkes section to Narromine will not cover Narromine within stage 1 of the route so it will be at the junction just before the Narromine line meets up on the Main West and this will allow me to begin stage 2 to cover from Narromine to Dubbo, Narromine to Trangie (or to complete the line to Cobra, Bourke etc.) but this depends of what is left of the line to Bourke if not I will only go as far as Cobra and the CSA Mine

To the main line, stage 2 is planned to cover Condoblin to Menindee or at least close or somewhere halfway between Condoblin and Menindee it all depends how things work out first

As for the section between Tullamore and Tottenham this is the last section to be done for the route, this would most likely be a stage 5 or 6 so I am looking at 6 stages to complete the full route

Molong to Broken Hill (Line ends about halfway towards the SA border)
Parkes to Red Bend (Red Bend is south of Forbes)
Parkes to Narromine
Dubbo to Narromine to Trangie or Cobra or the rest of the lines to Bourke etc..
and Bogan Gate to Tottenham

I would most likely extend this route in the future maybe as far as Merrygoenand Coonamble, this way we can connect up with the North West route at Merrygoen, but for now this is just a thought and it means nothing at the moment so don't keep your hopes up about this section yet I still have a long way to go
  Guard Class 2 Chief Commissioner

Location: Elizabeth,South Australia
Phil, I guess what I was trying to say is that you seem to want your route to be perfect, and MSTS, with it's limitations, is never going to be perfect. You have started many routes and always ended up with the same problem, You have sent routes to Alan Landsborough to FIX for you, and then still ended up with more errors in them. You need to accept that MSTS will never allow you to make them as perfect as you seem to want or expect them to be. Some small errors are to be expected, and you just need to slowly realign the track back towards where it should be, so that it will be back on track (pun intended) by the time you reach the next critical point. i.e. a station or junction point, etc.

Work within the limitations of yourself and the program, and eventually you will reach a point where you might actually have a route completed to the point where you can play it and enjoy it and possibly even release it to other MSTS fans.

Cheers,
Wayne
  Aussieman Beginner

Location: Woy Woy NSW
What is the status of this route. Be nice to see it finished.

Cheers
Pat
  cityrail-rulez Chief Train Controller

What is the status of this route. Be nice to see it finished.

Cheers
Pat
Aussieman
G'day Pat,

Unfortunately, I haven't got any time to myself to finish this route or any other route projects off. The track still remains the same and I was building it as 2 or 3 separate routes due to the line being extensively too long and it would be a boring run and not to mention it would come with a warning lable noting that it may cause seizures during game play since games can cause photographic seizures

I thought it through that this route will never be publicly released due to the cause of photographic seizures unless I'm successful splitting the route into 2 or 3 separate routes, but everytime I tried to do this I am pulled away from my hobby with work so I don't have much time to do anything relating to MSTS or 3d modelling these days

The only routes I want mostly completed is my North Coast route "Taree-Brisbane" of course Brisbane will not officially be included within the route due to un-matched narrow gauge and dual gauged tracks, if there was a matching narrow gauge tracks then I will complete into Roma Street and Fishermans Island but I have stopped it before Acacia Ridge yard, the route officially continues north from where Peter Newell has left his Coals to Newcastle route

I also want my Blackwater route completed, I have planned an extention to Gladstone but haven't had much time to begin laying track yet "if and when I can do it"
  woodford Chief Commissioner

A couple of comments on the previous post, this is not to be seen in anyway as any kind of critcism.....................

You are developing the route and it is of course yours to do with what you wish.

You said,"due to the line being extensively too long and it would be a boring run"

The distance from Parkes to Broken hill is around 500 miles, a train could presumeably do this in 6 hours.In the late Alan Lownesbourgh's Adelaide hills and SE route the distance from Adelaide to Mt Gambier is 205 miles due to the nature of a lot of the line it takes 7 hours to drive this distance. I have done it now at LEAST 30 times and have never had any health issue or found it in ANY WAY boring. Note: I did make sure Alan new this. To do this run, it is usually broken up into 4 sections, Mt Gambier to Bordertown, Bordertown to Murray Bridge, Murray bridge to Mt Barker Junction and Mt Barker Junction to Adelaide.

It is not up to the developer or builder of anything to provide completely for users issues/istrangeness's if that was the case NOTHING would be manufactured or built, all one can do is issue a waning apropriate to what you as the developer sees fit.

In the Queensland route one could always use what one may call "MSTS's route developers perogative" and simply make the brisbane metro area single gauge. Doing almost any route requires the developer to simplify it, to a greater or lesser extent.

woodford
  cityrail-rulez Chief Train Controller

Thanks for your post woodford, I appreciate your words of encouragement as that is how I see it Smile

I was looking at this route last night thinking how good it would be to complete it and drive the full length from Sydney to Wallerawang on the SW+SS, Wallerawang-Orange on the Tumulla Bank+Plus, Orange to Molong on the Central West and Molong to Broken Hill in this route

The only issues that stops me from completing any route or 3d model is a lack of poor information especially on the Queensland routes I want to get done, North Coast route needs to be completely re-started due to track database issues and not being able to remove track from Newcastle, Lochinvah to north of Taree (Where Peter Newell left off his CTN route) and I need a curve & gradient diagram of the Lawrence Road and Rappville diviations to complete this route. As for the Griffith route I done it just for fun and I'd thought I just pass that onto the Australian community to choose to complete it and release the route when ready, I've noticed quite a lot of downloads here on Railpage and Train-sim.com (I really didn't want the Griffith route posted onto the downloads section of Railpage and I am unable to have it removed so I can pull it from Train-sim.com

Anyway, I was looking at my Broken Hill route last night and to be honest with you I really want to complete it and release it to the Australian MSTS community as a full route rather then splitting it into like 3 or 4 separate routes.. But I just don't have much time to 3d model or try to build routes because I just have a very busy life these days "If I can find that time I need, I could get one route done" but it be the Cairns to Mareeba "Tablelands railway" first it's rather simple and an easy route to complete but I need more information regarding track diagrams (Of the full line), Plan drawings of signals, station buildings and photographs and I asked the ARHS yesterday for them and they told me I should contact QR or the Railway Workshop Museum and now I have no one as I've asked everyone and all they do is tell me one thing "Sorry, we're unable to help" QR tells me to contact the ARHS and Railway Workshop Museum for the information but they just refuse all the time "Not really sure why" I know they have the resources I need but if someone can help me with this information I'll complete the Cairns to Marreba route most likely before christmas (If I could get the information I need) but I am left alone to find whatever I can as I want the route set in the late 1960s to early 1970s

Well, I'd better stop there now as you can see my frustration
Regards, Phillip Chorusch
  woodford Chief Commissioner

What I do in a similiar situation is temporarly abandon whats holding me up and move to something I CAN do.

Just out of personel interest I have been writing a train simulator from scratch. I learned VERY early in the process that the work _____HAD______ to be compartmentised so that when I got stuck I could immediatley proceed onto some other part. Experience having shown me an answer for the problem I am facing will turn up.

A problem I knew existed right from the start is what I all the "world model problem". This is how to display on a screen an ACCURATE version of the terrain. At the start I knew nothing about cartogarphy and projections and its been a long slow but VERY interesting road. This has NOT been helped by the fact that there are NO introdutory docs on the subject, one having to jump in at the deep end. Its been now 4 years since I started this and after a lot of such previously mentioned breaks I now have a displayable world model that can be generated "on the fly" from existing 3 an 1DEM SRTM data and is accurate in distance by better than 1 in 1000, ie a route 100 kilometres long will be within plus or minus 100 metres in the sim.

woodford

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