Shrike Models

 
  a6et Minister for Railways

The RX class .

What is happening with that model ?
ixion has no plans to release an Rx, now or in the future.

Lindsay O'Reilly.


So what about those who have fully paid for models?  is the press release saying you will not honour those orders?
a6et
BIG-BEAR, the press release says no such thing; it does not mention the matter. We are aware of it. Payments made to Shrike Models are a contract with them, not with Ixion Models, but as modellers and manufacturers we understand the problem. We are in negotiations with the factory, and in discussion with one another; I will post more information here, and on Facebook etc when we have it.
I believe that people who know our reputations will be satisfied with that answer. That's all the comment I can make on this matter, for now.
Lindsay.
"Ixion Models"


Lindsay, the press release in some ways is a bit ambiquous regarding what is to happen with those who have fully paid for models prior to Ixion taking over the production of the 30t.
The problem also is that the 30t according to the press release will only be produced once the 32 has been sold in sufficient numbers to fund the production run of them.

Further, the press release has a basic premise that the 30t will not likely be produced for some time & is very open ended as to when it may arrive.

Sponsored advertisement

  comtrain Chief Commissioner

Location: Near Albury Wodonga
Ixion to release Shrike Models’ HO scale 30T



Ixion Model Railways Australia Pty Ltd is pleased to announce that, having come to an agreement with the new owner of the tooling, the Shrike Models HO scale NSWGR 30T Class 4-6-0 steam locomotive will now be manufactured and released as an Ixion model.



The release of the 30T will follow the Ixion Models HO scale NSWGR 32 Class, and the production run of the 30T will commence once we have sufficient income from sales of the C32 to fund the production run.



Due to rising production costs in China, and the fall in the US dollar against the Australian dollar, it will not be possible to honour Shrike Models' advertised prices for the 30T post-release; the price will rise. We are in negotiations with the factory on current production costs. More information about the new prices will be released once those negotiations have been concluded.



Ixion Models looks forward to adding the 30T to our range of locomotive models, as a clear demonstration of our commitment to modellers of Australian railways.



Chris Klein, Phil Badger and Lindsay O’Reilly.



Directors,

Ixion Model Railways Ltd (UK) and Ixion Model Railways Australia Pty Ltd.
Ixion Models
Well Lindsay I guess the members of that illustrious group of Importers at the Table of Knowledge, today, would have been pissing their pants in happiness at this turn in events, and be celebrating into the night. Or did they do that months ago at a war cabinet meeting?

We all know that Geoff was not much respected by that group, for exposing the price gouging of the Australian model market. After all their idea is gouge as much as you can, and back it up with fairy stories about size of market etc etc. Anything that lands for $50 or even $150 and sells for $500 without wholesalers or shop keepers in the middle has got to be a money tree.

Well Geoff lost his business and we the little humble modellers, lost a fair deal on at least one of our purchases. That's how the World works these days, but don't expect me to be happy about it.
Get well Geoff lets just return to model railways and let the prices rise and keep our money in our pockets. What about an O/S trip. Chasing trains in Canada sounds like a thing to do?
Cheers
Rod
  makeme Beginner

Ixion to release Shrike Models’ HO scale 30T



Ixion Model Railways Australia Pty Ltd is pleased to announce that, having come to an agreement with the new owner of the tooling, the Shrike Models HO scale NSWGR 30T Class 4-6-0 steam locomotive will now be manufactured and released as an Ixion model.



The release of the 30T will follow the Ixion Models HO scale NSWGR 32 Class, and the production run of the 30T will commence once we have sufficient income from sales of the C32 to fund the production run.



Due to rising production costs in China, and the fall in the US dollar against the Australian dollar, it will not be possible to honour Shrike Models' advertised prices for the 30T post-release; the price will rise. We are in negotiations with the factory on current production costs. More information about the new prices will be released once those negotiations have been concluded.



Ixion Models looks forward to adding the 30T to our range of locomotive models, as a clear demonstration of our commitment to modellers of Australian railways.



Chris Klein, Phil Badger and Lindsay O’Reilly.



Directors,

Ixion Model Railways Ltd (UK) and Ixion Model Railways Australia Pty Ltd.
Well Lindsay I guess the members of that illustrious group of Importers at the Table of Knowledge, today, would have been pissing their pants in happiness at this turn in events, and be celebrating into the night. Or did they do that months ago at a war cabinet meeting?

We all know that Geoff was not much respected by that group, for exposing the price gouging of the Australian model market. After all their idea is gouge as much as you can, and back it up with fairy stories about size of market etc etc. Anything that lands for $50 or even $150 and sells for $500 without wholesalers or shop keepers in the middle has got to be a money tree.

Well Geoff lost his business and we the little humble modellers, lost a fair deal on at least one of our purchases. That's how the World works these days, but don't expect me to be happy about it.
Get well Geoff lets just return to model railways and let the prices rise and keep our money in our pockets. What about an O/S trip. Chasing trains in Canada sounds like a thing to do?
Cheers
Rod
comtrain


Are you implying that the table of knowledge had anything to do with the mismanagement and failure of Shrike Models? Because this post reads like you're trying to blame everyone but Geoff who is the one responsible for Shrike Models. Maybe you have a grudge against them because they chose not to be best pals with your pal Geoff?

If you have proof of this price gouging why haven't you reported it to the ACCC? Price fixing is a highly illegal practice as you seem to know of two models that were $50 and $150 and then they colluded to raise the price to $500 you should have reported such a thing.

On the Shrike Models facebook page it says:
I can now say it. Saved the company from going down the drain: http://ixionmodels.blogspot.com.au/…/press-release-nswgr-c3… We had all sorts of dramas. Now to get the RX going.

So unless you know something about the business that the public doesn't then it sounds like Geoff certainly hasn't lost his business.
  CraigW Assistant Commissioner

Well Lindsay I guess the members of that illustrious group of Importers at the Table of Knowledge, today, would have been pissing their pants in happiness at this turn in events, and be celebrating into the night. Or did they do that months ago at a war cabinet meeting?

We all know that Geoff was not much respected by that group, for exposing the price gouging of the Australian model market. After all their idea is gouge as much as you can, and back it up with fairy stories about size of market etc etc. Anything that lands for $50 or even $150 and sells for $500 without wholesalers or shop keepers in the middle has got to be a money tree.

Well Geoff lost his business and we the little humble modellers, lost a fair deal on at least one of our purchases. That's how the World works these days, but don't expect me to be happy about it.
Get well Geoff lets just return to model railways and let the prices rise and keep our money in our pockets. What about an O/S trip. Chasing trains in Canada sounds like a thing to do?
Cheers
Rod
comtrain
I do love a good conspiracy theory, as apparently do you.

They may land a model for $150, but that is just that - the landed model. Then add the $100, 000 or so tooling costs on top and amortise that across the 1200 or so models you bring in. Add GST on the final sale price and all the other costs incurred in a business.

Do you seriously think that everyone got together and somehow conspired against Geoff?  They do not even use the same factories.

There is a lot of hard work involved in doing a model and I will and have been critical of those who make errors - ones that could and should have been avoided. But that being said, the notion that people should be altruistic in doing models and not attempt to make a good return on their money is a nonsense. That is how you grow a business. Shrike are the ones that controlled their fate, as all the other businesses do - they set their destiny in track with what they advertise, what they announce and how they announce it.

I wish Geoff well in his recovery, but in my opinion he is making a terrible mistake by announcing "on with the Rx at this stage"

Regards,

Craigw
  Lner1922 Beginner

This appears to be a classic case of over confidence. I was in at the beginning after contacting Geoff and receiving assurance that the model would be delivered in the timescale promised. To be frank I was highly suspicious and felt that Shrike were being played along by the Chinese who probably saw them as a soft touch. As events have turned out it is obvious that Geoff and his partner went into the business with the innocence of novices. I don't blame them for this cock up, I actually feel sorry for them as they appear to have been badly burned. There are lessons here for all those of us modelling Aussie prototypes, deal with people who are experienced in the business and know the pitfalls.
Brian Deasy
  railmod Chief Train Controller

Ixion to release Shrike Models’ HO scale 30T



Ixion Model Railways Australia Pty Ltd is pleased to announce that, having come to an agreement with the new owner of the tooling, the Shrike Models HO scale NSWGR 30T Class 4-6-0 steam locomotive will now be manufactured and released as an Ixion model.



The release of the 30T will follow the Ixion Models HO scale NSWGR 32 Class, and the production run of the 30T will commence once we have sufficient income from sales of the C32 to fund the production run.



Due to rising production costs in China, and the fall in the US dollar against the Australian dollar, it will not be possible to honour Shrike Models' advertised prices for the 30T post-release; the price will rise. We are in negotiations with the factory on current production costs. More information about the new prices will be released once those negotiations have been concluded.



Ixion Models looks forward to adding the 30T to our range of locomotive models, as a clear demonstration of our commitment to modellers of Australian railways.



Chris Klein, Phil Badger and Lindsay O’Reilly.



Directors,

Ixion Model Railways Ltd (UK) and Ixion Model Railways Australia Pty Ltd.
Well Lindsay I guess the members of that illustrious group of Importers at the Table of Knowledge, today, would have been pissing their pants in happiness at this turn in events, and be celebrating into the night. Or did they do that months ago at a war cabinet meeting?

We all know that Geoff was not much respected by that group, for exposing the price gouging of the Australian model market. After all their idea is gouge as much as you can, and back it up with fairy stories about size of market etc etc. Anything that lands for $50 or even $150 and sells for $500 without wholesalers or shop keepers in the middle has got to be a money tree.

Well Geoff lost his business and we the little humble modellers, lost a fair deal on at least one of our purchases. That's how the World works these days, but don't expect me to be happy about it.
Get well Geoff lets just return to model railways and let the prices rise and keep our money in our pockets. What about an O/S trip. Chasing trains in Canada sounds like a thing to do?
Cheers
Rod
comtrain
Rod,
Shrike & Ixion share the same tooling for the their tenders, in fact it was announced on both the Ixion & Shrike web sites (FB etc) that the 32 was going to b produced before the 30T, I thought this was a mutual agreement to the benefit of both of the two companies. I always took this as the 2 companies working in partnership, that being the case could this not be nothing more than 'a mate helping another mate', though it does make me wonder why Shrike did not release the 6 wheel tender version of the 30T last year because looking at their fb site they seem to imply that at least that version was complete, packed & awaiting despatch from the factory. I just hoping I'll still get my one eventually, though I do have a DJH one almost complete.
Cheers Alex
  a6et Minister for Railways

Ixion to release Shrike Models’ HO scale 30T



Ixion Model Railways Australia Pty Ltd is pleased to announce that, having come to an agreement with the new owner of the tooling, the Shrike Models HO scale NSWGR 30T Class 4-6-0 steam locomotive will now be manufactured and released as an Ixion model.



The release of the 30T will follow the Ixion Models HO scale NSWGR 32 Class, and the production run of the 30T will commence once we have sufficient income from sales of the C32 to fund the production run.



Due to rising production costs in China, and the fall in the US dollar against the Australian dollar, it will not be possible to honour Shrike Models' advertised prices for the 30T post-release; the price will rise. We are in negotiations with the factory on current production costs. More information about the new prices will be released once those negotiations have been concluded.



Ixion Models looks forward to adding the 30T to our range of locomotive models, as a clear demonstration of our commitment to modellers of Australian railways.



Chris Klein, Phil Badger and Lindsay O’Reilly.



Directors,

Ixion Model Railways Ltd (UK) and Ixion Model Railways Australia Pty Ltd.
Well Lindsay I guess the members of that illustrious group of Importers at the Table of Knowledge, today, would have been pissing their pants in happiness at this turn in events, and be celebrating into the night. Or did they do that months ago at a war cabinet meeting?

We all know that Geoff was not much respected by that group, for exposing the price gouging of the Australian model market. After all their idea is gouge as much as you can, and back it up with fairy stories about size of market etc etc. Anything that lands for $50 or even $150 and sells for $500 without wholesalers or shop keepers in the middle has got to be a money tree.

Well Geoff lost his business and we the little humble modellers, lost a fair deal on at least one of our purchases. That's how the World works these days, but don't expect me to be happy about it.
Get well Geoff lets just return to model railways and let the prices rise and keep our money in our pockets. What about an O/S trip. Chasing trains in Canada sounds like a thing to do?
Cheers
Rod
comtrain
Rod,
Shrike & Ixion share the same tooling for the their tenders, in fact it was announced on both the Ixion & Shrike web sites (FB etc) that the 32 was going to b produced before the 30T, I thought this was a mutual agreement to the benefit of both of the two companies. I always took this as the 2 companies working in partnership, that being the case could this not be nothing more than 'a mate helping another mate', though it does make me wonder why Shrike did not release the 6 wheel tender version of the 30T last year because looking at their fb site they seem to imply that at least that version was complete, packed & awaiting despatch from the factory. I just hoping I'll still get my one eventually, though I do have a DJH one almost complete.
Cheers Alex
"railmod"


Alex

For some time the announcements had the 6 wheel tender 30T coming out first, with the bogie tender version to come with the production of the Ixion 32.  Both models also shared suitable components, & if announcements in order are correct the 30T was reasonably well in advance of the 32. It was only towards the end of last year did the 32 get in front of the 30T & as to reasons?  check the X files I guess.
  Newcastle Express Chief Commissioner

I shouldn't have to say this, but NO unnecessary quoting (ie: the whole post) permitted. Makes it hard to read.

BIG-BEAR, the press release says no such thing; it does not mention the matter. We are aware of it. Payments made to Shrike Models are a contract with them, not with Ixion Models
Ixion Models

That may be so, but you agreed to take over from them, so doesn't that become your responsibility now?

As for the prices, we all know that for most items (be they model rail, bus etc or not) Australian items are dearer than similar items elsewhere.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Rod, your post is simply libelous!

Price gouging? Come on be real, Shrike didn't expose price gouging, what Shrike seems to have discovered is how to price yourself at insufficient margin to maintain a business. Even Ixion have indicated that Shrike's pricing is not sustainable moving forward, reading between the lines maybe not even pre paids in full will be honoured...

Take off the tin foil hat mate, and lose the rose coloured glasses, this doesn't look like turning out pretty.
  kingfisher Chief Train Controller

I shouldn't have to say this, but NO unnecessary quoting (ie: the whole post) permitted. Makes it hard to read.

BIG-BEAR, the press release says no such thing; it does not mention the matter. We are aware of it. Payments made to Shrike Models are a contract with them, not with Ixion Models

That may be so, but you agreed to take over from them, so doesn't that become your responsibility now?

As for the prices, we all know that for most items (be they model rail, bus etc or not) Australian items are dearer than similar items elsewhere.
Newcastle Express
The comment by BIG-BEAR and subsequent comment by a6et refers to the RX Class loco which Shrike are still going to produce.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Also Rod, further to your price gouging claims, I have to question your source, this would be kept quite secret by anyone in business - hell I work on some big dollar contract sales and I am not privy to the real cost of anything in the catalogue. That aside, I think I have posted before, I once tricked (and it wasn't easy to do either) one of the manufacturers into 'letting slip' a landed cost of $65 which I now presume to have been USD, and this was in the AUD295 retail period. I am not sure if the $65 price was only based on 'from squirt to ship' or if shipping and tooling were amortized into this, I suspect the price reflected only the production run cost, without the other costs included.

Retail has certainly increased, no one would dispute that, but I find it extraordinarily difficult to accept that manufacturing cost has come down. On that basis I am calling bollocks on your claims.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Alex, I am pleased someone else remembers these 'packed' models! I posted about them a page or two ago and didn't recieve a 'viable' explanation.
  BIG-BEAR Chief Train Controller

Interesting to see on shrike models Facebook site . Company saved , now to focus on the Rx class loco .

I don't think so .

Ixion models have made it clear that the 30T NSW loco project are still Shrike model customers .

The Shrike model customers will need to decide if they will wait longer for there model and hope that the soon to be released Ixion model sells . To see if  the NSW  30t project goes into production . They will also need to decide if they wish to pay more for there NSW 30T .

The more people going for a refund on the NSW 30 t will only hurt Shrike models and the Rx class project.

The Rx class customers will have to decide to stay and hope that the project continues without price rises and the same trouble with the NSW 30t  .  I don't think  another company would take over the RX class project if Shrike models gets into trouble again .

If there is a rush for refunds on both projects then Shrike models is where ????

I hope the Rx class goes ahead but I don't think so .
  railmod Chief Train Controller

Alex, I am pleased someone else remembers these 'packed' models! I posted about them a page or two ago and didn't recieve a 'viable' explanation.
Aaron
Aaron, only thing I can think of is either they where packed & then when some where tested an issue may have arisen (eg. low pulling capacity) or they where packed & awaiting the bogie tenders - unfortunately all speculation.
  Albert Chief Commissioner

No matter how you slice it, Ixion have taken a hit for this. Even if the tooling was transferred for a token amount, the production costs will be all on Ixion with no money from pre-orders. Hence the waiting for enough profit from the 32 before the 30T goes into production.

I see Ixion honoring pre-orders but tacking on a price rise to cover production costs. That is why they are talking to the factory to hammer out a deal for production. Would go a way to explaining the "packed" models. They are sitting at the factory awaiting payment to release them?

I feel for those that have pre-ordered. I suspect Shrike is out of money and the only way out for the customer is to suck a price rise or loose all money paid for the 30T.

Just my thoughts.
  kingfisher Chief Train Controller

No matter how you slice it, Ixion have taken a hit for this. Even if the tooling was transferred for a token amount, the production costs will be all on Ixion with no money from pre-orders. Hence the waiting for enough profit from the 32 before the 30T goes into production.

I see Ixion honoring pre-orders but tacking on a price rise to cover production costs. That is why they are talking to the factory to hammer out a deal for production. Would go a way to explaining the "packed" models. They are sitting at the factory awaiting payment to release them?

I feel for those that have pre-ordered. I suspect Shrike is out of money and the only way out for the customer is to suck a price rise or loose all money paid for the 30T.

Just my thoughts.
Albert
One thing is for sure and that is that the pricing structure for the model that one contributor to this thread has continually harped on about couldn't be sustained in the long run.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Railmod, that is certainly what we were told, but as I mentioned earlier, I can tell you for sure that is not how production especially in China works. All of the cost of those models will have to be paid for (that is assuming they even exist), then any modifications and finally the cost of the new run would have to be paid before anyone sees a model. No company, especially not a first time start up could afford to pulp an entire project and lose all that investment. Simply I now actually state this must be either a lie or the greatest engineering misunderstanding ever.

We are talking about serious production here, hundreds of pieces minimum, possibly even a thousand minimum. We're talking chassis complete, motored, wired, body squirts, assembly, painting, box design, box manufacture, foam/plastic packaging design, fit and production, packing ready for shipment. FROM THAT STATE YOU DO NOT GO TO NOTHING!!
  kingfisher Chief Train Controller

Railmod, that is certainly what we were told, but as I mentioned earlier, I can tell you for sure that is not how production especially in China works. All of the cost of those models will have to be paid for (that is assuming they even exist), then any modifications and finally the cost of the new run would have to be paid before anyone sees a model. No company, especially not a first time start up could afford to pulp an entire project and lose all that investment. Simply I now actually state this must be either a lie or the greatest engineering misunderstanding ever.

We are talking about serious production here, hundreds of pieces minimum, possibly even a thousand minimum. We're talking chassis complete, motored, wired, body squirts, assembly, painting, box design, box manufacture, foam/plastic packaging design, fit and production, packing ready for shipment. FROM THAT STATE YOU DO NOT GO TO NOTHING!!
Aaron
You say that no company especially a first time start up could afford to pulp an entire project but isn't that exactly what happened to Ixion with their first project in 2008 with their N Gauge Manor Locomotive for the British market that was produced to the wrong scale. The problem was not discovered until after models had been shipped to customers. I believe the model was completely retooled at Ixion's expense.
  comtrain Chief Commissioner

Location: Near Albury Wodonga
Just a general reply(for once)

I know Geoff pretty well, and despite his rough veneer, and his absolute unmitigated enthusiasm for his model railway hobby, which can be seen as a negative by his business partners, because he just would not shut up Smile

I have not seen any reason to doubt his sincerity and that he is honestly trying to produce models at the lowest price possible.

I know that he had a certain amount of money available, namely his personal accounts and his Superannuation which amounted to a huge sum, with plenty to cover the contract price of the models.

I helped him to make the decision to take on partners, and was pleased to see him take on Phill Badger to manage the production and liaise with the factory.

And so I think I know that my loyalty to Geoff and trust in him is justified.

Soon after it was announced by Geoff, that Phill was on board , I heard from Phill that Ixion were also going to branch into NSW Steam Locomotive production in China.

It seems to me that if the money was there and the factory was good enough, then Geoff shares any blame with Phill Badger of the Ixion partnership for the failure.

Again loyalty can get one into trouble, and until proved otherwise, I will not be running away from a friendship of many years just because of the Railpage Australia™ members who may not be  so ethical.

As far as price gouging is concerned, does any body really believe that today's business standards are both ethical and collusion is not common practice?

All the car manufacturers raise their prices when ever they want. Japan screams our low dollar is causing them to raise prices and they want tariffs adjusted, whilst the Australian companies claiming 98% Aus content raise their prices to match the Jap. imports for no other reason than greed?

Petrol Producing Companies raise prices by reducing output to keep prices high, or because of low Aussie dollar but take months to drop them, usually only for a few days before the next rise Somewhere on the web, I saw the price of oil was last $30 a barrel and retailed for $0.70 a liter Although it has been selling for $30 a barrel for a few months, we are still seeing $1.12 for diesel and a $1.14 for ULP here. Did hear on the radio it spot priced at $0.90 Diesel in Albury yesterday after the Independents dropped their prices.

An airline employee friend tells me that a shopping basket in New Zealand from the Supermarket is about half the price in Australia. A lot of the stuff comes from Australia!  My brother who returned from England also said food is cheaper there than Australia. Does anybody think Woolworths and Coles don't talk to each other? Duopoly not??

I am privy to private chats between people and we even have a forum of model railway folk, where we can keep in touch with what is going on.  The table of knowledge meet once or week loosely, and a lot of stuff gets returned to our group. I know price increases are talked about before they happen, But if anybody want to throw conspiracy theories around, you are more than welcome to keep your blinkers on. Actually a lot of conspiracies have been proved true and were simply put in place to debunk the public's ideas of what is really going on. A TV program in the last few years was devoted to that.

Yes my thoughts only, but if Tom's mate who tells the story about how much an original run NR costs, wants to reply, its up to him. However many have heard the same story. T.I.K may prod your memory? Smile

Aaron,
GST at 10%  plus freight spread over 2000 or whatever units makes little difference. My understanding of the cost of landing the 30T was supposed to include all R&D and design work as well as the molds. I was also given a rerun price which was a lot lower. And I cannot give those out, because it seems like that is Ixion business today.

We should all be sad that an Aussie battler may have bit the dust. I understand he is not well, and that caused the melt down. Whether Ixion are bailing the model out, or the owner out are yet to be seen. But I know Geoff could end up without a home and without Superannuation, if Ixion have not paid a fair price for the model. You guys do seem cool with that?

Rod Young
  railmod Chief Train Controller

Railmod, that is certainly what we were told, but as I mentioned earlier, I can tell you for sure that is not how production especially in China works. All of the cost of those models will have to be paid for (that is assuming they even exist), then any modifications and finally the cost of the new run would have to be paid before anyone sees a model. No company, especially not a first time start up could afford to pulp an entire project and lose all that investment. Simply I now actually state this must be either a lie or the greatest engineering misunderstanding ever.

We are talking about serious production here, hundreds of pieces minimum, possibly even a thousand minimum. We're talking chassis complete, motored, wired, body squirts, assembly, painting, box design, box manufacture, foam/plastic packaging design, fit and production, packing ready for shipment. FROM THAT STATE YOU DO NOT GO TO NOTHING!!
Aaron
Aaron, sorry if I implied a re-production of the model, I never meant to infer that, rather that there where some models, already paid for, at the factory awaiting despatch (probably the 6 wheel tender version) - I think that Geoff Hope was telling people at the Liverpool exhibition last year that he had paid for the production run. My understanding when considering Shrike's Early Ads, is that they where to release the 6 wheel tender first and then after Ixion's 32 was ready for production they where then to use Ixion's bogie tender to make the bogie tendered version of the 30T (which happens to be the version I have on pre-pay). As for companies absorbing (to some degree) re-productrion costs, if I remember correctly wasn't the first pre-production version of the Trainorama 32 plastic boilered and then re-engineered in diecast as it had a weight issue, I think that Trainorama absorbed most of the extra cost associated with that. I must admit I am surprised that the 30T designers opted for a plastic boiler
  ianadunn Locomotive Fireman

comtrain
As a regular participant in the so-called TOK luncheons, I can categorically state the NONE of the several importers who attend on a regular or occasional basis EVER discusses the specifics of finance of their respective models. As consumers of product, participants do, naturally, discuss the generalities of the ever increasing cost of making models in China and bringing them to market in Australia, but only in terms of what information is available to the general public via the internet. Rod Young's source is either deliberately feeding him misinformation , or simply trying to appear to have knowledge he doesn't have.

As a by-the-by, I have fully paid for a Shrike 30T, so I am just "another Aussie battler", too, wondering what's happened to my hard-earned..
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Rod no, you're just wrong. The landed price you refer to includes all costs amortized into that? You really mean that? So your ethical friend will have no need to pay for tooling for second runs? He won't alter his return on investment in subsequent runs? Okay, I'll buy a second production run model which without tooling amortization in the cost should land for what? $25? So they'll be selling for under $100 at retail then? Um no.
  comtrain Chief Commissioner

Location: Near Albury Wodonga
Rod no, you're just wrong. The landed price you refer to includes all costs amortized into that? You really mean that? So your ethical friend will have no need to pay for tooling for second runs? He won't alter his return on investment in subsequent runs? Okay, I'll buy a second production run model which without tooling amortization in the cost should land for what? $25? So they'll be selling for under $100 at retail then? Um no.
Aaron
Aaron
I am pretty certain, that was not what I ( he) was saying. As a better example John Eassie openly said, from very early days, the first run paid for tooling and other development costs and when sold out, returned his desired profit.
The first rerun then allowed him to create a wholesale price for retailers  to give them a margin Thus keeping the release price the same, and his margin the same as well.
It was my understanding Shrike would have made a fair profit and any reruns would have turned needed funds back into developing new models.

Rod
  comtrain Chief Commissioner

Location: Near Albury Wodonga
Rod no, you're just wrong. The landed price you refer to includes all costs amortized into that? You really mean that? So your ethical friend will have no need to pay for tooling for second runs? He won't alter his return on investment in subsequent runs? Okay, I'll buy a second production run model which without tooling amortization in the cost should land for what? $25? So they'll be selling for under $100 at retail then? Um no.
Aaron
The First run Nr was a long time ago. So my guess is that the $25 you mentioned might barely buy wheels couplers and a box these days. I suggested that an end price today of over $600 seemed to be saying $100 or $200?  on today's prices.  We have minds and sometimes we take a bit of information and then extend it to its new value. Ixion will hold their unit cost pretty closely. Only another manufacturer is going to know exactly what today's figures are. Geoff seemed pretty convinced he could produce a $400 plus engine
Rod
  Ixion Models Station Master

May I be permitted to set the record straight on some issues discussed here?

1. There has been no collusion between Shrike and Ixion; Phil Badger is a Director and one-third owner of Ixion Model railways, with myself and our friend Chris Klein form the UK. He was Technical Advisor to Shrike's 30T; effectively, a consultant. He was NEVER a "partner" in Shrike Models as Geoff Hope so often stated in his posts.

2. Ixion Models has not acquired the 30T tooling from Shrike Models. As I clearly stated in the press release, we acquired it from its new owner. That is a confidential business arrangement that I will not discuss.

3. Ixion is not obligated to honour the pre-release sales. Any monies paid to Shrike Models constituted a contract with them, not with us. If thee are, say, 150 pre-sales, for Ixion to supply them to those customers, including postage, even at Shrike's original pricing, is asking us to take a hit of 150 x $435, an amount totalling $65,250. This is totally unreasonable; we are a business, not a charity. Nevertheless, we are modellers, and we feel the pain of people who stand to lose very significant amounts of money. One gentleman has prepaid for six locomotives. We are in discussions with the factory about production costs, and what is still owing on the tooling. When these negotiations are concluded, we will make our comment on this matter, and not before. We are aware of the issue.

4. I am deeply upset at any suggestion that model railway manufacturers are ripping off customers; so offensively called "price gouging" above. Ixion's accounts are a matter of public record in the UK. For the princely sum of one pound you can view them at the Companies House website - as you can those of Hornby, Dapol, Bachmann etc. Ixion was registered in the UK as a company (Company No. 6350980) in 2007. Since then, we have made and sold over 5500 locomotives and railcars in three scales (these figures do not include the HO scale C32). So far, Ixion has not returned a single cent to its owners, neither in profit, nor for repaying the Director's loans which were our establishing capital. Again, feel free to check our audited accounts. Every penny we make has so far been sunk into producing the next model. We love it, and are having tremendous fun. But a get-rich-quick scheme? You have to be joking. John Eassie told the truth when he said the first run pays for the cost of production; only when there's a second run is there any profit. I would say to the critics and anonymous online snipers: if making model trains is such a money tree, why aren't you doing it? Remortgage your house, pick a prototype, and take the multi-hundred-thousand-dollar gamble that people will buy it. Phil and Chris and I did. The fact that after 31 years working in schools, I still have to go to work every day may give you a hint as to how that has played out so far.

5. Ixion wishes Geoff Hope well; as he has bravely stated on his Facebook page, he has had significant personal life issues. He has done what he thought best by his customers, given the situation he was in. I applaud his courage in what for him is a difficult  time. If you have no compassion for the man, at least respect his need to deal with issues as his circumstances allow. Disparaging comments on his character or intentions are not worthy of this forum. There but by the Grace of God go Thou. At the very least, respect his right not to be slandered and pilloried online by people who are making things up to fill the gaps in the little they know of the actual circumstances. Shame, gentlemen.

6. When released, the 30T will cost more than the price Shrike Models set. Ixion set the retail price of the C32 at $595, Shrike set the C30T at $460. We are still in business. I will not elaborate. The 32 Class production run will commence after Chinese New Year, delivery expected in April. The 30T will follow as soon as we have sufficient cash in the bank to fund it. If you want a 30T in 2016, you way you can absolutely guarantee it is to buy a 32. Or lots of 32s.

I apologise for the length of this post. I hope it is not simply dismissed as a 'rant'. But the Ixion Directors have built a company in which we have set the highest ethical standards for ourselves. It would be nice to know that others share our values.

Lindsay O'Reilly.

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