Doncaster and Airport rail line routes should be reconsidered

 
  True Believers Chief Commissioner

Doncaster Rail

Just curious whether the Doncaster rail line ever gets built. I prefer not go through the freeway reservation and more nearer to kew junction and the housing though was deemed too expensive in the rail study. The preferred route that the study wanted was to run through a freeway reservation and only serve the outer edges of the suburbs and terminate at the park and ride. If chosen the cheap option it require an overhaul of the buses to serve the station and rely on huge carparks to attract people catching the train. Obviously Metro 2 must be built for either option so they selected the cheaper option, but honestly if they tunnelled through, development can flourish along the route and bring extra benefit. Is it worth the cost, Im not quite sure

Here's a map I came up with today: Go ahead and discuss this its awesome (uses part of the old city circle route)

Key; Green tunnelling, Red ground level with grade separations, Pink Cut and Cover, Black is possible extension using cut and cover.

Airport rail

I also feel the same way about the Airport rail line if it ever gets built. It could of had a route that served potentially three shopping centres but tunnelling made it expensive so chose the Albion route. But the possibility that HighPoint shopping centre gets a station and places like Niddrie, Kelior east, Airport West suburbs can also be served by a railway. Honestly think that the extra costs is worth the benefit having the rail line striking the middle of these black spots for fast easy access public transport.

Map for Airport rail line is here at last:

Key; same as previous

You can see the potential extension to Sunbury above.

For a Full view of map link: https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?hl=en&hl=en&authuser=0&authuser=0&mid=1gNABXf2b5ebkIVfP4n7TweezisU&ll=-37.734612725937275%2C144.84661756461117&z=12

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  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
I think the plans for Doncaster were a branch from Victoria Park along the freeway but I believe this was re-considered as an extension of a line from what is now going to be part of the Melbourne Metro branching off at Parkville with a station at Clifton Hill and thence to Donaster (with station under Doncaster Shoppingtown) and thence further east.

Is this still viable?
  mk4c Station Master

The original route heading off along Thompsons Rd and terminating at Blackburn Rd made some sort of sense, but the only real option left now is virtually an express line to Doncaster Park and Ride with perhaps one more station at Bulleen Rd. Not exactly best bang for your buck if you are looking at benefitting the most number of passengers for the least amount of money.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
You could have a Kew North station with overpass pedestrian access to the Kilby Rd area. Kilby Rd is served by 200 and 207 bus routes so pax could change for a quicker trip in/out of the cbd.
  slowcoach Junior Train Controller

MELBOURNE AIRPORT LINE
- I expect most passengers be airport workers and commuters catching their international and domestic flights hence it would be logical to build it underground beneath Terminal 1 or 2. Therefore the trains to service this station should have luggage racks like you see in V'Locity regional trains which is lacking in our current metro trains fleets.
- I've seen fantasy maps of Melbourne Airport being a terminus station for metropolitan services. But what if this station also had a through pathway for regional trains towards Bendigo, Swan Hill and Echuca? People living in Victoria's northwest deserve to have rail access to the airport too rather than a bus service.
- Because we expect millions of people to use the station every year, I believe at least 6 to 8 platforms should be built around 230 m long for the 9-car regional trains and the future 10-car high capacity trains once Melbourne Metro is fully constructed. At least 2 through platforms will provide a pathway for Bendigo trains to link up with the main line near Clarkefield. At least 4 platforms for terminating metropolitan services coming from the city via Albion and proposed new lines to Essendon Fields and Greenvale linking up with the current Upfield and Flemington Racecourse lines respectively.
- PI displays, station signage and announcements should be displayed and spoken respectively in multiple languages like French, German, Russian, Spanish, Chinese, Vietnamese, Punjabi, Sinhalase, Greek and Italian.
- If you want to make this project have a largely positive cost-benefit ratio or economically viable, meaning this project can yield more value for money, you have to consider building the line along corridors where most residents situate and live at any given time of the day. i.e. I read reports of a proposal for a Melbourne Airport line extension branching off from Albion following the Albion East freight corridor. It would be logical to build 2 extra tracks given metro trains the right of way and new stations at Sunshine North, Keilor East, Airport West and Gladstone Park connecting with current overcrowded bus services that most people currently depend upon.
- No doubt, this project will create more jobs and a much-needed addition to our current rail network. However it would be interesting to understand the disruptions it may cause during the construction phase which I lack knowledge in.

I will post my thoughts and ideas on the Doncaster Line later. Feel free to add in any necessary details.
  True Believers Chief Commissioner

You could have a Kew North station with overpass pedestrian access to the Kilby Rd area. Kilby Rd is served by 200 and 207 bus routes so pax could change for a quicker trip in/out of the cbd.
BrentonGolding
The map is up to see, yes I have put a Kew North station at Kilby Road, good to know it is well served with buses
  True Believers Chief Commissioner

The big reveal, a new maps added for both rail lines I have proposed. NOTE; Melbourne metro tunnel 1 and 2 need to be built first before both these rail lines happen.
  Rodo Chief Commissioner

Location: Southern Riverina
You could have a Kew North station with overpass pedestrian access to the Kilby Rd area. Kilby Rd is served by 200 and 207 bus routes so pax could change for a quicker trip in/out of the cbd.
The map is up to see, yes I have put a Kew North station at Kilby Road, good to know it is well served with buses
James974
A station there was planned by most of the past schemes.
  slowcoach Junior Train Controller

DONCASTER LINE
- Ever since the 1960s, I have heard non-stop cries for a rail link to this so-called public transport black spot where only DART (Doncaster Area Rapid Transit) buses service the area. I can sense the envy and desperation of residents living in Doncaster Hill, Doncaster East, Donvale, North Balwyn, Bulleen, Templestowe and Warrandyte because I have many friends living in those suburbs. I think there was a proposal to build the rail line around 1969 but I don't know what caused the backflip on this rail extension.
- There's a proposal to branch the Doncaster Line off Victoria Park and then running along the median strip in the middle of the Eastern Freeway. After my trips to China where rail lines are built in the middle of freeways, would it be better to build the railway on concrete bridges allowing traffic underneath to perform emergency stops or U-turns instead building it on ground level like you see in Perth?
-- Here are my ideas for new stations:
Above Ground:
- Kew / Willsmere (Chandler Rd)
- North Balwyn (Burke Rd)
- Bulleen (Thompsons & Bulleen Rds)
Underground:
- Doncaster Park & Ride (Doncaster Rd)
- Doncaster or Doncaster Hill (Doncaster Westfield Shoppingtown, Doncaster & Tram Rds)
- Doncaster East
- Donvale
The locations for the new stations are yet to be specified with the talks mainly focuses on the Doncaster Station. Learning from railway networks around the world, it would be best to build them as island stations with the option of platform screen doors and shops in the concourse. There are options to locate Doncaster station beneath the shopping centre carpark, bus interchange or Level B1 of Westfield, but that depends on ground conditions and the underground services located beneath the shopping centre such as electricity, water, gas and telecommunications.
- The type of trains to run on this line should be similar to our current fleet, like the 6 car
X-trapolis trains with frequencies at minimum of 10 mins because I expect many residents to switch from their private cars and buses to the trains.
- However, all this cannot happen without completion of Metro Tunnels 1 & 2, as trains from the railway line can cause more disruption and congestion in the city loop and between the city and Clifton Hill. It would be a nightmare for the signalmen to change the points and signals at every few minutes at Victoria Park and Clifton Hill during peak hours.
- Finally the main obstacles are cost and political will and it would be difficult to persuade a government to commence a thorough study and then construction of the new railway line depending on the electorate member and the party in power but that's for another discussion.
  Radioman Chief Train Controller

Dear Slowcoach and others,

Re Tullamarine . If your intention is basically to give workers around Tullamarine workplaces better public transport , would not an extension of the existing tram line through the industrial area to the aircraft Maintenace area be a better solution . The distance required is relatively short , it builds on an existing resource and no really major engineering work is required.

The current AirBus service from Southern Cross to Tullamarine via the Freeway earns the State over a million dollars a year , I do not see any State Government being in a hurry to kiss goodbye to that particular revenue stream.

Best wishes and regards, Radioman
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
Melbourne Airport is a very different proposition to Doncaster. Melbourne Airport could feasibly be built and ready in time for the opening of Melbourne Metro 1. The question is, what is a higher priority, Melbourne Airport or Melton? Either of these lines would work well with Melbourne Metro and could be completed intime to use the Metro on day 1, but both may be a bit of a push. At the moment, I believe the current government are more inclined towards the full electrification of the line to Melton, and Melbourne Airport is not of as high a priority.

As for Doncaster, you yourself said Metro 2 would need to be completed before any Doncaster line could open. Theoretically there is no reason they couldn't be built together to open at the same time, but likely nothing is to be done until some time after Metro 1 is complete late in the next deacade, so don't hold your breath.
  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: Gheringhap Loop Autonomous Zone
The preferred route that the study wanted was to run through a freeway reservation and only serve the outer edges of the suburbs and terminate at the park and ride.
James974
The Doncaster Rail Study route had the Doncaster Park & Ride slated as the end of stage 1. Stage 2 being the 100% tunnelled extension to Westfield Doncaster. It was broken up into two stages in order to make the hideous cost of driving a rail tunnel under Doncaster Hill more palatable to politicians.

If chosen the cheap option it require an overhaul of the buses to serve the station and rely on huge carparks to attract people catching the train.
James974
Overhauling bus services is massively cheaper than driving tunnels. As for carparks? The Doncaster Rail Study didn't propose building any new ones, only possibly expanding the one at the Doncaster Park & Ride (which is already and would remain also a major bus interchange).

Your proposed route does not address the actual underlying issues that delay the construction of a railway line to Doncaster:
  • Connecting to the Metro network would probably require inner-city capacity upgrades for the Clifton Hill group of lines to be bought forward
  • Tunnelling from Doncaster Park & Ride through to Doncaster Hill is hideously expensive and is completely unavoidable for a heavy rail line


Instead, it adds even more tunnelling. And for what benefit?

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, the Victorian Transport Action Group's Route 100 Light Rail Transit proposal is a far better alternative to a heavy rail line to Doncaster.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
Yep extend tram route 48 to Box Hill via Doncaster, done there's your Doncaster rail link !

As for the DART, build a grade separated busway from the middle of the Eastern Freeway to a bus/train Interchange at Victoria Park Station (old yard area)
Relocate the Eastern Freeway bus lanes to the far right hand lanes (so buses don't get tangled up with merging traffic coming In and out of the freeway ramps)
Possibility to upgrade the bus lanes to dual bus / tram fairways.
  True Believers Chief Commissioner

Yep extend tram route 48 to Box Hill via Doncaster, done there's your Doncaster rail link !

As for the DART, build a grade separated busway from the middle of the Eastern Freeway to a bus/train Interchange at Victoria Park Station (old yard area)
Relocate the Eastern Freeway bus lanes to the far right hand lanes (so buses don't get tangled up with merging traffic coming In and out of the freeway ramps)
Possibility to upgrade the bus lanes to dual bus / tram fairways.
Nightfire
It's more complicated than this since a tram and bus combo has limiting capacity and need full segeration from traffic. I totally agree in the short term the DART system can be upgraded to have full time bus lanes through the whole route and maybe double decker buses introduced within 5 years. Tram route is great but cost alot to deliver a small extension and provide not much extra capacity. But a train line could potentially reduce congestion at the Eastern Freeway and allow more housing in existing areas not in the outer fringes and add the needed capacity. Train line is a longer term 30 years when there is enough people in that area that buses can't cope any extra demand.
  Radioman Chief Train Controller

Hello All

I agree with both messrs LancedDendrite and Nightfire's alternative proposals as being more suited to the area in question . I would add that the tram / LRT should be extended to Mitcham station, or even down to Canterbury Rd as there is a surprising amount of traffic throughout the day that uses this particular route , and a frequent tram service connecting Canterbury Rd , Mitcham station and Doncaster Shopping Centre would give the surrounding area a proper public transport service which I believe would be well supported .

It would also give a lot more travel options and interconnections at the Doncaster Interchange.

For your consideration , best wishes and regards, Radioman.
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
I personally think that both extending the tram to Westfield/The Pines and the existing bus services would be best for Doncaster, at least in the short term. Rail funds should be spent on upgrading the existing rail network before embarking on new extensions.
  True Believers Chief Commissioner

I personally think that both extending the tram to Westfield/The Pines and the existing bus services would be best for Doncaster, at least in the short term. Rail funds should be spent on upgrading the existing rail network before embarking on new extensions.
railblogger
Agreed, I great spot to put trams would be put them on Tram Rd (which is a road that doesn't have trams) so goes via Box Hill and into the city.
  Myrtone Chief Commissioner

Location: North Carlton, Melbourne, Victoria
Did anyone here know that the Doncaster line was originally going to be an extension of the Kew line?
  True Believers Chief Commissioner

Did anyone here know that the Doncaster line was originally going to be an extension of the Kew line?
Myrtone
Did you know there was going to be a direct link to Victoria Park to the City Loop, but later scrapped it, Could of made it easier today since Metro 2 will cost billions to add later.



And the Eastern Freeway was intentionally wide for a railway to cut through as well. I was demonstrating just another route where a rail link could happen. The Doncaster rail study in 2013 chose the Freeway option as its preferred alignment including the Metro 2.
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

Dear Slowcoach and others,

Re Tullamarine . If your intention is basically to give workers around Tullamarine workplaces better public transport , would not an extension of the existing tram line through the industrial area to the aircraft Maintenace area be a better solution . The distance required is relatively short , it builds on an existing resource and no really major engineering work is required.

The current AirBus service from Southern Cross to Tullamarine via the Freeway earns the State over a million dollars a year , I do not see any State Government being in a hurry to kiss goodbye to that particular revenue stream.

Best wishes and regards, Radioman
Radioman
And that just sums up what absolute shizen Victoria is when it comes to Public Transport, that a much needed boost to mass transit to the Airport is being put on the back burner for a lousy $1 Million a year. What a joke!!!

Personally I would like to see the Bendigo line routed through the airport.

Michael
  John.Z Assistant Commissioner

Did anyone here know that the Doncaster line was originally going to be an extension of the Kew line?
Did you know there was going to be a direct link to Victoria Park to the City Loop, but later scrapped it, Could of made it easier today since Metro 2 will cost billions to add later.



And the Eastern Freeway was intentionally wide for a railway to cut through as well. I was demonstrating just another route where a rail link could happen. The Doncaster rail study in 2013 chose the Freeway option as its preferred alignment including the Metro 2.
James974
We are lucky they never built that one way track. Would be of 0 usefulness or helpfulness for metro 2, and might even get in the way
  True Believers Chief Commissioner

Did anyone here know that the Doncaster line was originally going to be an extension of the Kew line?
Did you know there was going to be a direct link to Victoria Park to the City Loop, but later scrapped it, Could of made it easier today since Metro 2 will cost billions to add later.



And the Eastern Freeway was intentionally wide for a railway to cut through as well. I was demonstrating just another route where a rail link could happen. The Doncaster rail study in 2013 chose the Freeway option as its preferred alignment including the Metro 2.
We are lucky they never built that one way track. Would be of 0 usefulness or helpfulness for metro 2, and might even get in the way
John.Z
It would of been useful since you just make it go one direction in the peak time. Morning peak it could go into the loop and Afternoon can allow train leave. To convert into metro 2 would disable connections into loop, add an extra tunnel behind existing one, and extend it across to Southern Cross, Fishermans bend and finally into Newport. Much cheaper since some of the works have been done, and would of benefited those lines in the North East.
  John.Z Assistant Commissioner

Did anyone here know that the Doncaster line was originally going to be an extension of the Kew line?
Did you know there was going to be a direct link to Victoria Park to the City Loop, but later scrapped it, Could of made it easier today since Metro 2 will cost billions to add later.



And the Eastern Freeway was intentionally wide for a railway to cut through as well. I was demonstrating just another route where a rail link could happen. The Doncaster rail study in 2013 chose the Freeway option as its preferred alignment including the Metro 2.
We are lucky they never built that one way track. Would be of 0 usefulness or helpfulness for metro 2, and might even get in the way
It would of been useful since you just make it go one direction in the peak time. Morning peak it could go into the loop and Afternoon can allow train leave. To convert into metro 2 would disable connections into loop, add an extra tunnel behind existing one, and extend it across to Southern Cross, Fishermans bend and finally into Newport. Much cheaper since some of the works have been done, and would of benefited those lines in the North East.
James974
I beg to disagree, but I won't argue semantics for the sake of it. The sooner we untangle the city loop making it direct paths east-west the better, and metro2 is definately worth while being completely built from scratch.

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