Geelong rail expansion and electrification

 
  True Believers Chief Commissioner

Interesting comments and lots of interest in my thread. Here's what I have to say:

1. Avalon rail link
The rail link to Avalon is not part of the plan because not enough people to justify running regular trains. The previous government did a rail study into this link, bought the land then the project went silent and abandoned. The same happened with Doncaster and Rowville links, did the investigation and abandoned the project.


2. What type of electrification
Honestly have no clue which electrification to go for. You can have a look in this thread: https://www.railpage.com.au/f-p1978456.htm

Note; The objective to provide a plan for Geelong to have a proper city rail system for the future (30 years+). Light rail could happen very soon maybe 5-10 years as well as more bus services, rail duplication to Waurn ponds and keep land provision for future rail links. I compared the population of Geelong and its roughly the same as the population of Cairns.

Sponsored advertisement

  simstrain Chief Commissioner

The bus network was better a little over a year ago.

Trains run to Melbourne every 20 mins from South Geelong, so between the South Geelong and Lara, there is a 20 minute service anyway (on weekdays, and better peak period).

I'd favour AC electrification to Geelong. That way, we'd have our own trains, and not the crummy metro rollingstock. Something like the trains that run in Brisbane, on the Sunshine and Gold Coast lines, with toilets. However, I am not sure if AC and DC wires can cross each other. Someone else here can probably answer that one.
Camster

Where would AC and DC wires cross?

No reason an electric intercity train to Geelong couldn't be dual voltage. Make the RRL 15 or 25kv ac and if for some reason they need to move onto the 1500vdc network they can if they are dual voltage. We know that the vlocities could be made with 25kv AC as they are almost identical to the adelaide metro's A city class trains.
  x31 Chief Commissioner

Location: gallifrey
Interesting comments and lots of interest in my thread. Here's what I have to say:

1. Avalon rail link
The rail link to Avalon is not part of the plan because not enough people to justify running regular trains. The previous government did a rail study into this link, bought the land then the project went silent and abandoned. The same happened with Doncaster and Rowville links, did the investigation and abandoned the project.


2. What type of electrification
Honestly have no clue which electrification to go for. You can have a look in this thread: https://www.railpage.com.au/f-p1978456.htm

Note; The objective to provide a plan for Geelong to have a proper city rail system for the future (30 years+). Light rail could happen very soon maybe 5-10 years as well as more bus services, rail duplication to Waurn ponds and keep land provision for future rail links. I compared the population of Geelong and its roughly the same as the population of Cairns.
James974

Thks for the summary

How do we know the Avalon rail Link has been abandoned?  Can you please cite?
  True Believers Chief Commissioner

Interesting comments and lots of interest in my thread. Here's what I have to say:

1. Avalon rail link
The rail link to Avalon is not part of the plan because not enough people to justify running regular trains. The previous government did a rail study into this link, bought the land then the project went silent and abandoned. The same happened with Doncaster and Rowville links, did the investigation and abandoned the project.


2. What type of electrification
Honestly have no clue which electrification to go for. You can have a look in this thread: https://www.railpage.com.au/f-p1978456.htm

Note; The objective to provide a plan for Geelong to have a proper city rail system for the future (30 years+). Light rail could happen very soon maybe 5-10 years as well as more bus services, rail duplication to Waurn ponds and keep land provision for future rail links. I compared the population of Geelong and its roughly the same as the population of Cairns.

Thks for the summary

How do we know the Avalon rail Link has been abandoned?  Can you please cite?
x31

Well this is what happened with the Avalon Rail link, here is last news of it is here; http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/preferred-route-revealed-for-avalon-airport-rail-link-but-no-start-date-in-sight-20140919-10j748.html
Basically there was no commitment to build the rail link, no starting date, only planning approvals and land grab. After that there was a change of Government and the project was abandoned.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
....... which is exactly what The Vinelander said halfway down Page 1 of this very thread .......
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

Avalon Airport - 14 scheduled arrivals & departures a day
                     (as mentioned above, subsidised by State government)
Hobart Airport - 50+ scheduled arrivals & departures a day
Cairns Airport  - 100+ scheduled arrivals & departures a day
                     (includes internationals, excludes some small stuff such as Rex)
  Lad_Porter Chief Commissioner

Location: Yarra Glen
Doesn't make the people on those 14 flights any less deserving of decent public transport to/from the airport.
  True Believers Chief Commissioner

Doesn't make the people on those 14 flights any less deserving of decent public transport to/from the airport.
Lad_Porter
I've heard that there are shuttle buses available at Avalon airport. Melbourne airport rail link is more deserving than Avalon rail link. Melbourne airport access is much more congested than the one at Avalon, no doubt. When more flights are made at Avalon airport the land is already reserved so very easy to add. Whereas Melbourne Airport its a different story many easy routes are long and shorter routes require a lot of tunnelling.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
Doesn't make the people on those 14 flights any less deserving of decent public transport to/from the airport.
Lad_Porter
Bus services meet these flights, fair to say demand Is well catered for

https://www.skybus.com.au/avalon-city-express/

http://murrell.com.au/page.cfm?pageid=323
  Flygon Train Controller

Location: Australia
Doesn't make the people on those 14 flights any less deserving of decent public transport to/from the airport.
Lad_Porter
Hell, half the reason there's not that many flights is because of the lack of transport to Avalon Airport.

Half-hourly train to the Airport? I near guarantee you'd get a lot more birds coming in and out of the place.
  Camster Chief Commissioner

Location: Geelong
The bus network was better a little over a year ago.

Trains run to Melbourne every 20 mins from South Geelong, so between the South Geelong and Lara, there is a 20 minute service anyway (on weekdays, and better peak period).

I'd favour AC electrification to Geelong. That way, we'd have our own trains, and not the crummy metro rollingstock. Something like the trains that run in Brisbane, on the Sunshine and Gold Coast lines, with toilets. However, I am not sure if AC and DC wires can cross each other. Someone else here can probably answer that one.

Where would AC and DC wires cross?

No reason an electric intercity train to Geelong couldn't be dual voltage. Make the RRL 15 or 25kv ac and if for some reason they need to move onto the 1500vdc network they can if they are dual voltage. We know that the vlocities could be made with 25kv AC as they are almost identical to the adelaide metro's A city class trains.
simstrain
Thanks for the reply. I guess the wires would not cross at the moment, but if Melton was electrified, I would be guessing that they would do that line in DC.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat Line
Doesn't make the people on those 14 flights any less deserving of decent public transport to/from the airport.
Hell, half the reason there's not that many flights is because of the lack of transport to Avalon Airport.

Half-hourly train to the Airport? I near guarantee you'd get a lot more birds coming in and out of the place.
Flygon

As strange as it may seem...the aeroplanes arrivals/departures numbers increase before the public transport increases.

Nobody is going to run a frequent PT service to an airport with sparse flights serving that airport.

Mike.
  trainbrain Chief Commissioner

Doesn't make the people on those 14 flights any less deserving of decent public transport to/from the airport.
Hell, half the reason there's not that many flights is because of the lack of transport to Avalon Airport.

Half-hourly train to the Airport? I near guarantee you'd get a lot more birds coming in and out of the place.
Flygon
the only time Avalon will be busy is during the Airshows
  TOQ-1 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Power Trainger
The only reason I could see to open a rail link to Avalon in the short term would be to use it to provide more all stopping services to Wyndham Vale and then turning them back at Avalon. But as services can turn back at Wyndham Vale anyway, there's not much point to it.
  SamTheMan79 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Geelong
I didn't really know where to post this as there isn't a "Victorian Sightings" forum and it's not really a sighting but more an observation.

This morning I drove past the Geelong Station carpark on La Trobe Terrace. There we no less than 20 "engineers" all decked out with hard hats, hi vis vests, clipboards and measuring tapes & wheels.

Does anyone know of any planned works that might be coming up around the station whether it be the car park, stabling yard or anything else?
  x31 Chief Commissioner

Location: gallifrey
The bus network was better a little over a year ago.

Trains run to Melbourne every 20 mins from South Geelong, so between the South Geelong and Lara, there is a 20 minute service anyway (on weekdays, and better peak period).

I'd favour AC electrification to Geelong. That way, we'd have our own trains, and not the crummy metro rollingstock. Something like the trains that run in Brisbane, on the Sunshine and Gold Coast lines, with toilets. However, I am not sure if AC and DC wires can cross each other. Someone else here can probably answer that one.

Where would AC and DC wires cross?

No reason an electric intercity train to Geelong couldn't be dual voltage. Make the RRL 15 or 25kv ac and if for some reason they need to move onto the 1500vdc network they can if they are dual voltage. We know that the vlocities could be made with 25kv AC as they are almost identical to the adelaide metro's A city class trains.
simstrain

On a route where no electrification currently exists AC maybe the best choice.

AC electrification for western VLine network routes would be a far better view IMHO.  I mean have AC from Waurn Ponds to SCS via Tarneit and Deer Park and Sunshine via the RRl platforms and then from there RRL to the city until we get into the DC area and then use the dual voltage capability.

Sparks would not require this route anyhow as in metro trains.

Make the next route Deer Park to West of Ballarat using AC and then you have two routes with high capacity vline trains.  Makes sense to me?
  trainbrain Chief Commissioner

I didn't really know where to post this as there isn't a "Victorian Sightings" forum and it's not really a sighting but more an observation.

This morning I drove past the Geelong Station carpark on La Trobe Terrace. There we no less than 20 "engineers" all decked out with hard hats, hi vis vests, clipboards and measuring tapes & wheels.

Does anyone know of any planned works that might be coming up around the station whether it be the car park, stabling yard or anything else?
SamTheMan79
they were busy around the bbq talking rubbish and how to con the taxpayer
  True Believers Chief Commissioner

This morning I drove past the Geelong Station carpark on La Trobe Terrace. There we no less than 20 "engineers" all decked out with hard hats, hi vis vests, clipboards and measuring tapes & wheels.

Does anyone know of any planned works that might be coming up around the station whether it be the car park, stabling yard or anything else?
they were busy around the bbq talking rubbish and how to con the taxpayer
trainbrain
Pessimistic view: They were busy at the BBQ talking rubbish and how to con the taxpayer.

Optimistic view: This is all I can find is this but has nothing to do with anywhere near the Geelong station
http://www.premier.vic.gov.au/getting-it-done-for-geelong/
  SamTheMan79 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Geelong
This morning I drove past the Geelong Station carpark on La Trobe Terrace. There we no less than 20 "engineers" all decked out with hard hats, hi vis vests, clipboards and measuring tapes & wheels.

Does anyone know of any planned works that might be coming up around the station whether it be the car park, stabling yard or anything else?
they were busy around the bbq talking rubbish and how to con the taxpayer
Pessimistic view: They were busy at the BBQ talking rubbish and how to con the taxpayer.

Optimistic view: This is all I can find is this but has nothing to do with anywhere near the Geelong station
http://www.premier.vic.gov.au/getting-it-done-for-geelong/
James974
I should have added the hi vis tops were plain, V/Line and John Holland.
  Moncar Station Staff

You dont need a line to avalon as a separate line. If you included it as a run around loop for returning trains to lara or as an alternate route continuing to werribee would work. Plus it seems everyone forgets the maintenance staff linfox staff and all the other smaller airline employees who would use the service. Also there is the fact that cotton on will be moving its distribution facilities to avalon as well as  the company building electric vehicles there. The site is more than an airport with four planes a day.
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

There aren't any airlines at Avalon, big or small, other than Jetstar (14 flights a day). Many more people would have worked there up until the mid-80s, building Sabres, Canberras, Mirages & F/A-18s. What demand there currently is would only be a small AM & PM peak Monday to Friday, which could be adequately covered by a shuttle bus to and from Lara.

Keep the land reserved for a future rail link.
  True Believers Chief Commissioner

This thread has morphed into from Geelong electrification to whether we build a rail link to Avalon Airport. Well it will be built in the future when the demand is there. Rail links to Armstrong creek and Drysdale are more urgent on the list yet have no planning or funding at all. This is why I put out my plan up for discussion how to provide these links and the possibility to electrify the Geelong rail corridor. The Inner city of Geelong where all the bus routes funnel in is suitable for a short tram route from Geelong station to Geelong beach and Botanical gardens can happen as well to revitalise the city centre. I know these things will cost a lot of money but is definitely needed to provide sufficient public transport to Geelong when it population increases.

If you like to discuss more about Avalon rail link, your welcome to create a seperate thread on this topic.
  Tony M. Locomotive Driver

Some kind of tourist tram from Geelong station to the foreshore is pretty much the only kind of tram I could see ever getting up in Geelong. The powers that be in G-town are largely the kind of small businessmen who see tourism as a money-spinner but public transport as something that delivers undesirables to the "nice" parts of town.

Extending the Vline links is another matter entirely, and considering the rapid expansion on the fringes of town various extensions of the train line should be being treated a lot more seriously than they currently are, even if only for the sake of forward planning.
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

This thread has morphed into from Geelong electrification to a debate ...
"James974"



The topic is Geelong rail expansion and electrification.
  True Believers Chief Commissioner

This thread has morphed into from Geelong electrification to a debate ...



The topic is Geelong rail expansion and electrification.
kitchgp
Avalon Airport is not considered as a project that would benefit Geelong in the short term, it most likely serve people of Melbourne not Geelong. Yes it does fit this topic but I rather it be discussed separately. Ok I admit made the topic quite general because involves a package of works it to expand the network ASAP. But Avalon Airport connection is different because it does not a growth corridor and is not part of the scope of works. When the RRL is electrified and connected with the Geelong expanded network, then I'll consider Avalon Airport as a potential future project when it has the demand for it.

Sponsored advertisement

Display from:   

Quick Reply

We've disabled Quick Reply for this thread as it was last updated more than six months ago.