Investors flags $300m plan for Melbourne airport-rail link

 
Topic moved from News by bevans on 18 Dec 2016 17:29
  JimYarin Chief Commissioner

Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Tired of the Victorian Government making excuses they will go it alone which may mean access seeking for the Metro Network which might see another operator on the network which is great!

Investors flags $300m plan for Melbourne airport-rail link

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  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Interesting the transport opposition spokesman who is Liberal stated the link is desperately needed.  If this were true then why didn't they build it?

Kennett was offered the money from Canberra and knocked it back in favour of a toll road he was personally made millions on.
  Bogong Chief Commissioner

Location: Essendon Aerodrome circa 1980
Interesting the transport opposition spokesman who is Liberal stated the link is desperately needed.  If this were true then why didn't they build it?

Kennett was offered the money from Canberra and knocked it back in favour of a toll road he was personally made millions on.
bevans
What a selective memory you have Bevans. Honestly, how many MPs (of either persuasion) are still in parliament from all those decades ago when Jeff Kennett was premier?

To refresh your memory, Denis Napthine announced that the airport line would be built about 8 months before the last state election. It got wide coverage in all forms of media and there was a long running thread about it on this very forum. It was part of the Libs election campaign just two years ago, but the line was cancelled within a few weeks of the current government being elected. So there's no doubt that this century the Libs have been far more pro airport rail line than the party that is currently in power.
  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: Gheringhap Loop Autonomous Zone
Tired of the Victorian Government making excuses they will go it alone which may mean access seeking for the Metro Network which might see another operator on the network which is great!
JimYarin
At least the Victorian State Government is being honest (for once) when they say that they're not going to build the Melbourne Airport Rail Link in the near term. As for the supposed private investor... money talks and $#@%! walks.
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

Location: Banned
Interesting the transport opposition spokesman who is Liberal stated the link is desperately needed.  If this were true then why didn't they build it?

Kennett was offered the money from Canberra and knocked it back in favour of a toll road he was personally made millions on.
What a selective memory you have Bevans. Honestly, how many MPs (of either persuasion) are still in parliament from all those decades ago when Jeff Kennett was premier?

To refresh your memory, Denis Napthine announced that the airport line would be built about 8 months before the last state election. It got wide coverage in all forms of media and there was a long running thread about it on this very forum. It was part of the Libs election campaign just two years ago, but the line was cancelled within a few weeks of the current government being elected. So there's no doubt that this century the Libs have been far more pro airport rail line than the party that is currently in power.
Bogong
Sorry Bogong but that statement is absolute rubbish and in fact the ALP has been far more honest about the Airport link than the Coalition. The Coalition are dishonest. The Coalition had NO intention of building the line. It was a thought bubble dreamed up by the then Planning Minister, yes Planning Minister Matthew Guy to appease developers and to distract from the lack of decent PT projects undertaken by the Liberals. There was no plan and no timeframe. Honestly the main takeaway I get from you Bogong is that you are the one with the selective memory. Remember the Coalition were elected on a Platform of improving Public Transport in this state and ending up trying to ram through a massive road project.

Michael
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Without being political, neither side has had any serious intention to build the Airport line as neither side has a workable financial solution and for the money they can achieve a hell of a lot more. The RFR project was done for far less than the Airport line.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

Without being political, neither side has had any serious intention to build the Airport line as neither side has a workable financial solution and for the money they can achieve a hell of a lot more. The RFR project was done for far less than the Airport line.
RTT_Rules

Having watched a video on youtube yesterday of a vline train bouncing it's way into SC from Seymour. I would think that maybe metro/vline should really be thinking about fixing the existing rail first before even thinking of building a new rail line to the airport. Seriously that couldn't be a comfortable ride with that much bouncing over wobbly track and mudhole after mudhole.
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

Location: Banned
Without being political, neither side has had any serious intention to build the Airport line as neither side has a workable financial solution and for the money they can achieve a hell of a lot more. The RFR project was done for far less than the Airport line.
RTT_Rules
Totally and utterly agree. A working solution even with a loop back to the Bendigo line could be built for a lot less money than what the major parties are advocating. The line to the Airport need not be a heavy rail electric service.

Michael
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
For my mind a line that basically only or mostly serves the airport is not a CSO and hence does not need a subsidy to operate as the line is an extension of a non subsidised flight. For the airport workers, they are entitled to a subsidy and this is easily managed. Other stations on the line servicing commuters are also subsidised as normal but ideally these stations and overall traffic limited as proportion of entire traffic.

The Airport line shouldn't also be seen as a mode of transport to get most of the passengers at any cost, but work along the lines of the 80:20 rule. As others have mentioned in other cities like Sydney, Brisbane, Heathrow etc, many clued up people go to great lengths to avoid the premium fares to the airport and catch local buses etc, so good luck to them and the revenue loss to lower the fares to catch those budget travellers would far exceed (by along shot) what ever the extra revenue they would generate and I'm sure the Railway Operators have done the sums.

As I've mentioned before the Melbourne Airport line is a mere tiny fraction of the Tulla Freeway traffic making up less than one lane of traffic on average 16hr a day, so this is not the answer to the freeway traffic problem.

I'm not sure if the Vic govt has attempted this, but I think they should go issue an invite to design, Build, Own and Operate, Transfer an Airport Line and perhaps this could include some sort of one off payments from the govt to help make it commercially viable. For example say $1B paid at achieving certain milestones and once up and running the govt is entitled to some of the farebox sharing should passengers number exceed certain numbers and in 35 years time, be transferred to the taxpayer (Like Brisbane).

Q as mentioned previously, Singapore and many other cities just have a shuttle to the main line. If the Line past Sunshine station is currently full of commuter services, would a shuttle to Sunshine Station be effective? Not perfect but get the ball rolling?
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Without being political, neither side has had any serious intention to build the Airport line as neither side has a workable financial solution and for the money they can achieve a hell of a lot more. The RFR project was done for far less than the Airport line.
Totally and utterly agree. A working solution even with a loop back to the Bendigo line could be built for a lot less money than what the major parties are advocating. The line to the Airport need not be a heavy rail electric service.

Michael
mejhammers1

Interesting option and have to wonder which is better.

I assume you mean branch off around Calder Park for which there are few obstructions. Over the top of Calder Freeway, flat terrain to the adjacent creek about 1km away, then flat terrain until the airport at which point the track would dive into a tunnel under the airport into an UG station below the terminal. Either over the top of the model plane club or nth of the creek and require a two creek crossing.

The airport would more than likely require 2km of tunnel to clear for future expansion. Whole thing could be single track except last 1000m and potentially the start to enable trains to wait off the main if needed before starting the single track section, pretty much along lines of Brisbane Airport line. Would you have a flat junction or fly over?

Q , how is this improve than coming off the freight line, don't both options use the same corridor into Melbourne for which others have said is currently crowded in peak (I assume is correct)? It would also seem further than starting from Sunshine and upgrading the existing ROW along the Freight line + green field track. Tunneling is never cheap.
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

Location: Banned
Without being political, neither side has had any serious intention to build the Airport line as neither side has a workable financial solution and for the money they can achieve a hell of a lot more. The RFR project was done for far less than the Airport line.
Totally and utterly agree. A working solution even with a loop back to the Bendigo line could be built for a lot less money than what the major parties are advocating. The line to the Airport need not be a heavy rail electric service.

Michael

Interesting option and have to wonder which is better.

I assume you mean branch off around Calder Park for which there are few obstructions. Over the top of Calder Freeway, flat terrain to the adjacent creek about 1km away, then flat terrain until the airport at which point the track would dive into a tunnel under the airport into an UG station below the terminal. Either over the top of the model plane club or nth of the creek and require a two creek crossing.

The airport would more than likely require 2km of tunnel to clear for future expansion. Whole thing could be single track except last 1000m and potentially the start to enable trains to wait off the main if needed before starting the single track section, pretty much along lines of Brisbane Airport line. Would you have a flat junction or fly over?

Q , how is this improve than coming off the freight line, don't both options use the same corridor into Melbourne for which others have said is currently crowded in peak (I assume is correct)? It would also seem further than starting from Sunshine and upgrading the existing ROW along the Freight line + green field track. Tunneling is never cheap.
RTT_Rules
What I meant is to use the existing BG freight Line field track, tunnelling through the Airport then green field back to the Bendigo line. Granted it would be a long way north of Calder Park.

Michael
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland

Interesting option and have to wonder which is better.

I assume you mean branch off around Calder Park for which there are few obstructions. Over the top of Calder Freeway, flat terrain to the adjacent creek about 1km away, then flat terrain until the airport at which point the track would dive into a tunnel under the airport into an UG station below the terminal. Either over the top of the model plane club or nth of the creek and require a two creek crossing.

The airport would more than likely require 2km of tunnel to clear for future expansion. Whole thing could be single track except last 1000m and potentially the start to enable trains to wait off the main if needed before starting the single track section, pretty much along lines of Brisbane Airport line. Would you have a flat junction or fly over?

Q , how is this improve than coming off the freight line, don't both options use the same corridor into Melbourne for which others have said is currently crowded in peak (I assume is correct)? It would also seem further than starting from Sunshine and upgrading the existing ROW along the Freight line + green field track. Tunneling is never cheap.
What I meant is to use the existing BG freight Line field track, tunnelling through the Airport then green field back to the Bendigo line. Granted it would be a long way north of Calder Park.

Michael
mejhammers1
I would be much better Is a RRL for the Bendigo line via Tulla Airport returned back to the Bendigo line somewhere around Calder Park ~ Diggers Rest, than with 2 extra tracks through to Macedon Street stone bridge (Sunbury Station would need to be expanded and Station Street level crossing removed)

The Idea of linking the a RRL back to the Bendigo line at Sunbury North ~ Clarkfield misses the rapidly growing activity centre of Sunbury (do they want to repeat the errors of Werribee been skipped by the Geelong line services)

It's hard to see Clarkfield becoming the activity centre for the Macedon Rangers region
  TOQ-1 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Power Trainger

Interesting option and have to wonder which is better.

I assume you mean branch off around Calder Park for which there are few obstructions. Over the top of Calder Freeway, flat terrain to the adjacent creek about 1km away, then flat terrain until the airport at which point the track would dive into a tunnel under the airport into an UG station below the terminal. Either over the top of the model plane club or nth of the creek and require a two creek crossing.

The airport would more than likely require 2km of tunnel to clear for future expansion. Whole thing could be single track except last 1000m and potentially the start to enable trains to wait off the main if needed before starting the single track section, pretty much along lines of Brisbane Airport line. Would you have a flat junction or fly over?

Q , how is this improve than coming off the freight line, don't both options use the same corridor into Melbourne for which others have said is currently crowded in peak (I assume is correct)? It would also seem further than starting from Sunshine and upgrading the existing ROW along the Freight line + green field track. Tunneling is never cheap.
What I meant is to use the existing BG freight Line field track, tunnelling through the Airport then green field back to the Bendigo line. Granted it would be a long way north of Calder Park.

Michael
I would be much better Is a RRL for the Bendigo line via Tulla Airport returned back to the Bendigo line somewhere around Calder Park ~ Diggers Rest, than with 2 extra tracks through to Macedon Street stone bridge (Sunbury Station would need to be expanded and Station Street level crossing removed)

The Idea of linking the a RRL back to the Bendigo line at Sunbury North ~ Clarkfield misses the rapidly growing activity centre of Sunbury (do they want to repeat the errors of Werribee been skipped by the Geelong line services)

It's hard to see Clarkfield becoming the activity centre for the Macedon Rangers region
Nightfire
I agree, cutting Sunbury off the Bendigo Line vastly underestimates the number of people who board/depart there heading to or from Bendigo. People from the Macedon Ranges and beyond head to Sunbury for shopping, education, health, and work. They also connect to get to places like Watergardens.

If you deviate the Bendigo Line from Sunbury at Clarkefield, the only real option you have is to extend the Metro services to Clarkefield, which given the population of Clarkefield (and the fact that the population can not be expanded due to a lack of sewage system and water, believe me the Council would love to put more housing in there), would not be a frequent service at all, so connecting would be complicated, especially as Metro and V/Line do not like playing nice with each other most of the time.
  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: Gheringhap Loop Autonomous Zone
I disagree. Fundamentally, what are the problems?
  • Bendigo V/Line trains have to ride behind Sunbury/Watergardens-bound Metro services, especially given the desire to increase Bendigo V/Line services to a regular 3 trains per hour and to vastly increase Sunbury Metro frequencies after the Metro Tunnel is completed
  • Melbourne Airport needs a railway line at some stage in the next 20 years, but only terminating suburban trains there isn't going to get you the critical mass of patronage that comes from both a high service frequency and doesn't give you the necessary express running paths once you get off the new branch.
This makes running Bendigo trains via Melbourne Airport a logical proposition. Regional trains are more suitable for airport express-style services in any case, both in configuration and inner-city stopping pattern.

So, with that established, what are the options?

Running Sunshine - Melbourne Airport - Diggers Rest gets you a partial bypass, which is better than nothing. It also allows Airport trains to travel direct to Sunbury, which has many residents that work at Melbourne Airport and would therefore benefit from a direct rail link. However, Sunbury station doesn't have enough room to establish extra platforms for properly terminating services as the frequency of service goes up.

The full-blown option (Sunshine - Melbourne Airport - north of Sunbury station) would require the establishment of a brand new interchange station somewhere between Sunbury and Clarkefield, set up as a proper dedicated interchange station with 4 or more platforms to properly terminate an extended Sunbury service, possibly also terminate suburban services running via Melbourne Airport + Melbourne Metro and allow Bendigo line trains to operate with restriction.


You don't have the 'Werribee Problem' if you extend Sunbury services to the new station from day one.

A greenfields station (i.e not using Clarkefield) would have a lot of space advantages compared to Sunbury, so it could built as a proper coach/bus interchange and also be used as a Park-and-Ride, giving Melbourne Airport services a larger patronage base. That could also allow the car parking around Sunbury station to be repurposed for appropriate commercial/residential etc. development. The weakness of the concept is that the new station wouldn't be near any 'trip generators' like shopping centres, dense residential areas, schools, business parks etc, ultimately restricting long-term patronage.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Hopefully I understand what you are getting at.

Basically you want to build the airport line
- Sunshine along the freight line
- greenfield line likely elevated to near airport
- dive into an underground airport station
- then tunnel under airport and come out west side
- mostly at grade to near Calder Park on the existing line
- Run all Bendigo trains via Airport, 3 x hour
- Run City to AIrport only on top of above as Bendigo trains are sized fir Bendigo not 20min to Airport. OR Spilt trains at airport which is not unusal.Munich do this at station before airport as line spilts. One branch to airport another to suburban line.
  PE2010 Station Master

Location: Newcastle
I'm a bit skeptical of the whole thing - I don't think $300M will get you much built in Victoria these days.
  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: Gheringhap Loop Autonomous Zone
Not in railway terms, anyhow.
  TOQ-1 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Power Trainger
The Mernda extension which is 8kms long + 3 stations +Stabling yard is going to cost somewhere around $600 million. The Ballarat Line Improvements involves 17kms of duplication + more passing loops + More stabling, and will cost $518 million. It entirely depends on where you build, and who delivers the project.

If it's rolled into the LXRA or Metro Tunnel authorities as these projects have done, they already have resources available to go. The main difference would be the land around the reserve to the airport is already built up, though it's mostly industrial so while it might make it a bit harder, it won't be as complicated as track works in a residential area.

The basic Airport Rail link would be about 13kms long, feature significant elevated (or underground) sections over the Ring Road, apparently an underground station, and a flyover at Albion (whether it joins to the RRL or suburban lines it doesn't really matter). One of the most costly parts would probably be a new viaduct over the Maribyrnong River.

$300 million wont come close to building it.
  SamTheMan79 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Geelong
$300m is for the planning of upgrading Southern Cross Station. Whilst not directly related to any airport rail link the HS have once again drawn a long bow....

From the article-

"The Sunday Herald Sun understands the State Government is aware of the company’s interest in ­partnering to build a train line to the airport, but it has not received any formal ­proposal.


IFM also owns Southern Cross station — where an airport train would run to and from — and has already submitted a market-led proposal for its upgrade.

This $300 million plan includes an elevated walkway, expanded bus ­terminal and longer train platforms to deal with a big pedestrian traffic ­increase."

$300m is not for the airport rail link.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
$300m would probably just get a complete rebuild of the existing Freight BG line along the corridor for the airport line.
  Flygon Train Controller

Location: Australia
Regarding the whole "Bendigo line via Airport" suggestion, why not extend Metro services to Gisborne, and get Riddles Creek and Clarkefield Station out of the mix for Bendigo line stoppers?

Of course, that itself would hit the issue where an all-stopping train from Gisborne to the CBD would take an incredibly long time, and I doubt Metro would ever have the capacity/discipline to run Gisborne services that run express Watergardens-Sunshine-Footscray-Yadyada. Confused

Not even getting into the fact that the line distance is enough that existing rollingstock would make any journey uncomfortably long anyway. Sprinters have toilets and jog along quickly for a reason.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Regarding the whole "Bendigo line via Airport" suggestion, why not extend Metro services to Gisborne, and get Riddles Creek and Clarkefield Station out of the mix for Bendigo line stoppers?

Of course, that itself would hit the issue where an all-stopping train from Gisborne to the CBD would take an incredibly long time, and I doubt Metro would ever have the capacity/discipline to run Gisborne services that run express Watergardens-Sunshine-Footscray-Yadyada. Confused

Not even getting into the fact that the line distance is enough that existing rollingstock would make any journey uncomfortably long anyway. Sprinters have toilets and jog along quickly for a reason.
Flygon
For the population and distance to Giisborne, cannot justified the cost.

All stopper to city from Gisborne would be about 1hr or just over, this is ok no toilet.

Regarding the operating strategy, I'm sure they can handle if needed.

1hr on a commuter train is fine, if you don't like the seating, stand!
  TOQ-1 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Power Trainger
Regarding the whole "Bendigo line via Airport" suggestion, why not extend Metro services to Gisborne, and get Riddles Creek and Clarkefield Station out of the mix for Bendigo line stoppers?

Of course, that itself would hit the issue where an all-stopping train from Gisborne to the CBD would take an incredibly long time, and I doubt Metro would ever have the capacity/discipline to run Gisborne services that run express Watergardens-Sunshine-Footscray-Yadyada. Confused

Not even getting into the fact that the line distance is enough that existing rollingstock would make any journey uncomfortably long anyway. Sprinters have toilets and jog along quickly for a reason.
Flygon
We have to draw the line at urban expansion somewhere. Sunbury is far enough for Urban Sprawl I think. We need to be encouraging smarter development around our regional stations, not more of the same to what we've had for the past however long.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
Regarding the whole "Bendigo line via Airport" suggestion, why not extend Metro services to Gisborne, and get Riddles Creek and Clarkefield Station out of the mix for Bendigo line stoppers?

Of course, that itself would hit the issue where an all-stopping train from Gisborne to the CBD would take an incredibly long time, and I doubt Metro would ever have the capacity/discipline to run Gisborne services that run express Watergardens-Sunshine-Footscray-Yadyada. Confused

Not even getting into the fact that the line distance is enough that existing rollingstock would make any journey uncomfortably long anyway. Sprinters have toilets and jog along quickly for a reason.
Flygon
A RRL (via Tullamarine airport) to Sunbury and Suburban train services terminating there, does open the door to convert the Bendigo line to standard gauge and forever separate regional train services from snail pace suburban services.

A cross country standard gauge railway would also link Tullamarine airport to Wallan
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Regarding the whole "Bendigo line via Airport" suggestion, why not extend Metro services to Gisborne, and get Riddles Creek and Clarkefield Station out of the mix for Bendigo line stoppers?

Of course, that itself would hit the issue where an all-stopping train from Gisborne to the CBD would take an incredibly long time, and I doubt Metro would ever have the capacity/discipline to run Gisborne services that run express Watergardens-Sunshine-Footscray-Yadyada. Confused

Not even getting into the fact that the line distance is enough that existing rollingstock would make any journey uncomfortably long anyway. Sprinters have toilets and jog along quickly for a reason.
A RRL (via Tullamarine airport) to Sunbury and Suburban train services terminating there, does open the door to convert the Bendigo line to standard gauge and forever separate regional train services from snail pace suburban services.

A cross country standard gauge railway would also link Tullamarine airport to Wallan
Nightfire
Would freight need to run via the airport line then?

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