Arrium To Supply New Rail for ARTC Rerailing in South Australia

 
Topic moved from News by bevans on 09 Mar 2016 14:35
  Trainplanner Chief Commissioner

Location: Along the Line
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-03-09/arrium-rescue-package-urgent-matter/7231742

Assume this is continued replacement of worn 47kg/m rail with 60kg/m

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  Duncs Chief Commissioner

One would expect so. But it depends on the capacity of the concrete sleepers. If they are the originals from the 1970's then that may not be possible. In which case either 50kg or perhaps 53 kg will be used instead. Either would be a welcome upgrade from the old 47 kg.
  Trainplanner Chief Commissioner

Location: Along the Line
Thanks Duncs.   To the very best of my knowledge I'm 99% certain that Australian National when concrete sleepering the Trans and other mainlines specified a capability to accommodate 60kg/m rail.  I'm pretty sure 60kg/m rail was used for rerailing portions of the Crystal Brook to Tarcoola section to accommodate the sadly short lived iron ore traffic.   Even so the progressing rerailing of the entire East - West main to Kalgoorlie is needed as the existing 47kg/m rail is at the end of its life and increased rates of rail flws have been detected for a number of years now.   Given the nature of the high speed intermodal and other traffic the 47kg/m rail has stood up very well since it was laid around 1968 onwards.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Excellent outcome for all parties.
  x31 Chief Commissioner

Location: gallifrey
Great news.
  Pressman Spirit of the Vine

Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me
Excellent outcome for all parties.
RTT_Rules

Is it really an excellent outcome?


It's one token contract (if Arrium win the contract!) SA Treasurer Tom Koutsantonis said the upgrade equated to an estimated $80 million of rail, "which can be smelted and provided by Arrium should it win the contract".


And if Arrium wins it, what happens when the contract is completed? Will the works be back in the same position as now?
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Sounds like Turnbull spin to me.

Funny how one learns the error of one's ways:

'South Australia is the birthplace of Australia's steel industry'.

The birthplace of Australia's steel industry was in NSW and Whyalla did not produce steel until around 1938 with Lithgow around 1900, Newcastle in 1915 and Port Kembla in 1921 preceding it.

How much per tonne is, say, 60 kg/m rail.
  apw5910 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Location: Location.
How much per tonne is, say, 60 kg/m rail.
YM-Mundrabilla
How many metres of it do you want? A metric tonne of it is 16.67m.
  Pressman Spirit of the Vine

Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me
Sounds like Turnbull spin to me.
YM-Mundrabilla
From the same quoted article ........

But Scott Martin from the Australian Workers' Union said Mr Turnbull's announcement was nothing but a "bit of tokenism" to ease pressure on the local Liberal Member Rowan Ramsey.
"I think it's more about politics than it is about announcements to help the general community of Whyalla or the steelworks as a whole," he said.


Interestingly Turnbull is tonight having a few drinks in a pub in the liberal held electorate of Hindmarsh (in Adelaide)

One begins to wonder if this trip to SA is more about electioneering than providing assistance to struggling industry
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
How much per tonne is, say, 60 kg/m rail.
How many metres of it do you want? A metric tonne of it is 16.67m.
apw5910
I agree with the 16.67 metres/tonne.

I just want to work out how many km I will get for $80 million, as being of little (no!) faith I would just like to know how many kilometres of track one could/should be able to rerail with $80 million worth of rail and how long this tonnage of rail will sustain the steelworks.

Sorry, but I don't trust any of them...................
  Trainplanner Chief Commissioner

Location: Along the Line
I'll be totally selfish and say my interest is seeing the rerailing going ahead.  One would hope it helps Arrium, its workers and community but nonetheless the corridor needs rerailing if its going to continue to handle the very high mode share rail gets on this corridor
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
One begins to wonder if this trip to SA is more about electioneering than providing assistance to struggling industry
Pressman
My information is that it's all too late for Whyalla with or without this contract...

There seems to be a lot of Commonwealth money thrown at SA recently - the "Defence hub of the Nation" etc.
  donttellmywife Chief Commissioner

Location: Antofagasta
Excellent outcome for all parties.

Is it really an excellent outcome?


It's one token contract (if Arrium win the contract!) SA Treasurer Tom Koutsantonis said the upgrade equated to an estimated $80 million of rail, "which can be smelted and provided by Arrium should it win the contract".


And if Arrium wins it, what happens when the contract is completed? Will the works be back in the same position as now?
Pressman
I suspect the request for tender is going to have words in it along the lines of "rail must be delivered to a siding that is located within the perimeter of a certain steelworks in Whyalla; and it must be regularly stamped with "onesteel".  

Which, while the tender will be completely open, might put Baosteel/Posco/Arcelor Mittal/Nippon Steel and the like, at a mild disadvantage .

A steel mill with an $80 million contract is better off than a steel mill without an $80 million contract, by about $80 million.  That might buy the Whyalla operations (versus the company) enough time to get themselves sorted out.
  Pressman Spirit of the Vine

Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me
One begins to wonder if this trip to SA is more about electioneering than providing assistance to struggling industry
My information is that it's all too late for Whyalla with or without this contract...

There seems to be a lot of Commonwealth money thrown at SA recently - the "Defence hub of the Nation" etc.
don_dunstan
"Defence Hub of the Nation" ....... money for some agency to employ government workers............... when what is really needed is secure work for our ship building, there is still NO promise of any involvement for ASC with the new subs.
ASC will soon be laying off very experienced workers because work loads are running out....... They need some contracts finalised right Now!       not in "a few years"
  M636C Minister for Railways

"Defence Hub of the Nation" ....... money for some agency to employ government workers............... when what is really needed is secure work for our ship building, there is still NO promise of any involvement for ASC with the new subs.
ASC will soon be laying off very experienced workers because work loads are running out....... They need some contracts finalised right Now!       not in "a few years"
"Pressman


Why are ASC laying off workers when they haven't started assembly of the third DDG?

The contract price left enough money in the budget for a fourth ship.

Now we have one ship in the water, one under construction, the project is two years late and the money that would have built the fourth ship is spent and not one is sailing yet....

And ASC say they need the promise of more money or they'll lay people off?

These people would go bust running any sort of commercial enterprise and are just using blackmail to get more of my tax dollars to spend in a manner that suits them.

M636C
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Adelaide has always had a significant hold over the Federal Government. This goes back to the formation of Australian National when the Head Office was moved from Melbourne to Adelaide. This has since been followed by the Submarine Corporation, ARTC, an inordinate slice of Pacific National (now being wound down) and the National Rail Regulator.

Arguably some of these are/were well placed like ARTC but others are less so.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
M636C: Sophie Mirabella is a director at ASC, perhaps she can answer some of your questions about the way it's being run presently? However she won't there for much longer: She's been given pre-selection by the Liberals to run again for the seat of Indi (the seat she lost at the last election) she will be required to quit before the election.

Talking in general about these government funded projects, it's becoming a bit like the United States where federal money becomes a reward for political favours - particularly with military bases, ship construction, weapons systems manufacture etc.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland


Why are ASC laying off workers when they haven't started assembly of the third DDG?

The contract price left enough money in the budget for a fourth ship.

Now we have one ship in the water, one under construction, the project is two years late and the money that would have built the fourth ship is spent and not one is sailing yet....

And ASC say they need the promise of more money or they'll lay people off?

These people would go bust running any sort of commercial enterprise and are just using blackmail to get more of my tax dollars to spend in a manner that suits them.

M636C
M636C
I worked on this AWD project back In 2009, the project was a disaster from the beginning !

So many poor decisions made by top people working In the Ministry of Defence, many political and In conflict of Interest.

Project given to ASC, who had no experience and capacity to manage the construction of warships.

ASC Is or was fully owned by the Commonwealth Government.

1st draft ship drawings purchased by ASC from Navantia, Because they were cheaper (but turned out to be full of holes)

ASC hangs up the white flag, when the project gets way over their head, The Commonwealth
Government shares the ship building work around to other yards at BAE Systems Williamstown and Forgacs Tomago, on shonky subcontract agreements.

An unworkable relationship between BAE Systems, ASC, Navanitia and Commonwealth Ministry of Defence, blame shifting going round and round In circles, while the project bleeds money and time seclude.

Ship block 107 was so f#@ked up, the keel was so out of wake because of distortion, engine foundations were all warped.
Block 109 had many of the same Issues, but not as bad.  

And they are going to give a multi Billion submarine project to ASC ?

What does Australia need submarines or anyway ? they don't even have enough submarine personnel to crew the 2 operational submarines the NAVY has now.
  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: North Haverbrook; where the monorail is king!
These people would go bust running any sort of commercial enterprise and are just using blackmail to get more of my tax dollars to spend in a manner that suits them.
M636C
And sadly it looks like propping up ASC will lead to actual commercial enterprises losing significant work too - like the new Armidale class replacement contract that has now been awarded (without any competition) to ASC instead of being offered to the other Australian shipbuilders like Austal and BAE (formerly Tenix) in Williamstown.
Good article on it here: http://johnmenadue.com/blog/?p=4358

As the blog post says... Williamstown built the ANZAC class frigates on time and on budget. ASC has demonstrated neither such qualities, yet it still gets the jobs...

This goes back to the formation of Australian National when the Head Office was moved from Melbourne to Adelaide. This has since been followed by the Submarine Corporation, ARTC, an inordinate slice of Pacific National (now being wound down) and the National Rail Regulator. Arguably some of these are/were well placed like ARTC but others are less so.
YM-Mundrabilla
PacNat I can understand, given its National Rail heritage. Same goes for ARTC. ONRSR makes sense because it puts them closer to ARTC, GWA and the like. ASC was always a political sop.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
PacNat I can understand, given its National Rail heritage. Same goes for ARTC. ONRSR makes sense because it puts them closer to ARTC, GWA and the like. ASC was always a political sop.
LancedDendrite
Don't forget that a very large slice of PN (ex NR) was made up of FreightCorp.
The Safety Regulator being near ARTC may have benefits bit these seem minuscule when compared with the real players in the other states. GWA in Adelaide makes sense but cannot agree that GWA should have any influence on the Regulator's location. I put GWA in the same basket as the submarine mob in this regard.

At least ARTC is reasonably centrally located when you take its network into account.
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
AFR this morning (paper edition, I don't have a link sorry) says that this will be for approx. 600km of track.  Equates to approx. $130k/km.  Does that make sense?
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
And stumbled across the official press release:

http://www.pm.gov.au/media/2016-03-09/australian-rail-track-corporation-deliver-significant-rail-upgrade


Australian Rail Track Corporation to deliver significant rail upgrade

09 March 2016

The Prime Minister and John Fullerton, CEO of the Australian Rail Track Corporation (ARTC), today announced that the ARTC will fast track a major upgrade to the east-west national rail network.

The upgrade will involve 1200 kilometres of rail replacement between Adelaide and Tarcoola, and will deliver a substantial boost to freight productivity in South Australia and the national freight network.

The ARTC will partner with Arrium Steel to deliver the upgrade, substantially boosting demand for steel production at the Whyalla facility.

The upgrade will replace decades old rail with stronger steel, weighing 60kg per metre compared to the current 47kg per metre.

The stronger tracks will enable axle weight to increase from 23 tonne to 25 tonne at 80 kms per hour.

This means that a heavier freight load will be able to be carried and faster track speed, delivering a significant boost in productivity to the network.
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
How re-usable would this rail be for say regional rail usage?
  Trainplanner Chief Commissioner

Location: Along the Line
That rail as mentioned previously is worn out. It's carried a lot of high speed high axle load traffic and there has been an increase in rail flaws being detected for some years
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
My initial feelings were optimistic i.e. this makes good sense using locally made product, throwing Arrium a bit a much needed lifeline (albeit temporary) and rail getting some much needed investment. From memory the re-railing of parts of the network was identified in the recent IA priority listing as a 5-10 year option.

Unfortunately then the cynic in me kicked in........

The Feds desperately want to sell ARTC. The non coal side of the business would be a dodgy business case and it is well know access revenues do not cover long term asset replacement.

So what better idea than to beef up the network at the taxpayers’ expense, then quickly offload the business to our mates in the financial sector and let them reap the benefits.

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