V/Line trains pulled from tracks due to safety concerns

 
Topic moved from News by bevans on 16 Jan 2016 13:06
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
The head of VLine must now resign this entire organisation has become a farce.

V/Line trains pulled from tracks due to safety concerns

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  GeoffreyHansen Minister for Railways

Location: In a FAM sleeper
Wasn't  there an issue some years ago with the Sprinters and level crossings?
  Daryl Junior Train Controller

Location: Carrum Downs
This is due to an incident where a Vline train failed to trigger dingdongs in Dandenong.

However a few days ago Vline imposed speed restrictions on the state of the track between Dandenong and Pakenham which is disputed by Metro which continue to run trains at 115 KPH.

I wonder if the timing is a coincidence and it's a tit-for-tat where speed restrictions are retaliated by banning some Vline trains.

But I would expect a more professional relationship and don't need to make this type of comment.
  torrens5022 Junior Train Controller

I read the boom gates not going down was due to V/line having to run smaller trains due to the V/locity issue and the smaller train with less carriages (not sure how many carriages?) failed to trigger the boom gate. It would have been a V/locity and going at speed, probably similar to the sprinter issue the train just didn't trigger the boom gates due to size and speed.  I did also read they can run the old locomotive hauled trains.  V/line did take back the sprinters leased to metro on the Stony Point line to help ease the disruption of the V/locity wheel issue.  V/line tried to run as many services as possible with limited carriages and that seemed cause a much bigger problem.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

I read the boom gates not going down was due to V/line having to run smaller trains due to the V/locity issue and the smaller train with less carriages (not sure how many carriages?) failed to trigger the boom gate. It would have been a V/locity and going at speed, probably similar to the sprinter issue the train just didn't trigger the boom gates due to size and speed.  I did also read they can run the old locomotive hauled trains.  V/line did take back the sprinters leased to metro on the Stony Point line to help ease the disruption of the V/locity wheel issue.  V/line tried to run as many services as possible with limited carriages and that seemed cause a much bigger problem.
torrens5022
Current position  FACT  pre this week:

Sprinter operation  -  VLP must be minimum two car consist on VLP network, however Metro allow single Sprinter operation between Frankston and Stony Point .

There have been past issues with both Sprinters and V/Locity failing to activate track circuits and level crossing protection.  Thus the V/Line restriction on operation of single car DMU consists.

Fridays failure to activate lx protection at  Dandenong is reported as involving a multiple consist scheduled Sprinter run to Traralgon .
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

Wasn't  there an issue some years ago with the Sprinters and level crossings?
GeoffreyHansen
Yes .  All Sprinters and most V/Locity sets are fitted with an electrical exciter field grid beneath the bogie to ensure that track circuits are activated .  As last known there were still a few early era V/Locity sets which are / were restricted to multiple consist operation .   See other thread on this issue for what VLP need to do urgently to minimize disruption by re organizing its fleet to operate effectively within the operational constraints imposed by the Metro restrictions and the shortage of VLocity sets .
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
What is the actual cause behind this problem?

It is rolling stock or track or both?  You have to admit the system is now in crisis and the government needs to take control of the situation and assign external teams who can really investigate what is going on at Vline. We seem to roll from one crisis to the next.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
The head of VLine must now resign this entire organisation has become a farce.

V/Line trains pulled from tracks due to safety concerns
bevans
Agreed. Vline is treating pax with utter contempt. The Victorian Government is also treating us with contempt by not getting involved and using the old Vline is a QANGO run at arms length from Government BS. As someone else posted disruption is the new normal, you are almost surprised when a service runs to timetable without buses / WOLOs or some other disruption.

My Thursday trip on the 17.31 Down Epsom was bustified. The woman in front of me on the bus had gone into Melb from Bendigo for a Doctors appointment. Her train into 3000 had been bustified at Clarkefield due to a signal fault. Result? Despite allowing plenty of time she missed her appointment and it couldn't be re-scheduled for later in the day. Then today I returned to Melbourne (after working Friday on the VGR helping to get J549 back into steam) and it was Vline to Sunbury then Metro to SC resulting in a 25 minute delay. Not the end of the world I know but so frustrating.

If I hear the old "your safety is our number one priority" explanation one more time I am going to throw up on someone's shoes.

How can ONE incident at Dandenong lead to Vline trains refusing to run Sunbury - SC? Has there been any such incident on the Sunbury corridor?

I am at my wits end with this bloody organisation. Unlike some others I have no choice but to catch the train from Melbourne to Castlemaine - I cannot drive and a cab would be prohibitively expensive.

I and other passengers deserve better that this.

BG
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

What is the actual cause behind this problem?

It is rolling stock or track or both?  You have to admit the system is now in crisis and the government needs to take control of the situation and assign external teams who can really investigate what is going on at Vline. We seem to roll from one crisis to the next.
bevans
Daryl Kerrigan says the vibe seems to be through the spin that it is a wheel on V/Locity and rail interface issue on the sharp curvature over the North Melbourne flyover and out to Spion Kop as a severe SR has been imposed over this section .  See other posts in another thread .
  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: I was here first. You're only visiting.
May I cynically suggest that a day or so after the latest tardiness figures were released, Metro have now found a way to improve the punctuality of their services at least in the short term.

They'll get a bonus for this.
  lkernan Deputy Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
According to this article on The Age it was a V/Locity that didn't set off the level crossing, not a Sprinter this time.
http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/vline-trains-banned-from-metro-network-20160116-gm7cjd.html

Just a case of The Age not knowing a Sprinter from a V/Locity or something more?
  jakar Assistant Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
According to this article on The Age it was a V/Locity that didn't set off the level crossing, not a Sprinter this time.
http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/vline-trains-banned-from-metro-network-20160116-gm7cjd.html

Just a case of The Age not knowing a Sprinter from a V/Locity or something more?
lkernan
Who would know with journalists these days. There's not many scheduled sprinter runs down this way in Gippsland and up to yesterday the ones I've seen have still been run as a 3 unit set.

I've been doing some work at Longwarry station the last couple of days I did notice the level crossing at the down end of the platform would randomly activate for a couple of seconds before turning off again. It never once failed to activate though.

Also the level crossing on the Up side of Nar Nar Goon has been doing some funny things of late. Again it has always activated when a train was approaching, but several times I have witnessed it either coming on again with booms fully down for an extended period of time (didn't time it but it was longer than if a train had activated it) or just randomly coming on for a few seconds at a time. It would also sometimes fully reactivate a few seconds after a train has passed through after the booms were up and lights stopped. It didn't seem to matter train type it was, N set, V/locity etc.

I was in a discussion with someone from PTSV a while ago, and they made the comment that they always slow down when driving across any level crossing to a speed that they can safely check and stop for any trains approaching regardless if its a fully controlled crossing or not. At the time I dismissed it as a bit of an over reaction, but the more I see and hear I'm starting to wonder if his concerns are actually justified.

We aren't the only state and country with level crossings and sprinter/Vlocity style units, so why do we continue to have these issues? Lack of maintenance? Inferior equipment? Cost cutting with design specifications?
  Trainplanner Chief Commissioner

Location: Along the Line
Please moderators can we get the three parallel threads merged.  Metro has right back to around 2006 banned from time to time various vlocity sets for not activating LX proctection equipment.  That has been largely under the radar but with the high wheel wear issue on vlocity sets now disrupting the system this Metro situation is really exacerbating the operating situation.

Staggering isn't it. Hundreds of train services are operating daily on the regional network at up to 160km/hr without problems affecting LX operation.  We go to the Metro network on what technically should have equal standards and we have a LX issue WHICH HAS been going on for years and not resolved resulting in again another stuff up for customers.

Time to take the infrastructure and network operations back from both entities and leave them as train operators only. The network is then managed, maintained and operated as 1 system and we don't get the sorts of second rate outcomes we r currently getting from both operators in regard to infrastructure management.
  richter170 Locomotive Driver

Tomorrow's (sunday) day return train to Sale is replaced by Sprinters instead of the usual VL units due to the signal issue. 1025 from Southern Cross. Been a while since Sprinters ran that way.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
The head of VLine must now resign this entire organisation has become a farce.

V/Line trains pulled from tracks due to safety concerns
bevans

This statement is ridiculous Exclamation

You didn't even have the courtesy to mention his name.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
Time to take the infrastructure and network operations back from both entities and leave them as train operators only. The network is then managed, maintained and operated as 1 system and we don't get the sorts of second rate outcomes we r currently getting from both operators in regard to infrastructure management.
Trainplanner


Ohh...you mean like VicTrack Question
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
I went into town yesterday and as we were travelling over the viaduct at North Melbourne and as it's easy to see the rails of the other track I was looking out for inside rail wear.

Over the viaduct is fine, no inside rail wear which is easily seen by the shine that develops where the wheel flange rubs up against the rail. However using the DOWN run as an example, as the trains leave the viaduct then swing around the 40KPH curves behind those offices which abut the fence next to the track...SIGNIFICANT rail wear is evident by the highly polished inside of the rails.

If the flanges are being worn by the sharp curves between the viaduct and the Spion Kop...this is where it's happening.

However there is no wheel squeal through this section and to me as a lay-person, it seems the remedy is to fit rail greasers through this section and a tougher grade steel 'tyre' on the VLocity wheels.

To the Brenton Goldings of these pages...suck it up Exclamation

Passenger rail safety IS paramount and that message will be reinforced long after you've given up your commute.

Mike.
  emmastreet Train Controller

Location: Goulburn Valley
Normal service on the Bendigo line today (V/line website). No disruptions on the Seymour line either. Pakenham still the terminal for Gippsland services.
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
No changes to Albury services thus far and I now wonder if the n class loco's have been affected at all ?
  damooops Junior Train Controller

Location: The Revenue Raising State
G'day all.
Bendigo line was reopened today after a test run was done overnight using a push pull. 2 N class locos and 2 Vlocities in between. I'm not sure what results they would have gotten considering the N classes would have definitely operated the crossings! Shocked
Cheers all



  emmastreet Train Controller

Location: Goulburn Valley
The head of VLine must now resign this entire organisation has become a farce.

V/Line trains pulled from tracks due to safety concerns

This statement is ridiculous Exclamation

You didn't even have the courtesy to mention his name.
The Vinelander
Well if he won't resign he should be sacked. V/line just stumble from one debacle to another. "train fault", "we apologise", "make your way to the coach terminal", etc, etc. Somebody needs to take responsibility, the Minister won't, so it's left to the head of V/line. I don't know his name and see no reason why I should bother to find out.
  ParkesHub Chief Commissioner

The head of VLine must now resign this entire organisation has become a farce.

V/Line trains pulled from tracks due to safety concerns

This statement is ridiculous Exclamation

You didn't even have the courtesy to mention his name.
The Vinelander
You are being a little bit precious, Mike.

I'll answer on behalf of the OP.

The CEO is Theo Taifalos

You can add these two people on the list of terminations...David Cameron - Executive General Manager Asset Management and Judith Sturman - Executive General Manager Service Delivery

If one cares to go to LinkedIn and search the names of these three, a couple of things stand out, in my opinion. Firstly, is their moving on between employers and, secondly, their collective lack of "hands on" experience running a railway service.
  Lad_Porter Chief Commissioner

Location: Yarra Glen
This is due to an incident where a Vline train failed to trigger dingdongs in Dandenong.

However a few days ago Vline imposed speed restrictions on the state of the track between Dandenong and Pakenham which is disputed by Metro which continue to run trains at 115 KPH.

I wonder if the timing is a coincidence and it's a tit-for-tat where speed restrictions are retaliated by banning some Vline trains.

But I would expect a more professional relationship and don't need to make this type of comment.
Daryl
It is ludicrous that the two operators could set different safety standards for the same piece of track.  
The VR, for all its faults, was at least the single operator of both suburban and country services.
  Duncs Chief Commissioner

I'll answer on behalf of the OP.

The CEO is Theo Taifalos

You can add these two people on the list of terminations...David Cameron - Executive General Manager Asset Management and Judith Sturman - Executive General Manager Service Delivery

If one cares to go to LinkedIn and search the names of these three, a couple of things stand out, in my opinion. Firstly, is their moving on between employers and, secondly, their collective lack of "hands on" experience running a railway service.
I looked up the linkedin pages for these three people. Theo Taifalos appears to have a pretty reasonable background in rail administration, given that his involvement goes back to 2007 with QR. The question is whether he is “hands on” enough here. If not then he must get personally involved and micro manage his two senior executives through this crisis. It’s what I would do in his place. He can then decide the fate of these two executives… later on. But the end result must be their departure from V Line. The minister needs to get involved here as well.  

I am more concerned with these other two executives, who both seem to have rotated through a number of positions over a short space of time in recent years. The implications of that sort of rotation are obvious. I personally have no confidence in either of them.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
I looked up the linkedin pages for these three people. Theo Taifalos appears to have a pretty reasonable background in rail administration, given that his involvement goes back to 2007 with QR. The question is whether he is “hands on” enough here. If not then he must get personally involved and micro manage his two senior executives through this crisis. It’s what I would do in his place. He can then decide the fate of these two executives… later on.

I am more concerned with these other two executives, who both seem to have rotated through a number of positions over a short space of time in recent year. The implications of that sort of rotation are obvious.
Duncs

Morning @Duncs (i owe you a return phone call)

I bet neither of the two executives other than the CEO have any background in Value Chain Analysis.

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