Model Railway clubs not having public liability insurance

 
  Flatop Deputy Commissioner

Location: Some where in a Cab
We attend quite a few shows as traders.It is getting ridiculously that traders have to get their own insurance. How can clubs operate an exhibition and expect traders tocome pay for stand fees then put the cost of public liabilities on top of this. Got an email tonight about this.

Sponsored advertisement

  Hendo Deputy Commissioner

We attend quite a few shows as traders.It is getting ridiculously that traders have to get their own insurance. How can clubs operate an exhibition and expect traders tocome pay for stand fees then put the cost of public liabilities on top of this. Got an email tonight about this.
Flatop
Sounds pretty rude given traders attendance benefits the clubs through fees and higher attendance. Even if they bumped the fees, to cover the exhibition/shows public liability insurance, it would probably be cheaper than the collective cost of individual traders taking out insurance. Do they insist individual exhibitors have their own PLI? If not there is a case of double standards.


Cheers,
Hendo
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
PLI is a big problem, the hosting organization of the show must have its own PLI.

Even with that however, they cannot assume your risk as a trader or exhibitor, sensible exhibitors should either have PLI if they are a club, or be very sure that their household contents cover will insure them.

Traders are just plain crazy if they do not have a PLI policy of their own (or make damn sure their household or other business insurance has them covered).
  TheBlacksmith Chief Commissioner

Location: Ankh Morpork
PLI is a big problem, the hosting organization of the show must have its own PLI.

Even with that however, they cannot assume your risk as a trader or exhibitor, sensible exhibitors should either have PLI if they are a club, or be very sure that their household contents cover will insure them.

Traders are just plain crazy if they do not have a PLI policy of their own (or make damn sure their household or other business insurance has them covered).
Aaron
No need if you are a limited liability company.
  Kevin Martin Chief Train Controller

Location: Melbourne
PLI is a big problem, the hosting organization of the show must have its own PLI.

Even with that however, they cannot assume your risk as a trader or exhibitor, sensible exhibitors should either have PLI if they are a club, or be very sure that their household contents cover will insure them.

Traders are just plain crazy if they do not have a PLI policy of their own (or make damn sure their household or other business insurance has them covered).
No need if you are a limited liability company.
TheBlacksmith
Sounds like foolish advice to me. I guess it depends on the nature of the business, but anyone who attends customers premises to carry out work, i.e. tradies, needs to consider the fact that almost all commercial entities, wouldn't let them through the door, if they knew were uninsured.
  Showtime Chief Train Controller

Every trader that attends a market must have PL insurance.
I see a model train exhibition with traders in attendance as no different.
If your stall collapses for some unforeseen reason and squashes a small child then you will lose your home and anything else you own if you don't have the correct insurance
  TheBlacksmith Chief Commissioner

Location: Ankh Morpork
Every trader that attends a market must have PL insurance.
I see a model train exhibition with traders in attendance as no different.
If your stall collapses for some unforeseen reason and squashes a small child then you will lose your home and anything else you own if you don't have the correct insurance
Showtime
Not if the stall is owned and operated by your company and your company owns nothing.
  Poath Junction Chief Commissioner

Location: In front of a computer most of the time.
Every trader that attends a market must have PL insurance.
I see a model train exhibition with traders in attendance as no different.
If your stall collapses for some unforeseen reason and squashes a small child then you will lose your home and anything else you own if you don't have the correct insurance
Not if the stall is owned and operated by your company and your company owns nothing.
TheBlacksmith
The injured party can sue your limited liability company, they can sue the building owner, they can sue the event organiser, or they can sue an individual directly. They will sue whoever is most likely going to be found to have a liability for the injury and just as importantly they will sue whoever is most likely to one way or another be forced to pay whatever settlement is agreed or awarded. If, hypothetically, the stall you set up collapses and squishes the child you can still be personally sued (you, not the business) because you set up the stall in an unsafe manner and as such it was your personal negligence that caused said injury. Bye bye house Smile

Usual disclaimer applies: I'm not a lawyer, TheBlacksmith isn't a lawyer. If you want to save your butt (and house) don't get your legal advice from Railpage forums.
  TheBlacksmith Chief Commissioner

Location: Ankh Morpork
Every trader that attends a market must have PL insurance.
I see a model train exhibition with traders in attendance as no different.
If your stall collapses for some unforeseen reason and squashes a small child then you will lose your home and anything else you own if you don't have the correct insurance
Not if the stall is owned and operated by your company and your company owns nothing.
The injured party can sue your limited liability company, they can sue the building owner, they can sue the event organiser, or they can sue an individual directly. They will sue whoever is most likely going to be found to have a liability for the injury and just as importantly they will sue whoever is most likely to one way or another be forced to pay whatever settlement is agreed or awarded. If, hypothetically, the stall you set up collapses and squishes the child you can still be personally sued (you, not the business) because you set up the stall in an unsafe manner and as such it was your personal negligence that caused said injury. Bye bye house Smile

Usual disclaimer applies: I'm not a lawyer, TheBlacksmith isn't a lawyer. If you want to save your butt (and house) don't get your legal advice from Railpage forums.
Poath Junction
No, I am not a lawyer, and I do not ask people to accept my comments as 'legal advice', but the fact remains that unless I directly cause injury to someone, they can only sue my company, and my company has limited assets to pay any claim. So it is not Bye Bye House at all. If you want, try Googling it.

I am not suggesting that anyone attends a show without insurance cover, I am merely trying to correct the statement about the liability or otherwise of traders or exhibitors.



Frankly I find this whole issue to be an avoidance of responsibi8lity by the event organisers. They should organise insurance for the event that covers the stand holders and the exhibitors. In particular the exhibitors, who in most cases have to go to great trouble to exhibit at these shows for little or no reward. It is the organisers who have the most to gain out of the shows, without traders or exhibitors they would have no show.
  Poath Junction Chief Commissioner

Location: In front of a computer most of the time.
No need for me to google it, I understand the full ramifications of tort law.
  TheBlacksmith Chief Commissioner

Location: Ankh Morpork
No need for me to google it, I understand the full ramifications of tort law.
Poath Junction
Funny, you just said you were not a lawyer. This issue arose for me about 5 years back, and I did go to the trouble of getting paid legal advice in relation to it. I am simply telling a short version of what I was advised. But if you don't want to Google it, here is a link: https://au.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090806115213AA6e1U8
  Poath Junction Chief Commissioner

Location: In front of a computer most of the time.
One does not need to be a lawyer to understand laws. One also does not need to he a lawyer to know a link to a nobody giving advice about American law on an unmoderated yahoo.com forum is NOT, I repeat NOT, sound legal advice.

If I was trying to point score I'd go for something a bit more authoritative, and given we're both in Victoria that would be the Wrongs and Other Acts (Law of Negligence) Act 2003. http://www.legislation.vic.gov.au/domino/web_notes/ldms/pubstatbook.nsf/f932b66241ecf1b7ca256e92000e23be/edbb4dd2b6bbb604ca256e5b00214122!OpenDocument
  nscaler69 Deputy Commissioner

Location: There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots.
Has anything changed about PLI since this was discussed a couple of years ago:
http://www.railpage.com.au/f-t11366490.htm "Model Train Shows and Public Liability for Exhibitors"
  Showtime Chief Train Controller

I own a special event catering company that regularly attends agricultural shows, rodeos, car shows and special events such as Australia Day and Carols by Candlelight.
At every event I attend the promoter or organiser has their own PL policy which covers their people and their actions at the event.
I also have to provide proof of my $20M policy before I can even attend the event.
No insurance, no job.
  TheBlacksmith Chief Commissioner

Location: Ankh Morpork
I own a special event catering company that regularly attends agricultural shows, rodeos, car shows and special events such as Australia Day and Carols by Candlelight.
At every event I attend the promoter or organiser has their own PL policy which covers their people and their actions at the event.
I also have to provide proof of my $20M policy before I can even attend the event.
No insurance, no job.
Showtime
That's fine, you are earning money from doing that work, but it is not relevant to this discussion.

The issue is the people who exhibit model railway layouts and get paid nothing or a pittance, why should they have to fork out for a policy to cover themselves, when it is little more than a voluntary job. Traders may make more money, although there are some who are really only operating a small business part time.
  TheBlacksmith Chief Commissioner
<