Some possible solutions for VR's present problems

 
  Mufreight Train Controller

Location: North Ipswich
With the present shortage of Velocities to operate services particularly on the Gippsland line services perhaps VR should consider the rolling stock available from Steam rail and using this to form up two loco hauled sets.
There could be no valid reason for Metro not to allow these sets to operate normal V Line timetables which would be a more reliable and economic solution than the present bus substitution of services.
Not a complete answer but it would provide some relief for passengers and V Line.

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  Bogong Chief Commissioner

Location: Essendon Aerodrome circa 1980
That's a great idea... in theory. But while heritage rolling stock may be fast and comfy, it doesn't comply with a thousand regulations that have been introduced in recent decades.

- The doors may be 1 cm narrower than "regulations" specify, . . . so they'd be deemed non compliant.
- There may be insufficient grab bars, . . . . . so they'd be deemed non compliant.
- They may contain plastic which would be toxic if an idiot applied a ciggie lighter to it, so they'd be deemed non compliant.
- The connections between carriages may allow a certifiable moron to hurt their little finger, so they'd be deemed non compliant
- The airon systems may not be able to cool or heat the carriage in once in a century conditions, so they'd be deemed non compliant

There are hundreds of bureaucrats employed at taxpayers expense to enforce these nanny state regulations in almost every aspect of our lives.

I agree that their job appears to be entirely dedicated to making life unnecesarily difficult and unpleasant for everyone. But they are very self righteous about it and fines and/or court action are regularly thrown at any person or company that dares to defy them.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

With the present shortage of Velocities to operate services particularly on the Gippsland line services perhaps VR should consider the rolling stock available from Steam rail and using this to form up two loco hauled sets.
There could be no valid reason for Metro not to allow these sets to operate normal V Line timetables which would be a more reliable and economic solution than the present bus substitution of services.
Not a complete answer but it would provide some relief for passengers and V Line.
Mufreight
1.  VR  ceased to exist decades ago.

It is called  V/Line  since the mid 1980's  .

Won t happen  because  :

- Wooden bodied stock no power  doors .
- Wooden bodied stock limited to 80kmh so just not practical .
-  Wooden bodied stock is fine for  heritage operations, but would be a laughing stock for regular operation .
  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: Gheringhap Loop Autonomous Zone
Won't happen because:
  • Wooden bodied stock no power doors
  • Wooden bodied stock limited to 80kmh so just not practical
  • Wooden bodied stock is fine for heritage operations, but would be a laughing stock for regular operation
Kuldalai
Steamrail and 707 Ops have plenty of steel-bodied carriages... carriage attendants could manage the doors if need be.
  Mufreight Train Controller

Location: North Ipswich
Seems that there are more interested in creating obstacles than possible solutions, is A/C essential for passenger operations, desirable but essential? as for the numbers of steel bodied cars it is my understanding that there would be enough for at leas two train sets, locos if V Line runs short surely PN of Qube would have a loco or two avaliable, failing that since this is not going to be a problem that will be resolved in a matter of a few days probably Adelaide has a spare set of DMU's sitting around doing nothing now they have all their electrics in operation.
Some thought outside the square looking for possible solutions rather than obstacles might help
  randomnarwhal Locomotive Driver

Seems that there are more interested in creating obstacles than possible solutions, is A/C essential for passenger operations, desirable but essential? as for the numbers of steel bodied cars it is my understanding that there would be enough for at leas two train sets, locos if V Line runs short surely PN of Qube would have a loco or two avaliable, failing that since this is not going to be a problem that will be resolved in a matter of a few days probably Adelaide has a spare set of DMU's sitting around doing nothing now they have all their electrics in operation.
Some thought outside the square looking for possible solutions rather than obstacles might help
Mufreight
We're not interested in creating obstacles, we're just pointing out why its not feasible.
The service costs of old rolling stock would also presumably be quite high?
Aircon is deemed essential for three hour trips in 40 degree + heat by the majority of people.
SA is the wrong gauge for Geelong or Ballarat or Gippsland.
  trainbrain Chief Commissioner

SA suburban system is broad gauge, last time I looked at Geelong, Ballarat and Gippsland they were broad gauge too..................
  Contrillion Junior Train Controller

Location: Geelong, Victoria
SA suburban system is broad gauge, last time I looked at Geelong, Ballarat and Gippsland they were broad gauge too..................
trainbrain
How would they get between the two? With all the SG in between and all.
  QSB6.7 Chief Train Controller

Location: Going off the rails on a crazy train.
SA suburban system is broad gauge, last time I looked at Geelong, Ballarat and Gippsland they were broad gauge too..................
How would they get between the two? With all the SG in between and all.
Contrillion
Trucks.


But by the time a contract was agreed on, the sets loaded and moved over here, then run and made compliant the issue with V/Line would be sorted.
  Mufreight Train Controller

Location: North Ipswich
SA suburban system is broad gauge, last time I looked at Geelong, Ballarat and Gippsland they were broad gauge too..................
How would they get between the two? With all the SG in between and all.
Contrillion
Bogie exchange the same as they do to get the WA electrics to Perth and Steamrail has a number of Air Conditioned steel bodied cars, enough to make up at least one set for the Gippsland line.
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
Why are power doors deemed to be essential?
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
@Valvegear I guess it's so they can't be opened in between stations.
  Lad_Porter Chief Commissioner

Location: Yarra Glen
Could be a good idea in principle, but it assumes the co-operation of Steamrail and 707 Ops.  What would be their attitude?  How much would they charge, assuming they were agreeable?  Has anyone asked them?

Not to mention the "blue" cars up at Seymour ...... ??  SRHC may just as well hire out carriages as locos.
  bacoss Station Staff

Could it be that Gippsland region isn't as important as the big 3
perhaps Gippsland isn't marginal enough or the local politicians
don't seem to making too much noise about it
  Bogong Chief Commissioner

Location: Essendon Aerodrome circa 1980
Could it be that Gippsland region isn't as important as the big 3
perhaps Gippsland isn't marginal enough or the local politicians
don't seem to making too much noise about it
bacoss
The Libs and Nats are in competition there. While they have an agreement that they won't challenge each others sitting members, when one retires, both parties run fairly intense campaigns against each other to take the seat for their party. So that means most Gippsland politicians are on their toes, advocating for the interests of their constituents.

And Labour did hold a state seat in Gippsland until about 10 years ago, It was in the La Trobe Valley, possibly Morwell?

So there is some degree of political competition in Gippsland, which is good for its residents. It's not like some parts of Melbourne where ultra-safe seats mean neither party bothers trying.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
Imagine a week of the ex 'Spirit cars in regular service:

  • Etched Windows.
  • Graffitied toilets and washrooms, broken mirrors.
  • Etched and worse timber panelling.
  • Slashed leather seats.
  • Spew and chewing gum ground into the Axminster carpets.
  • Graffitied carriages stabled at night.
  • No disability access.

It's a fair suggestion, however it would require a team of volunteers to be available to keep the ferals under control, moreover as the cars are limited to 80KPH AFAIK, it's not a practical solution.

I recall back during the pilots strike I think it was that Seymour stock was pressed into service to build up trains, but that was before OHS and Disability access requirements.

Mike.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Somebody in Victoria got a job lot of 80 km/h speed restrictions and has applied them to just about everything.
  Lad_Porter Chief Commissioner

Location: Yarra Glen
The "Spirit" cars certainly were not limited to 80 when they ran on the SOP, so why are they so limited now - if in fact they are?  I thought the limit was for wooden bodied cars, and/or for heritage trains, but these cars would not be in a heritage train if in regular service.  

I agree that vandalism etc. could be a problem, but not insurmountabe, and it seems a shame for such flash stock to sit largely unused.  Just thinking that Steamrail and 707 Ops are not the only sources of readily available alternatives, if it came to that.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

Seems that there are more interested in creating obstacles than possible solutions, is A/C essential for passenger operations, desirable but essential? as for the numbers of steel bodied cars it is my understanding that there would be enough for at leas two train sets, locos if V Line runs short surely PN of Qube would have a loco or two avaliable, failing that since this is not going to be a problem that will be resolved in a matter of a few days probably Adelaide has a spare set of DMU's sitting around doing nothing now they have all their electrics in operation.
Some thought outside the square looking for possible solutions rather than obstacles might help
We're not interested in creating obstacles, we're just pointing out why its not feasible.
The service costs of old rolling stock would also presumably be quite high?
Aircon is deemed essential for three hour trips in 40 degree + heat by the majority of people.
SA is the wrong gauge for Geelong or Ballarat or Gippsland.
randomnarwhal
Wrong, South Australia Trans Adelaide  DMU cars are same gauge as Victorian broad gauge and could potentially be used on outer Metro services to  Melton, Bacchus Marsh  & Wyndam Vale with the provisos that  1.  Trans Adelaide has some surplus DMU 's available  2.  Trans Adelaide  bg stock is typically  wider than Victorian  passenger stock and potentially there could be clearnce issues with platform copings and trackside structures  .
  VRfan Moderator

Location: In front of my computer :-p
It's a fair suggestion, however it would require a team of volunteers to be available to keep the ferals under control, moreover as the cars are limited to 80KPH AFAIK, it's not a practical solution.
The Vinelander

The preserved S and Z cars (along with the ex SAR K cars) are permitted to travel at 115km/h. The 80km/h limit for most heritage trips with steel cars is due to a lack of TPWS on heritage locos.

The timber bodied E and W cars have a limit of 80km/h. IIRC the V cars ended their mainline days with a 60km/h limit but I could be wrong about that one.

However, as you and others have already stated there's a number of other issues around vandalism and compliance with modern requirements that would prevent them from being pushed back into regular service.
  wanabetraindrvr Junior Train Controller

loco hauled hitachis , seperate hed vans for power , guard pushes door close button, 115 kmh rated , correct air brakes and couplers, 3 a class sitting spare ???????????? just a thought
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
Imagine a week of the ex 'Spirit cars in regular service:

  • Etched Windows.
  • Graffitied toilets and washrooms, broken mirrors.
  • Etched and worse timber panelling.
  • Slashed leather seats.
  • Spew and chewing gum ground into the Axminster carpets.
  • Graffitied carriages stabled at night.
  • No disability access.
"The Vinelander"
  • .

Absolutely spot on.  The vandals would have a field day.
  Lad_Porter Chief Commissioner

Location: Yarra Glen
loco hauled hitachis , seperate hed vans for power , guard pushes door close button, 115 kmh rated , correct air brakes and couplers, 3 a class sitting spare ???????????? just a thought
wanabetraindrvr
Hitachis are/were relatively short haul suburban stock.  If going further afield you would possibly need a few other facilities, like drinking water and toilets, depending on the length of the trip.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
The "Spirit" cars certainly were not limited to 80 when they ran on the SOP, so why are they so limited now - if in fact they are?  I thought the limit was for wooden bodied cars, and/or for heritage trains, but these cars would not be in a heritage train if in regular service.  

I agree that vandalism etc. could be a problem, but not insurmountabe, and it seems a shame for such flash stock to sit largely unused.  Just thinking that Steamrail and 707 Ops are not the only sources of readily available alternatives, if it came to that.
Lad_Porter

Agreed...however as the Spirit cars are now over 78 years old, their age may also have something to do with it.

Mike.
  VRfan Moderator

Location: In front of my computer :-p
Agreed...however as the Spirit cars are now over 78 years old, their age may also have something to do with it.

Mike.
The Vinelander

Steel bodied cars (including the SOP cars) are not limited to 80km/h. It's only the wooden bodied cars that are.

Look up the V/Line network service plan addenda if you want proof.

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