North East line improvements

 
  woodford Chief Commissioner

I would think that the As in storage could come out of storage and take over one or two N Class duties somewhere, freeing up that N class for conversion to operate the (speculated) 4th Albury service (assuming a move to 4x4 carriages instead of the 3x5 sets we have now) and possibly have a back up loco for Albury.  Lets not SG the As if we don't have to.
Are there any power vans left to pair with these A class?


Probably not, Vline appears to have 3 PCJ (491-493) power vans, they are listed as power vans only, but have a storage area usually used for bikes. These are the ones on SG., there construction is similiar to the N cars

There is also 4 PH (451-454) power vans, these look like standard bogie louver vans with a genset in them.


Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, No wonder VLine is dragging its feet with a 4th set, no more power  vans. This raises a question was it a real good idea to remove the old power systems from the N cars on SG and make them completely dependent on a power van. It may have been extra maintence for the cars genset but it did make the cars NOT as a standard.N car with different axles.

Power van info courtesy if Vic sig.

woodford
woodford
I believe the PH Vans were converted from existing rolling stock. Would there be another Van that could be converted into a PH Van, and would this be appropriate?
"TOQ-1"


Nothing wrong with that, I would not think they would have to much of a problem digging up another van, it would though be an odd man out, but it would be by far the cheapest option. For the additional set they will need not only the power van but a BRN and an ACN, one assumes the three cars they will get from the existing sets will be BN's?

Note: Do not forget they REALLY need another two sets and two loco's so there will always be an operational spare.

woodford

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  Greensleeves Chief Commissioner

Location: If it isn't obvious by now, it should be.
I would think that the As in storage could come out of storage and take over one or two N Class duties somewhere, freeing up that N class for conversion to operate the (speculated) 4th Albury service (assuming a move to 4x4 carriages instead of the 3x5 sets we have now) and possibly have a back up loco for Albury.  Lets not SG the As if we don't have to.
Are there any power vans left to pair with these A class?
alstom_888m

There's still the PH vans (451-454) and several D vans that they could wire up and fit generators to if needed, but there's still the problem of the A's being a two-man crew when the N's are driver-only. Plus the PH vans tend to be drafted onto another set if the backup generators on it are duds.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
VLine actually does have a long term strategy, its to replace the SG cars and loco's with some kind of long distance DMU setup. it appears though the whole problem is they (VLine) do not believe they will ever get the funds to carry this off, which is probably why they are struck dumb whenever they are questioned.

woodford
woodford

From the 2016 Budget papers...

http://www.premier.vic.gov.au/getting-it-done-for-north-east-victoria/

The Budget provides $15 million towards refurbishing and converting the three train-sets of five carriages into four-train sets of four carriages on the Albury line. This will improve reliability and improve the carriages to make them more comfortable for passengers.

We’re also getting on with developing the next generation of trains on the Albury line to enable the classic fleet to be retired and replaced.

Underlined for emphasis...

I believe there is also a mention in the Budget papers of ripping out the Economy seating and replacement.

Mike.
  Duncs Chief Commissioner

A few weeks ago Tim Fisher (former deputy prime minister and strong rail supporter) suggested that Vline convert some V Locities to standard gauge for this line, upgrade the seating and put in a food trolley etc.. I think this would be a very reasonable step. At least until the next generation of long haul loco sets or DMU's come along.

I would use Kuldalai's suggestion of 4 car V Locities from his posts in other threads, and go further. Create a 5 car V Locity Set with two driver cabs at each end and 3 powered passenger cars in between. Then upgrade the remaining few unprotected level crossings, as mentioned before by Woodford, and then have enough V Locity sets to do the job properly. If that means building a few extra V Locities, so be it. While this would not be suitable on other lines due to level crossing protection issues, it can be done on the north east SG line without incurring a ridiculous cost.

A question for Woodford;

Assuming the V Locities can travel at 130kph (the top speed for the current signalling set up on this line ) and working from the current V Line timetable, what time savings can these new train realistically achieve? At present the N sets can do all the stops in 3hours 45-50 minutes, and the XPT in 3 hours 15-20 minutes.

Duncs
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
Perhaps the biggest issue here is the maintenance of the line and rollingstock? What is the point of doing all these upgrades if the maintenance is either not done properly/at all?
  Duncs Chief Commissioner

Perhaps the biggest issue here is the maintenance of the line and rollingstock? What is the point of doing all these upgrades if the maintenance is either not done properly/at all?
railblogger
I totally agree with you!
  woodford Chief Commissioner

Perhaps the biggest issue here is the maintenance of the line and rollingstock? What is the point of doing all these upgrades if the maintenance is either not done properly/at all?
railblogger
Amen brother!!!!!!

Poor maintence  strategies of the rolling stock would be the major contributor to the Albury lines poor performance

woodford
  woodford Chief Commissioner

In answer to Dunc's question below is the result of a mathematical simulation (Note 1) of a push pull 6 car train with two 3300bhp loco's, power to weight ratio 11BHP per tonne. A similiar result would apply to a VLocty style DMU.

The time saving to Albury is around 30 minutes, this is largely the result of far better acceleration, particularly on the hills.


               time                    stop time
               secs    minutes

SC                                                                   0710

Seymour                                  2                       0824
Avenel          554     9.3            1                       0834
Euroa           1063    17.75         1                       0853
VT               578     9.75           1                       0904
Benalla         718     12              2                       0918
Wang           1163    19.5           2                       0940
Spring          716     12              1                       0953
Chiltern        452     7.5             1                       1003
Wodonga      796     13.5            2                       1019
Albury          473     8                2                       1030
Culcairn        1446    24             1                       1055
Henty           522     9               1                       1105
The Rock        885     15            1                       1121
Wagga           876     15                                      1136

Note 1: The simulation was calculated in 250 metre steps for the whole distance from Seymour to Wagga. SC to Seymour was not done as train performance on this stage is dictated by hills and speed limits.

Excuse the poor formating the web sits is using proportional spaced fonts, the simulation output uses fixed spaced fonts.
woodford
  woodford Chief Commissioner

Post Script, the above is purely based on machine performance, there is no allowence for opposing traffic or build out time.

Note: 160kph running would have little effect due to the very many short sections between stops.

woodford
  Duncs Chief Commissioner

Post Script, the above is purely based on machine performance, there is no allowence for opposing traffic or build out time.

Note: 160kph running would have little effect due to the very many short sections between stops.

woodford
woodford
Thanks Woodford

So we now have a time of 3hours 20 minutes SCS to Albury. At present it can be as much as 3 hours 45 - 50 minutes. So a 25 -30 minute time saving. Impressive!

I agree with your reasons on why the 160kph top speed would be problematic, and that you would have calculated based on a 130 kph top speed. Having said that, is their any possibility of squeezing an extra 10 kph in a few places, so the top speed becomes 140kph?

Duncs
  Galron Chief Commissioner

Location: Werribee, Vic
In answer to Dunc's question below is the result of a mathematical simulation (Note 1) of a push pull 6 car train with two 3300bhp loco's, power to weight ratio 11BHP per tonne. A similiar result would apply to a VLocty style DMU.

woodford
Aurizon has a number of CLP/F's in storage that would fit the bill here. Just need to resolve any outsanding reliability issues with the rolling stock.
  BigShunter Chief Commissioner

Location: St Clair. S.A.
Post Script, the above is purely based on machine performance, there is no allowence for opposing traffic or build out time.

Note: 160kph running would have little effect due to the very many short sections between stops.

woodford


Thanks Woodford

So we now have a time of 3hours 20 minutes SCS to Albury. At present it can be as much as 3 hours 45 - 50 minutes. So a 25 -30 minute time saving. Impressive!

I agree with your reasons on why the 160kph top speed would be problematic, and that you would have calculated based on a 130 kph top speed. Having said that, is their any possibility of squeezing an extra 10 kph in a few places, so the top speed becomes 140kph?

Duncs