This morning's 9.32 Down to Shepparton

 
  Duncs Chief Commissioner

I noticed this morning's 9.32 down to Shepparton from SCS was a 5 car N set plus a power van. Total of 6 cars.
Being hauled by an N class loco. Any reason for a large N set with a power van?

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  712M Chief Commissioner

This service is normally rostered on as a VN (5 car) set, assuming the rollingstock is available. On extremely rare occasions, H sets have ended up on this run when there have been no N sets available.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

Yet another example of wasteful VLP train running .   A 4 N is more than enough for the am Dn / Midday Up and Midday Down and PM Up Shepps, but VLP run them with 5 car sets as they are too lazy to run the service efficiently .  Over 250 business weekdays a year adds up to a lot of wasted $ in extra carriage maintenance kms and  fuel costs .  But VLP Operational Management doesnt care, and PTV has more important fish to fry .
  SamTheMan79 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Geelong
Yet another example of wasteful VLP train running .   A 4 N is more than enough for the am Dn / Midday Up and Midday Down and PM Up Shepps, but VLP run them with 5 car sets as they are too lazy to run the service efficiently .  Over 250 business weekdays a year adds up to a lot of wasted $ in extra carriage maintenance kms and  fuel costs .  But VLP Operational Management doesnt care, and PTV has more important fish to fry .
kuldalai
And this is the exact reason why if V/Line were to add an additional 4th car to some V/Locity sets that I highly doubt they'd be able to effectively and efficiently run different consists.
  woodford Chief Commissioner

I noticed this morning's 9.32 down to Shepparton from SCS was a 5 car N set plus a power van. Total of 6 cars.
Being hauled by an N class loco. Any reason for a large N set with a power van?
Duncs
Anyway back on topic.........

I do not know if this is the case now but 2 or 3 years ago, I asked (at different times) the Question "Why do some VN sets have a power car and others do not?". The question was directed to a driver and two maintence staff at Southern Cross all answered with roughly the same answer.

They stated that some of the VN sets would not work with the loco's HEP set and these particular sets were provided with power cars. As an ex complex systems technician I found this difficult to understand. Its probably another indication on how stretched VLine's resouces are that the maintence people have not got enough time to trace 4 wires through the cars. Mind this sort of thing in these circumstances (Note 1) can be a REAL PAIN.

Note 1: Wiring in conduits on items 30 years old that has had patch up maintenence done on it for quite a few years.

woodford
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
Yet another example of wasteful VLP train running .   A 4 N is more than enough for the am Dn / Midday Up and Midday Down and PM Up Shepps, but VLP run them with 5 car sets as they are too lazy to run the service efficiently .  Over 250 business weekdays a year adds up to a lot of wasted $ in extra carriage maintenance kms and  fuel costs .  But VLP Operational Management doesnt care, and PTV has more important fish to fry .
kuldalai
Train capacity according to anticipated demand Shocked

That wouldn't go down well in any of the Overland threads Razz
  woodford Chief Commissioner

Yet another example of wasteful VLP train running .   A 4 N is more than enough for the am Dn / Midday Up and Midday Down and PM Up Shepps, but VLP run them with 5 car sets as they are too lazy to run the service efficiently .  Over 250 business weekdays a year adds up to a lot of wasted $ in extra carriage maintenance kms and  fuel costs .  But VLP Operational Management doesnt care, and PTV has more important fish to fry .
kuldalai
For what Its worth I have traveled to Melbourne on the Morning train from Shep twice, both times it was a 4 car set and it would have been 2/3rds full at Shep. The train usually gets a good number from the Echuca bus at Murchison, and there were people standing from Seymour onwards.
From my limited experience its not a little used train.

My I say also say that the N series cars are one of THE MOST UNCOMFORTABLE cars to stand in for a couple of hours, so a set needs a bit of breathing space.

I am also somewhat wary of little used service remarks, because one gets these constantly about the Albury service, but from my experience from much travel on the morning Melbourne bound and the evening Albury bound most of the seats will be occupied, even at Benalla.

woodford
  Duncs Chief Commissioner

I appreciate Woodford's post as that clears up the mystery of the power van being used. Building carriages is not a difficult task, and there are various facilities available to do so. High time some new carriages were built in here Victoria, with the following features:

  • Suspension for a comfortable 140 kph running on class 1 track. So they can easily run at 130kph.
  • All modern facilities such as wi fi etc..
  • Buffet car or food trolley. Plus tray tables.
  • 2 X 2 seating, with 60 seats per carriage so 15 rows of seats
  • Appropriate facilities for disabled people
  • Storage section for bikes and luggage etc..
  • Overhead racks for smaller bags
  • Underfloor batteries with 5 -  6 hours of storage capacity, powered by HEP and then by motion driven alternators when the carriage is moving. So no heavy diesel alternators.
  • If possible, solar panels to generate electricity on the roof of each carriage.
  • Gross weight of 40 tons, so lighter than an N carriage.
  • Assuming 15 X 5 car sets as the basic package, with options for 6 - 8 cars as required.


That should do the job nicely

Duncs
  woodford Chief Commissioner

Post script, I have also seen the Shep Morning train at Seymour plenty of times, while waiting for the 0915 Seymour (Note 1), but have never considered getting on it as the unreserved seat car is usually packed.. It has puzzled me why so many say the service is little used.

Note 1: In order to get a car park at Seymour one needs usually to get to Seymour before 0800 otherwise one ends up in Goulburn st and a 400metre walk t the station.

woodford
  woodford Chief Commissioner

I appreciate Woodford's post as that clears up the mystery of the power van being used. Building carriages is not a difficult task, and there are various facilities available to do so. High time some new carriages were built in here Victoria, with the following features:

  • Suspension for a comfortable 140 kph running on class 1 track. So they can easily run at 130kph.
  • All modern facilities such as wi fi etc..
  • Buffet car or food trolley. Plus tray tables.
  • 2 X 2 seating, with 60 seats per carriage so 15 rows of seats
  • Appropriate facilities for disabled people
  • Storage section for bikes and luggage etc..
  • Overhead racks for smaller bags
  • Underfloor batteries with 5 -  6 hours of storage capacity, powered by HEP and then by motion driven alternators when the carriage is moving. So no heavy diesel alternators.
  • If possible, solar panels to generate electricity on the roof of each carriage.
  • Gross weight of 40 tons, so lighter than an N carriage.
  • Assuming 15 X 5 car sets as the basic package, with options for 6 - 8 cars as required.


That should do the job nicely

Duncs
Duncs
That all seems reasonable, except for the power system, an Industrial strength Solar power system capable of supplying 4 Kwatts for 5 hours could easily cost $100,000 (at a very minumum) and one for each car would be a lot of high technology just waiting to go faulty.
Also all modern pass locos will provide Head end power, from the main power system, usually from the main altenators exciter.

Bye the way, a battery for such a system is a none issue. one capable supplying 4kw for 5 hours would be around 660mm wide. 350mm high and 1200mm long and weigh around 400 Kg with the case. Cost is at the moment $20,500 for the Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries.

woodford

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