Photos! ixion Models' HO low-frame 32 Class

 
  dthead Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
It's interesting how people are totally ignoring this, and go on and on:

Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 8:53 pm  by Ixion Models:

"The headlight is the classic example; Phil Badger spent a full half hour actually AT the factory explaining what 'translucent' means. We asked for a translucent (clear, but slightly milky) lens because the headlight is an LED on a green PCB, which looked poor. The white headlight lens is their interpretation of that discussion. It looks fantastic when lit, and running! But so odd when standing still. We first saw it last Friday night when we opened the boxes... And were disappointed. But what's done, is done."



When the manufacture agree with everyone, wanted what everyone here wants in the headlight, but when delivered they are wrong - I suppose  some of you want them to junk the shipment and redo it again? They are as annoyed, actually I think very pissed off.

So are there any modellers, actual modellers, who can suggest a fix, some glue or something to cloud the lens.....

I am sure these models will be modified, or run as they are.

So How about some solutions to problems rather than say nah too hard....  As stated they have some wrong aspects, but what is right? Do they look like the loco?


Regards,
David Head

ps Who would ever want to make a model these days, I wouldn't ! The stuff they have to do overseas are a horror story.

Edit:   I better state that at the moment I have no desire to buy one because  for starters I have no money,unemployed ( anyone got a job) -  and at the moment not really interested in that NSW loco, I do have several NSW locos. Who know if things change I might buy one, but when I thought of the Trainorama one, they had sold out !

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  Hunter3265 Station Staff

Location: Armidale
G’day all

This is fantastic and I am loving the discussion. It is a reminder of my good times back on the railways and it is excellent.

To Craig

Of course I didn’t expect any more from you for an answer especially when you are now going on about personal abuse when that is far from the fact.

Do you want me to list the faults? Sure let me dig up my old AMRM and I will get to you on that. From the top of my head I remember that you said the dome was too small but from my recollection it is correct. I believe there was a comment about the lining on the green being incorrect however that had been mixed between steam depending on the paintjob the depots did.

Perhaps as someone who actually worked on them and cleaned the damn things (yuck!) I will know a lot more than pure observations and photographs.

I was born in 1941 and there were maroon 32s in the post war period (not 3265) and even reframed. For example, 3277 was one that I had seen and that was a deep maroon but not exactly represented well by either Trainorama or Ixion. I had conflicting reports from those older than myself (many of whom have now passed on) who argue 3298 (the one that I believe is a fiction) was in maroon after it was reframed but having never seen it myself I cannot confirm or deny it.

3246 is in general about its roof.

To meh and Dazz,

Thank you for the photos. It looks like that the chimney was done well prior to final assembly and was stuffed up entirely. Which is a huge disappointment though it certainly is too thick regardless. The headlight now really sticks out especially with the white lens.

On the positive side the paintwork does look fantastic and the same for the side numbers, NSW railways crest and the Hunter nameplates. The ABS tender as well is better than having an overweight tender that serves no traction purpose. That is awesome!

To M636C

If the maroon 32 matches the red from a Tuscan and Russet suburban car then it is totally wrong. Are you sure? That will be really unlikely.

To John

I have read that the spring or washers from the pony truck need to be removed? Can you comment on how that may improve haulage.

Thank you all for your contributions.

Good night

Tom.
  Lambing Flat Chief Train Controller

Location: My preference....... Central West NSW, circa 1955....
Do you want me to list the faults? Sure let me dig up my old AMRM and I will get to you on that. From the top of my head I remember that you said the dome was too small but from my recollection it is correct. I believe there was a comment about the lining on the green being incorrect however that had been mixed between steam depending on the paintjob the depots did.

Perhaps as someone who actually worked on them and cleaned the damn things (yuck!) I will know a lot more than pure observations and photographs.

I was born in 1941 and there were maroon 32s in the post war period (not 3265) and even reframed. For example, 3277 was one that I had seen and that was a deep maroon but not exactly represented well by either Trainorama or Ixion. I had conflicting reports from those older than myself (many of whom have now passed on) who argue 3298 (the one that I believe is a fiction) was in maroon after it was reframed but having never seen it myself I cannot confirm or deny it.
Hunter3265

Tom, first of all, 'anecdote is not evidence', unless backed up with written or visual records.

The Traino dome was (and continues to be) undersize, not because Craig thinks it was, but because its dimensions, as measured against official documents and measurements of the real thing, say it is.
The boiler band lining (plus certain other aspects of the colour placement of the green locomotives) was incorrect, not because Craig thinks it was, but because that is what official documents and photographs say. The green locomotives were not painted at depots by a couple of cleaners with time on their hands, but by trained painters at the workshops who followed strict directions drawn up and approved by management.

If you remember cleaning maroon 32 class, particularly reframed locos, (other than 3214) after 1941, then you are either mistaken in your memories, or have uncovered something that has not been recorded on any documents or photographed by anyone. In fact, all the official documentation states very clearly that no reframed locomotive was painted maroon (other than 3214 in preservation) and that the low-frame locos that were maroon were all black again by the end of WW2.

A couple of green 32s did survive the war. A green one is noted as passing on a train during the opening ceremonies of the Hawkesbury River bridge in 1946 and the last 32 to be painted green (3261, if I have consulted the correct reference), was noted shunting (in filthy condition) at Goulburn in 1950.

Personal memories are not reliable recorders of history unless backed up by other evidence. A delightful example of this occurred is when Neil Cram displayed his collection of NSWGR steam locos at the Liverpool exhibition during the 1980s. As part of the display, he had a number of models of 'might have been' and planned, but never built, locomotives on display, including a model of the proposed 37 class 4-6-2, which was a rebuild of the 36 class that was mooted in the 1930s to solve some of the problems that were being experienced with that class at the time. An old ex-South Grafton driver was viewing the display and made himself known, reminiscing on his experiences driving the 37 class on the north coast line pre-WW2! No matter how Neil or Eddie tried, they could not dissuade him from his belief!
  Newcastle Express Chief Commissioner

Can someone please post a picture of the same type of 32 class beside each other from different suppliers please.
  CraigW Assistant Commissioner

Can someone please post a picture of the same type of 32 class beside each other from different suppliers please.
Newcastle Express
They are not the same locos Newcastle. The Trainorama one is the "high" framed type that a number of the 32 class were progressivily rebuilt to from 1937. They had thicker frames and the boiler centre line was raised.

The Ixion model represents a loco with original frames - the boiler was at a lower centreline.

M636C, 3265 was painted as close as is practicable to the 1930s livery within the constraints of the loco having some modifications from 1930s condition. The lining follows the portrait photos of 3265 and the Maroon is a standard colour. As the contemparary description of the loco colour varied widely it is the closest match possible.

If you felt up to modifying the safety valves and feedwater pipes you should have a pretty accurate model.

Regards,

Craig W
  dthead Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Can someone please post a picture of the same type of 32 class beside each other from different suppliers please.
Newcastle Express
Others might find other models, I do not know if any brass models were made or if there were any kits made.

To compare someone will need a Ixion model !

David
  Lambing Flat Chief Train Controller

Location: My preference....... Central West NSW, circa 1955....
There have been a number of commercially available HO scale 32 class over the years, of varying quality.

(In order of first release)

1960s/'70s: Berg's brass - characteristics of a low frame loco, but not particularly dimensionally accurate.

1960s: Jamison brass kit - high-frame loco, pre-cut brass parts, no rivet or other detail, accuracy depended on the skill of person assembling it.

1980s: Classic brass - two versions. High-frame loco very good dimensionally and ran very well. Low frame loco built to the dimensions of a high-frame loco, but with low-frame characteristics. The examples I have seen were not particularly good runners.

My Classic high-frame 32





1980s: DJH whitemetal kit - first DJH kit commissioned by Lloyd's Model Railways (later sold to AR Kits, not currently available). Reasonable interpretation of a high frame loco, some dimensional discrepancies caused primarily by the use of commercial driving wheels that were slightly too big.

Gary Laker photo of an under construction DJH 32



2008: Trainorama r-t-r - high frame loco. Quite acceptable interpretation, despite some minor appearance discrepancies. Runs very well, though driving wheel tyres occasionally fall off and need to be glued back on.

My modified and weathered green Trainorama 32




2016: Ixion r-t-r - two versions of the low frame locos. See above (and probably below!) for opinions and upcoming 'On the Workbench' in AMRM for considered verdict on appearance and running characteristics.
  Dazz Deputy Commissioner

32-Class Classic Brass HO scale


  Lambing Flat Chief Train Controller

Location: My preference....... Central West NSW, circa 1955....
32-Class Classic Brass HO scale
Dazz


Just the thing, Dazz! That's the low-frame version, but if one looks closely, one can see that the boiler is pitched at the higher 'high-frame' height, rather than the lower height of the prototype.
  dthead Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
So what models out there match the Ixion models exactly and are  truly better than them ?  

Seems there has been a lot of attempts to doi the model but none have been 100% correct, actually no model can be 100% correct, even many  reckn full size locos are nor correct tot he originals etc etc. The degree of accuracy is the aim every manufacturer strives for. Yet many factors act. Be it cost,  if it was a cast or etched kit, be it metal/plastic etc - information resources, time - and other factors all add ot how good a model is.

So historically Ixion realeased their version of the low framed 32 class in 2016.

Regards,
David Head
  dthead Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
By the way  the O scale, 7mm/ft 32 class  kit, what did it build ?

Regards,
David Head
  a6et Minister for Railways

So what models out there match the Ixion models exactly and are  truly better than them ?  

Seems there has been a lot of attempts to doi the model but none have been 100% correct, actually no model can be 100% correct, even many  reckn full size locos are nor correct tot he originals etc etc. The degree of accuracy is the aim every manufacturer strives for. Yet many factors act. Be it cost,  if it was a cast or etched kit, be it metal/plastic etc - information resources, time - and other factors all add ot how good a model is.

So historically Ixion realeased their version of the low framed 32 class in 2016.

Regards,
David Head
dthead
David,

Ixion asked for input, many sent in their input & supported with photo's & other helps, I know I did anyway & know the response I got.

James at one point has said a target or something at the 99.5% accuracy for models, I would be stocked to see that level of accuracy. I got abused by another modeler for suggesting that I would be more than happy & accept a 5 - 10% toleration in accuracy, but primarily in the major areas of a model though.

What I am seeing these days is some of the companies are not accepting near enough models & prepared to take a delay in order to their product right, which I agree with, although in some cases we have had to wait near on 8 years for one specific model, hopefully when it arrives & I get mine the wait will have been worth it. (likely my last locomotive addition anyway)

Some years ago John Eassie when he announced the 2nd run of the 36cl made the comment the funnel would be corrected on owing to the pedantic B's out there, when the model arrived the funnel was not fixed & old one came with it. Along with a couple of others I asked him if he would still get the corrected funnel & bring it in, & he said no, as he pushed the factory & took a refund of what he paid for the correction.

Move to the Ixion 32cl,  When the last post was put on their blog site about the model going into production it was said that Phil Badger was going to China to ensure the model & corrections notified to them was correctly done, a specific mention was made regarding the water delivery pipes on the non preserved models.  The same or an earlier post said that Phil had made a list of corrections needed & that Ixion was not desirous of any further input.

So, despite the input by others & myself, also the aspect that Phil was in China to supervise the models, why is it that the preserved style of the water delivery pipes has ended up on all models? especially with preproduction photo's shown on this thread clearly shows the correct pipes on the non preserved models?   As I am not purchasing one of the models for the reasons stated before, that include the errors that I have also noted along with others I have not mentioned, surely the modellers who purchase the model expecting to see the model arrive as they expect, such as with the water delivery pipes being correct on the models they purchased should be at least have them replaced by Ixion as a sign of good faith or something?

If one wanted to replace the other items, & if they were readily available in correct form, which some are others, not so readily available the cost to replace them would add up to a not too insignificant amount, likewise the replacement by the modellers in dealing with the water delivery pipes may be a bit beyond many modellers.

But being realistic, for a product & I am not just aiming this at the Ixion 32cl either but to other models out there as well, the 32cl is not overtly cheap really, at least for many modellers. $595.00 plus P&H of $20 is something that I don't have readily available & I suspect I'm not Robinson Crusoe on that front either, why shouldn't we get the model as advertised, with the promises or assurances that are given by the companies when paying up front, sight unseen of the final product.???
  meh Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney
A bit of a comparison photo between 3294 (Trainorama - High Framed) and 3265 (Ixion - Low Framed):



https://www.instagram.com/bigdirtyfreighttrains/

I'm still happy with it, but that white headlight needs to go.

Cheers,
-Mitch
  NSWRcars Assistant Commissioner

A bit of a comparison photo between 3294 (Trainorama - High Framed) and 3265 (Ixion - Low Framed):
meh
Interesting comparison pic. Thanks for posting.

A photo that gives a fair idea of prototype details and their proportions, is this Buckland photo of 3361 (one of the models offered by Ixion).

http://nla.gov.au/nla.pic-vn3258124

Interestingly the water feed pipes appear to more closely match the Ixion model.

Apart from the obvious problems with headlight, chimney and dome, the most glaring error to my eye is buffer beam proportions (as pointed out by Hunter3265).
  a6et Minister for Railways

A bit of a comparison photo between 3294 (Trainorama - High Framed) and 3265 (Ixion - Low Framed):
Interesting comparison pic. Thanks for posting.

A photo that gives a fair idea of prototype details and their proportions, is this Buckland photo of 3361 (one of the models offered by Ixion).

http://nla.gov.au/nla.pic-vn3258124

Interestingly the water feed pipes appear to more closely match the Ixion model.

Apart from the obvious problems with headlight, chimney and dome, the most glaring error to my eye is buffer beam proportions (as pointed out by Hunter3265).
NSWRcars
One of the things that I have found with some of the later 32's especially it seems from around 3334 & following is that there is differences in the angled section of the running board from the cylinder to the steel backplate for the timber buffer.

There was also some variations to the water delivery pipes, but generally not a lot, many them have the rear lower section at different angles rather than running parallel to the running board as was the normal for them as shown in this Langford photo of 3336. Also as the date being 1962, this P class also has pop safety valves quite unusual for them as it would have been at an early stage when the ramsbottom valves were being fazed out.

http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/ww120/a6et/Forbes%203336%20shunting%2002-01-62_zpsbp5g5gqt.jpg
  a6et Minister for Railways

A bit of a comparison photo between 3294 (Trainorama - High Framed) and 3265 (Ixion - Low Framed):



https://www.instagram.com/bigdirtyfreighttrains/

I'm still happy with it, but that white headlight needs to go.

Cheers,
-Mitch
meh
Mitch

The least destructive way would be to try & remove the white lense, its quite likely just a painted bit of clear styrene/plastic.

From photo's posted of the headlight before the white paint the led & PCB behind it is fairly far forward, if that can be relocated as a whole to the back of the headlight it would look much better as the green shade of the PCB would not be as prominent, if not get some silver frost & paint over the green section of the board, that will sort of simulate the reflector that was inside the headlights.  Then get some Micro clear & fill in the front to make a new lens for it..

I have found some of the loco's I have, have lost their lens & I just use the micro clear as a simple replacement & looks more than adequate.
  Dazz Deputy Commissioner

from facebook, for those that don't use it, thought it was interesting.

Ixion Model Railways Ltd ·

It's funny the things you forget... When we opened the boxes to see the locos on that first night a fortnight ago, I realised that the instruction sheet didn't mention the accessories pack!
So, this is what can be found in it:
1. A set of etched fire irons
2. A genuine Kadee #158 coupler for the front buffer beam, If you want to fit it, carefully (with a tiny screwdriver) undo the screw behind the buffer beam, remove the section which houses the hook, and screw in the coupler in its place.
3. Two little leaf shaped pieces, which glue into the fronts of the cylinders to fill in the 'scallops' which are there to allow the loco to traverse tight radius curves (at the Epping MRC show 3265 was going around 18" radius curves on 'Wumbat', no problems). Only fit these pieces if you have large - over 24" radius - curves.
4. A rear headlight for the tender. Some 32s had them, most didn't, and even then not for all their working lives. Check photos of your chosen loco in the period you are modelling. See it in blue on the image in this post.
5. A valve for the RH side of the firebox. We don't know what it's called, or its function, but doubtless someone reading this can enlighten us. Again, not all locos had it, but it's supplied if you want to fit it. See it coloured in blue just forward of the cab in the attached image. It's correct location seems to be just above the boiler washout plug nearest the cab front. Again, I bet someone has an image that gives us a definitive location.
  Dazz Deputy Commissioner

more from bookface

Ixion Model Railways Ltd ·

And a pre-release purchased locos update. Posting commenced in Newcastle today, and most others will be posted tomorrow in Sydney. Have compassion for the Post Office worker on the counter when Phil arrives with 150 parcels to process, if a bulk handover can't be organised!
  Newcastle Express Chief Commissioner

I'm still happy with it, but that white headlight needs to go.
meh
Are you trying to say that white light is not even on?
  3333 Station Staff

Not wanting to add fuel to the fire....but I must say that the enlarged photo of James' 32 does show the funnel to appear to have been "ring-barked" in 2 places. Nothing that a bit of bog filler stuff couldn't hide I guess, followed by a touch-up with some black paint and some weathering.

Other than that I reckon she looks like a real bottler.

The only thing I'd like to know before I shelled out my dough would be practical things like how many wheels do the electrical pick-up and what is the tractive effort like? Does anybody have any ideas about these 2 aspects please?

Roachie
Roachie
Roachie

In regard to the 'tractive effort'. I have 2 Ixions, a DJH and a Traino. The Ixion Locos weigh 159 gms (without tender) and with my test could haul aproxx 683gms comprising 8 various coaches. The Traino weighs 232 gms (without tender) and can haul approx 825 gms. Both being on level track. The DJH weighs 254 gms (loco only) but is currently OS due to fitting of DCC but am having difficulty connecting the motor to the gear box with model aircraft fuel line. Have therefore not been able to test the 'tractive effort' of the DJH.

The Traino (DCC) has had the spring removed from the front bogie but the Ixions are straight from the box and still on DC

Apart from the white headlight I am happy with the locos, but then I am more interested in how well they run rather than how accurate a representation of the 'real' locos they are, in my opinion they are close enough for me.

Also took some photos of all 4 locos, tried to post them in here but could not figure out how to and lost interest as wasted too much time trying, going to try and get the DJH running instead.

Hope this is of some help but bear in mind i am a 'beginner'.




Regards


Paul
  Dazz Deputy Commissioner

easiest way to upload photos is use another site for hosting, I use this one it's very simple. https://postimage.org/

I thought it was worth testing to make sure it still worked, so used it to post up this interesting picture, looking forward to duplicating this when my pair of 32 class arrive.


  M636C Minister for Railways

easiest way to upload photos is use another site for hosting, I use this one it's very simple. https://postimage.org/

I thought it was worth testing to make sure it still worked, so used it to post up this interesting picture, looking forward to duplicating this when my pair of 32 class arrive.


Dazz
Is one of your 32 models from Trainorama?

3274 is a reframed locomotive....

M636C
  Dazz Deputy Commissioner

photo was just an example of a rarely seen tended to tender double heading, not the locomotive numbers I have ordered, both are Ixion, 3258 and 3333 are the numbers I have ordered.

On that note, I do look forward to duplicating the following with 3803 and 3258!
  a6et Minister for Railways

photo was just an example of a rarely seen tended to tender double heading, not the locomotive numbers I have ordered, both are Ixion, 3258 and 3333 are the numbers I have ordered.

On that note, I do look forward to duplicating the following with 3803 and 3258!
Dazz
Daz.  The tour had 3258 & 3802 on it not 3803.  Both loco's were at Eveleigh at the time as Pilot engines. The 53 & 55 rostered for the train had not been lit up at Enfiield & by the time they were there was no chance they could run the train. The two crews, one Enfield & one Eveleigh were despatched on 2 30Tank engines from Sydney yard to get the 32 & 38 from Eveliegh & bring them back & work the train to Unanderra.

Have some nice tape recordings of the tour & 3802 at the time had hollow wheels slipping a lot. Had one overhaul left prior to eventual withdrawal. The best of the streamliners that I fired.
  Dazz Deputy Commissioner

foiled again LOL

Thank you for the correct information, goes to show that incorrect photographic information is out there, you cannot believe everything you see or are told!

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