Rail going nowhere

 
Topic moved from News by bevans on 13 Jan 2017 14:09
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
I think this ion my mind has highlighted just how crazy some of the claims coming out of shepparton are.  One minute they want more trains and faster ones at that now they want a massive development at the railway station.

Which is it?

Having not been to shepparton for some time what is the issue with the station where it is?  Is there not an overpass?

Rail going nowhere

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  simstrain Chief Commissioner

Here is an idea. Why not develop the air over the station so that it connects the CBD to the station in a safe manner. Removing the level crossings would be good as well.
  doyle Junior Train Controller

No Bevans it's awkward for people with disabilities to get to the centre more services and a station move would definitely improve the situation
  ARodH Chief Train Controller

Location: East Oakleigh, Vic
Going by Google maps, insufficient carparking ( about 50 places),  and no easy pedestrian access to the retail heart of Shep. There's probably also the same type of idots, like in Mildura, Horsham, Sale & Wodonga, that want to get rid of the station.
  woodford Chief Commissioner

Shifting the station at Shep would be an excellent idea. The car park is VERY restricted, there's around 36 spaces suitable only for small cars, You will NOT get a decent sized 4WD in them. To get to the city centre one  has to walk away from it to get to the closest level crossing. A station on the other side saves a walk of at least 500 metres. It will also give them much more elbow room for a Bus and taxi interchange also hopefully a car park one can "swing a cat" in, ie something with a bit of room. Say think of the old Wodonga station compared with the new one.

Neither Benalla or Wangarratta have a lot of room either (because of the old SG line) but at least in both places the car park has room for decent sized vehicles (remember.we are talking about small rural cities here).

The land on the other side from the station  from memory is the ways and works depot, it would be no trouble to shift that over to where the station is now, or even move it 160 metres directly south over to the other side of the line. it s just open ground there.

It would be a great chance to make the station a real show piece, that would do justice to a decent train service. Given the track record of the current VLIne administration I do not know though, they can't even run the Albury service properly.

woodford
  RustyRick Chief Commissioner

Location: South West Vic
The simple and relatively cheap solution would be relocate the maintenance depot and the sidings, demolish the remains of the freight yard and turn the area into more car parking / bus interchanges. Provide a good crossing near the north end of the platform and there you go. Easy access to Rowe St, and a block from Vaughan St and the Midland Hwy. Mind you, it's still a long way from the Shepparton marketplace which has taken a big chunk of the CBD shoppers.

Rick
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
What about the installation of a decent pedestrian bridge over the line, perhaps with direct platform access?
  Flygon Train Controller

Location: Australia
Why not just build a bridge?

EDIT - james.au beat me to it.
  woodford Chief Commissioner

Why not just build a bridge?

EDIT - james.au beat me to it.
"Flygon"


Why a bridge, currently the only movements north of the platform is the pass loco changing ends and  a Tocumwal freight say one movement a day. As Rustyrick says a pedestrian level crossing just north of the platform maybe with gates and flashing lights over to a car park with a decent bus interchange something akin to a jazzed up version of the one in Maude st, near the Coles supermarket.

Mind you a problem with shopping a t Shep these days is there is effectively 2 locations the so called central one centred on High st and Maude st. then the other area out on the Benalla rd, starting from around about  the Shep Market place, mainly on the south side of the road going out 700 metres to the to the roundabout at Doyles rd (bunnings on the north side of the road) and the traffic out there can be murder and there's NO pedestarion walk ways, you simply have to drive between these shops.. Shepparton council REALLY should have put a bit more thought into this.

Note: The shopping at Shep all though spread out all over the place is really excellent, far better than Wangaratta.

woodford
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
Why not just build a bridge?

EDIT - james.au beat me to it.


Why a bridge, currently the only movements north of the platform is the pass loco changing ends and  a Tocumwal freight say one movement a day. As Rustyrick says a pedestrian level crossing just north of the platform maybe with gates and flashing lights over to a car park with a decent bus interchange something akin to a jazzed up version of the one in Maude st, near the Coles supermarket.

Mind you a problem with shopping a t Shep these days is there is effectively 2 locations the so called central one centred on High st and Maude st. then the other area out on the Benalla rd, starting from around about  the Shep Market place, mainly on the south side of the road going out 700 metres to the to the roundabout at Doyles rd (bunnings on the north side of the road) and the traffic out there can be murder and there's NO pedestarion walk ways, you simply have to drive between these shops.. Shepparton council REALLY should have put a bit more thought into this.

Note: The shopping at Shep all though spread out all over the place is really excellent, far better than Wangaratta.

woodford
woodford

Plus some grain trains but yes point taken.  And they run at night anyway.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
What about the installation of a decent pedestrian bridge over the line, perhaps with direct platform access?
james.au

This was my point.  These bridges are common place at other main regional stations shuch as Geelong, Bendigo and Ballarat.

How many platforms exist at Shepparton?
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

Unfortunately over the years successive State governments and  Victrack have proved totally incapable of getting the private sector to develop these sort of opportunities, whilst ensuring that rail travellers get a good outcome .  Like at  Shepp on railway land a new private developer funded  Commercial development on the CBD side of the tracks with an appropriate passenger station, bus interchange of decent proportions within the development with parking for train travellers .

Victracks outstanding debacle in this regard is Traralgon where the developers took Victrack to the cleaners and left VLP with a hole in the wall booking office, no waiting room, a bank of six seats ,  shared toilets in a shopping centre, and a narrow platform with absolutely no weather protection .

Government needs to employ some people with a bit of mongrel to get appropriate private development where everyone wins,  Government, V/Line travellers, and the private developer with a good but not over the top outcome .
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
How many platforms exist at Shepparton?
bevans
UNO
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Unfortunately over the years successive State governments and  Victrack have proved totally incapable of getting the private sector to develop these sort of opportunities, whilst ensuring that rail travellers get a good outcome .  Like at  Shepp on railway land a new private developer funded  Commercial development on the CBD side of the tracks with an appropriate passenger station, bus interchange of decent proportions within the development with parking for train travellers .

Victracks outstanding debacle in this regard is Traralgon where the developers took Victrack to the cleaners and left VLP with a hole in the wall booking office, no waiting room, a bank of six seats ,  shared toilets in a shopping centre, and a narrow platform with absolutely no weather protection .

Government needs to employ some people with a bit of mongrel to get appropriate private development where everyone wins,  Government, V/Line travellers, and the private developer with a good but not over the top outcome .
kuldalai

Would you consider employing people at Victrack with some intelligence instead?
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

Why not just build a bridge?

EDIT - james.au beat me to it.
Flygon

I beat both of you to it. I said build in the airspace over the track and get rid of the level crossings at the same time.

My idea was for a concourse type thing instead of a bridge which could then connect to more carparking and a bus/taxi interchange.
  woodford Chief Commissioner

What about the installation of a decent pedestrian bridge over the line, perhaps with direct platform access?

This was my point.  These bridges are common place at other main regional stations shuch as Geelong, Bendigo and Ballarat.

How many platforms exist at Shepparton?
bevans
One, on the East side of the line.
  woodford Chief Commissioner

Unfortunately over the years successive State governments and  Victrack have proved totally incapable of getting the private sector to develop these sort of opportunities, whilst ensuring that rail travellers get a good outcome .  Like at  Shepp on railway land a new private developer funded  Commercial development on the CBD side of the tracks with an appropriate passenger station, bus interchange of decent proportions within the development with parking for train travellers .

Victracks outstanding debacle in this regard is Traralgon where the developers took Victrack to the cleaners and left VLP with a hole in the wall booking office, no waiting room, a bank of six seats ,  shared toilets in a shopping centre, and a narrow platform with absolutely no weather protection .

Government needs to employ some people with a bit of mongrel to get appropriate private development where everyone wins,  Government, V/Line travellers, and the private developer with a good but not over the top outcome .
kuldalai
I understand what you are getting at here, but a couple of points...............

The current, "private industry is everything" is a weakness of tne current major politcal parties, they want the power but they do not want to do anything them selves in case it blows up in there face, A study of history shows private concerns have almost never cared about anything but there own selfish interests.

My impression is though that the Shepparton city council wants something decent for a station as well as a proper train service.

woodford
  woodford Chief Commissioner

Why not just build a bridge?

EDIT - james.au beat me to it.

I beat both of you to it. I said build in the airspace over the track and get rid of the level crossings at the same time.

My idea was for a concourse type thing instead of a bridge which could then connect to more carparking and a bus/taxi interchange.
simstrain
That would be OK for some where like Camberwell in Melbourne where space is none existent, but that is not an issue at Shepparton, the cost of something like that I believe could not be justified for a new shep station. As to the level crossings neither one near the station are going to be easy to get rid of and with the lines current traffic you almost never see the crossings activated. In my many years of going over to shep, I have only seen them in operation once.

Although both High st and Hayes st are busy neither of them are on anything like fast sections of roads. Both of them have intersections almost immediately either side of the line and one has to watch carefully when approaching them are you WILL get cleaned up by another car

woodford
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
Neither Benalla or Wangarratta have a lot of room either (because of the old SG line) but at least in both places the car park has room for decent sized vehicles (remember.we are talking about small rural cities here).
woodford
If ever there was money to burn on station and streetscape beautification, crating more carparking and parkland/walking trails.
The opportunity now exist to run both the East and the West line through the railway yard (at both Benalla and Wangarratta)
A new West line platform would be needed at both locations (funny Benalla once had a platform 2 and 3 back In It's heyday) along with grade separated, full DDA compliant and sheltered pedestrian access between the platforms (Ideally an underpass Integrated Into the station building)

This done, the 1962 era standard gauge bypass of the stations and all associated Infrastructure can be demolished (station access road overpass at Benalla and the trench at Wangaratta)

New station forecourts can be established, with Improved bus Interchanges, more carparking, liner parklands with walking trails.

If a works program to Increase railway vertical height clearances along the Donnybrook to Parkes corridor was to be conducted, station track rearrangements may be a worth wile option (compared to sinking tracks and or rising station access road bridges)
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
If a works program to Increase railway vertical height clearances along the Donnybrook to Parkes corridor was to be conducted, station track rearrangements may be a worth wile option (compared to sinking tracks and or rising station access road bridges)
Nightfire

This is being tendered for now as part of Inland Rail - to create double stack ability from Tottenham to Illabo.  There is some sort of deviation being looked at for Wangaratta too.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

Why not just build a bridge?

EDIT - james.au beat me to it.

I beat both of you to it. I said build in the airspace over the track and get rid of the level crossings at the same time.

My idea was for a concourse type thing instead of a bridge which could then connect to more carparking and a bus/taxi interchange.
That would be OK for some where like Camberwell in Melbourne where space is none existent, but that is not an issue at Shepparton, the cost of something like that I believe could not be justified for a new shep station. As to the level crossings neither one near the station are going to be easy to get rid of and with the lines current traffic you almost never see the crossings activated. In my many years of going over to shep, I have only seen them in operation once.

Although both High st and Hayes st are busy neither of them are on anything like fast sections of roads. Both of them have intersections almost immediately either side of the line and one has to watch carefully when approaching them are you WILL get cleaned up by another car

woodford
woodford

So forget about the level crossing removals and just build some sort of amenity to the platform on the east side to the shops on the west side that is accessible.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia

This is being tendered for now as part of Inland Rail - to create double stack ability from Tottenham to Illabo.  There is some sort of deviation being looked at for Wangaratta too.
james.au

Via Shepparton?
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
No along the NESG, Seymour-Wang-Albury etc.
  gippslander Chief Commissioner

Location: Central Gippsland, Vic
Traralgon is indeed a shocking example of developers making a fortune over a vast and poorly planned redevelopment that will cost many millions to properly fix. As an RFR terminal it should be weighted alongside Ballarat and Bendigo, but it just presents as an afterthought in a sea of takeaway food shops. Because it is in a private development it gets virtually no maintenance and presents as a very tacky entry to the largest urban centre in eastern Victoria. Latrobe City Council did a new masterplan for the site a few years back but the much needed capital works are currently unfunded. The whole precinct needs a few D9s to flatten it and start again.
  RustyRick Chief Commissioner

Location: South West Vic
I agree Traralgon is a mess, but to be fair it was tacky well before RFR arrived.

Rick

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