Metro Trains Melbourne asks job applicants questions on sexual orientation, cultural background and disability

 

News article: Metro Trains Melbourne asks job applicants questions on sexual orientation, cultural background and disability

JOB applicants for Metro Trains Melbourne have been asked to provide explicit details of their sexual orientation — including whether they are “lesbian, gay, bisexual, heterosexual, transgender or intersex”.

  freightgate Minister for Railways

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  Madjikthise Deputy Commissioner

It doesn't matter how they try to explain it away. There is no possible justification for this question other than trying to exclude or include certain applicants.
  TOQ-1 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Power Trainger
Intersex ?

Metro Trains Melbourne asks job applicants questions on sexual orientation, cultural background and disability
freightgate
Intersex is a person who is born without the anatomy typical of either male or female sexes. It is broad ranging and definitely not a sexuality.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
I understand that hey are advertising specifically for female drivers again.
  apw5910 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Location: Location.
I'm missing something here. How is having/not having/wishing you had/wishing you didn't have a penis/vagina/whatever relevant to driving a train?
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
I'm missing something here. How is having/not having/wishing you had/wishing you didn't have a penis/vagina/whatever relevant to driving a train?
apw5910
But if you have boobs you can ask Metro to buy you a sports bra.
I thought that all this sort of discriminatory thing was illegal.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
I'm missing something here. How is having/not having/wishing you had/wishing you didn't have a penis/vagina/whatever relevant to driving a train?
But if you have boobs you can ask Metro to buy you a sports bra.
I thought that all this sort of discriminatory thing was illegal.
YM-Mundrabilla
Me too. By my understanding of the law. Metro should have recalled all the job adverts, made multiple public applogies and re invited anyone interested or who applied to apply again and finally sacked a few managers in HR and begged the anti-discrimination for forgiveness and reduced fine.
  locojoe67 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Gen X purgatory/urban Joh-land
Perfectly legal and recall that artc got permission to target female candidates in a recent campaign.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
I understand that hey are advertising specifically for female drivers again.
YM-Mundrabilla

It is I believe illegal to discriminate on the basis of Sex.
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
The only part which has any relevance as far as I can see is Disability which may render a person unfit to drive a train. Of the  rest; gender and sexuality enquiries sound like institutionalized perving.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
The only part which has any relevance as far as I can see is Disability which may render a person unfit to drive a train. Of the  rest; gender and sexuality enquiries sound like institutionalized perving.
Valvegear
I'm not sure if it's actually connected but I can't help but wonder if they're hyper-vigilant about the people they're employing following that (yet to be proven in a court of law) incident recently with the arson and vandalism actions of a staff member?

Not that being a cross-dresser or inter-sex or whatever is necessarily connected with being an arsonist or a saboteur.
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

Perfectly legal and recall that artc got permission to target female candidates in a recent campaign.
locojoe67
Perfectly legal to engage in positive discrimination to balance gender equality caused by previous discrimination but the various laws regarding discrimination on the basis of gender etc otherwise still apply.
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
The only part which has any relevance as far as I can see is Disability which may render a person unfit to drive a train. Of the  rest; gender and sexuality enquiries sound like institutionalized perving.
Valvegear
It depends on how they ask this question.  If they ask it in the form of "Do you have a disability that may impact your ability to safely control a train in normal operation, such as blindness, being a quadriplegic etc etc etc" then Id say that's valid.  Its going to be pretty clear when you turn up to an interview so I cant see the harm in filtering at that stage.  If its just a question of "Are you disabled" then that's discriminatory, (in my non legal view anyway)
  Lockspike Deputy Commissioner

There is provision in EEO legislation for minority groups (i.e. anyone except a white married heterosexual christian (nominal or practicing) male of Anglo-Saxon background, who does not have a disability) to be treated preferentially until such time that the number of persons in any given minority group equals that of the majority group, so get used to the legal reverse discrimination.

Therefore, if Metro is advertising specifically for female drivers, they are currently allowed to do so...
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
@Lockspike, can you point me to that section?  Id like to know how it works.  Eg, if Metro currently has, say 2% of drivers of a given minority, but the proportion of such a minority in the population is say 0.5%, then is positive discrimination not legal in this case?
  Rodo Chief Commissioner

Location: Southern Riverina
Finding suitable people for a workplace is all about discrimination, the suitable must be discriminated from the unsuitable.
  Lockspike Deputy Commissioner

@Lockspike, can you point me to that section?  Id like to know how it works.  Eg, if Metro currently has, say 2% of drivers of a given minority, but the proportion of such a minority in the population is say 0.5%, then is positive discrimination not legal in this case?
james.au
James,
That's right, if the minority has numbers in excess of them in the general population, they can suffer legal discrimination until their numbers are consistent with the general population.

There is no one section that sums this up, rather what I wrote in my earlier post is a distillation of my understanding of the intent of the legislation.

The act can be found at: EQUAL OPPORTUNITY ACT 2010 . I've linked to the Victorian legislation as this thread is in the Victorian forum, but the act in each Australian jurisdiction has similar provision.

Also having a bearing:
RACIAL AND RELIGIOUS TOLERANCE ACT 2001
CHARTER OF HUMAN RIGHTS AND RESPONSIBILITIES ACT 2006

Little wonder lawyers make good money out of this stuff.

However, guidance can be obtained from the Victorian Equal Opportunity and Human Rights Commission - Google it.
  Lockspike Deputy Commissioner

Finding suitable people for a workplace is all about discrimination, the suitable must be discriminated from the unsuitable.
Rodo
True,
Not all discrimination is illegal
  Rodo Chief Commissioner

Location: Southern Riverina
A discrimination against women (or even micro-penised men) makes sense. When operating trains, it is all to often necessary to urinate out the door in order to keep things running on time. I can assure you that the 20 men I went through medicals with in  the early 1980s were inspected to make sure they had an adequate python to syphon.
  QSB6.7 Chief Train Controller

Location: Going off the rails on a crazy train.
It doesn't matter how they try to explain it away. There is no possible justification for this question other than trying to exclude or include certain applicants.
Madjikthise
Exactly what I was thinking.

So, if you identify as a white, straight male are you automatically excluded in this "Diverse" workforce?
  xxxxlbear Token Booking Clerk

Location: Geelong
An organisation can appear to be anti-discriminatory in its job adverts, but the person hiring and firing can have a secret agenda..if it is decided to hire women only, then that's what the HR department will do, giving false rejection reasons to the unsuccessful.
  Madjikthise Deputy Commissioner

An organisation can appear to be anti-discriminatory in its job adverts, but the person hiring and firing can have a secret agenda..if it is decided to hire women only, then that's what the HR department will do, giving false rejection reasons to the unsuccessful.
xxxxlbear
There's not much anyone can do about that once it gets to the interview process, but by asking up front what your sexual orientation is they are saying it is actually important to the application.
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

It doesn't matter how they try to explain it away. There is no possible justification for this question other than trying to exclude or include certain applicants.
Exactly what I was thinking.

So, if you identify as a white, straight male are you automatically excluded in this "Diverse" workforce?
QSB6.7
Yeah and White Straight males are really hard done by!!! I do not think many are understanding as to why agencies such as Metro Trains, Police etc are targeting groups. Because they are flaming underrepresented that is why. The vast majority of drivers are white straight males. Women are really underrepresented and Metro seeks to address this. That is why there are special cases to address this. They want to encourage diversity in the workforce. Women and minorities have been discriminated against and because Metro seeks to address this, some posters cry discrimination and get their knickers in a twist and I would find at absolutely laughable, if they werent so damn serious.

Michael
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

....

It is I believe illegal to discriminate on the basis of Sex.
Nor is it lawful to discriminate on a range of other grounds as well. But there can be a "dispensation" of these laws if one is specifically targeting an "under represented", "marginalised", or some other politically correct criteria, so as to improve "inclusivity" within the working environment. Of course this is a form of discrimination. A "WASP" (white Anglo-Saxon protestant), especially male, who practices their religion would never see any "inclusivity" in today's political environment.
3l diesel
No it isn't and WASP males run most things in Australian society so I hardly think that they are being discriminated against

Michael
  xxxxlbear Token Booking Clerk

Location: Geelong
Actually, aren't drives to hire specific sections of the community such as women, gays, aboriginals for example,  discrimination against everybody else?


In this day and age, it should be the best person for the job, and if that means a black vegetarian lesbian Buddhist who gets it, then so be it.


If I was going for a job at Metro, or any other company, and lost out to someone else with less experience/qualifications than me, and who only got the job because they were part of a targeted grouping such as females or whatever, I'd feel hard done by, and pretty much discriminated against.

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