Like many things, good concepts also require good management and good systems and good support systems. There are reasons these countries/cities succeeded and others failed.

But you keep talking about it as if "all we have to do is lower the corporate tax rate to zero and Bob's your Uncle" when obviously it's not that simple.

Personally I feel this is an insult to anyone to pay such a high rate of tax. Yes there are those born with a silver spoon in their mouth, but much of this income bracket are those who studied hard, worked hard and took personal financial risks and usually creating jobs for others in the process.

Again with the worship of people with money. What about the majority of mega-wealthy in this country who inherited their wealth or got it through windfall - or are all rich people super-deserving and nice?

We do not need taxpayers money to pay for people to breed (often from the lower end of the gene pool), its far cheaper to bring in cashed up and educated immigrants who usually have qualifications earned elsewhere and add more positively to the gene pool.

I'm sure Herr Hitler would have loved your eugenics program - breed the poor out of existence, I like it. Replace them with Aryan super migrants with bags of cash who are obviously genetically superior because they have education and/or money.

Delightful.

Like many things, good concepts also require good management and good systems and good support systems. There are reasons these countries/cities succeeded and others failed.

But you keep talking about it as if "all we have to do is lower the corporate tax rate to zero and Bob's your Uncle" when obviously it's not that simple.

Personally I feel this is an insult to anyone to pay such a high rate of tax. Yes there are those born with a silver spoon in their mouth, but much of this income bracket are those who studied hard, worked hard and took personal financial risks and usually creating jobs for others in the process.

Again with the worship of people with money. What about the majority of mega-wealthy in this country who inherited their wealth or got it through windfall - or are all rich people super-deserving and nice?

We do not need taxpayers money to pay for people to breed (often from the lower end of the gene pool), its far cheaper to bring in cashed up and educated immigrants who usually have qualifications earned elsewhere and add more positively to the gene pool.

I'm sure Herr Hitler would have loved your eugenics program - breed the poor out of existence, I like it. Replace them with Aryan super migrants with bags of cash who are obviously genetically superior because they have education and/or money.

Delightful.

Clearly Don there is more detail to any idea or concept than what either you or I or anyone puts on the table here.

Look up Singapore,
- why is it the world's 3rd largest producer of refined oil products and doesn't even have a oil well in its entire country? which makes up 26% of their GDP
- Why is gold 3% of its GDP and its doesn't even have a gold mine?
- Why does it have the highest density of millionaires in the world?
etc

Answer
- Near zero corruption - Yes Australia can come close to that
- Ease of doing business, its 7th, Australia has dropped to mid teens
- Low corporate tax rates

It also has very low unemployment at only a few % which means it can pay substantially higher welfare to those in genuine need, including up to $166,000 in baby bonuses. Why is the unemployment so low, because foreign companies want to do business there and take business from other countries in the process.


Inherited wealth lasts only as long as the it takes to spend it if the receiver is not up to the same capacity as the one who generated it. I think we probably have both seen receiptants of substantial wills blow it within months to years. An industry study of Lotto receipants demonstrated that many would be lucky to pass on their new wealth to their off-spring having pi$$ed it up against the wall often within only a few years.


12 years ago when I first visited a fin advisory and we got onto the topic of Australia's new "baby bonus", she brought out a interesting document which was research carried out by the ATO on who was breeding in Australia. It showed that up until 2004, the middle and mid upper class reproduction rates were dropping to some of the world's lowest and this was based on affordability.  ie people are not having kids because they cannot afford them. The Age distribution curve showed how this was going to cause a Japanese like disparity within a few decades.

The next problem was a large portion of the children being born were to families who belonged to groups that have generational unemployed or poor employment history and multiple broken homes in the one family and had the lowest retention rates at school and worst police records. Projected forward Australia would need significant levels of immigration to fill the jobs required to look after our aging population as too many of our own off-spring cannot even feed themselves. Hence the Baby Bonus, although it was poorly done and may have added to the problem.

However, my point is. Why do we need to pay people, from any socio-economic backgrounds to breed beyond average. If you want 6 kids, go for it. But working or not, why do we have to pay for your lifestyle choice? and more so this applies to those who choose not to contribute to society financially. As I said from what I've been told the UK has a welfare cap to prevent welfare homes having incomes exceeding that of the working middle class, which happens all to often in Australia.

Look up Singapore...

Why would I want to live in somewhere as un-democratic and controlling as that police state? Not a good example.

Inherited wealth lasts only as long as the it takes to spend it if the receiver is not up to the same capacity as the one who generated it. I think we probably have both seen receiptants of substantial wills blow it within months to years. An industry study of Lotto receipants demonstrated that many would be lucky to pass on their new wealth to their off-spring having pi$$ed it up against the wall often within only a few years.

So help them along by having higher tax rates for those who can afford to pay like Finland.

12 years ago when I first visited a fin advisory and we got onto the topic of Australia's new "baby bonus", she brought out a interesting document which was research carried out by the ATO on who was breeding in Australia. It showed that up until 2004, the middle and mid upper class reproduction rates were dropping to some of the world's lowest and this was based on affordability. ie people are not having kids because they cannot afford them. The Age distribution curve showed how this was going to cause a Japanese like disparity within a few decades. The next problem was a large portion of the children being born were to families who belonged to groups that have generational unemployed or poor employment history and multiple broken homes in the one family and had the lowest retention rates at school and worst police records. Projected forward Australia would need significant levels of immigration to fill the jobs required to look after our aging population as too many of our own off-spring cannot even feed themselves. Hence the Baby Bonus, although it was poorly done and may have added to the problem. However, my point is. Why do we need to pay people, from any socio-economic backgrounds to breed beyond average. If you want 6 kids, go for it. But working or not, why do we have to pay for your lifestyle choice? and more so this applies to those who choose not to contribute to society financially. As I said from what I've been told the UK has a welfare cap to prevent welfare homes having incomes exceeding that of the working middle class, which happens all to often in Australia.

IN the first place - immigrants themselves age - and subsequently end up on Centrelink too. It's been debunked many times that importing more people heads this off - it doesn't, it will make Centrelink dependency much worse in the long run, especially with family reunion programs.

In the second place, your beloved banks are directly responsible for working people not being able to afford to have children, a point that you consistently avoid because it doesn't fit in with your narrative.

In the third place - what do you think will happen to the people you doom to the poverty trap by importing wealthy, educated migrants. Do you think they might (maybe) resent them? Get angry and vote for someone on the fringes?

Hello RTT ! DON and others,

Re Singapore , it is well run in the old Chinese Society sense of well run. Chinese Societies are not necessarily corrupt , but when they become corrupt they do that very well too, Chiang Kai Shek being the exception to that. ( US Army General Joe Stillwell ended up having no time for Chiang and kept warning Washington that is does the talk, Chiang was well connected in Washington ,  but does not deliver and ran a grossly corrupt regime. In 1944 the whole of US supplied famine relief was stolen and sold on the Black Market , and in the Post WW2 Civil War two of Chiang's Armies defected to the Reds. )

Singapore has long been the transshipment port for SE Asia , hence the Oil Refineries , as crude is less volatile than petrol. As oil is refined from crude in Singapore there is a lot of distillate, hence diesels road vehicles are common, and hence why we import petrol from Singapore as their output exceeds their demand . Singapore has long been very stable post WW2 , unlike its largest neighbour , Indonesia, and it has good connections to The Malaya Peninsula . As international shipping got larger , Singapore's adjacent deep waterways were more suitable than Penang , so international cross trades moved south. Singapore is also on the main shipping route from Europe to and from South China , so although Hong Kong is a major port in its own right, Singapore justifies a stop over. And one stop over covers both Indonesia and the Malaysian Federation. Most Singaporeans speak and write good English , and English is the world trade language, and most Singaporeans speak both Mandarin / Modern Chinese and usually one other Chinese dialect. Hence Singapore has a number of attributes which enhances its economic position.

And finally, unlike Australia, Singapore reveres academic achievement and insists on good educational results. Even that is a lesson our country too often neglects

Best wishes and regards, Radioman

Look up Singapore...

Why would I want to live in somewhere as un-democratic and controlling as that police state? Not a good example.

Inherited wealth lasts only as long as the it takes to spend it if the receiver is not up to the same capacity as the one who generated it. I think we probably have both seen receiptants of substantial wills blow it within months to years. An industry study of Lotto receipants demonstrated that many would be lucky to pass on their new wealth to their off-spring having pi$$ed it up against the wall often within only a few years.

So help them along by having higher tax rates for those who can afford to pay like Finland.

12 years ago when I first visited a fin advisory and we got onto the topic of Australia's new "baby bonus", she brought out a interesting document which was research carried out by the ATO on who was breeding in Australia. It showed that up until 2004, the middle and mid upper class reproduction rates were dropping to some of the world's lowest and this was based on affordability. ie people are not having kids because they cannot afford them. The Age distribution curve showed how this was going to cause a Japanese like disparity within a few decades. The next problem was a large portion of the children being born were to families who belonged to groups that have generational unemployed or poor employment history and multiple broken homes in the one family and had the lowest retention rates at school and worst police records. Projected forward Australia would need significant levels of immigration to fill the jobs required to look after our aging population as too many of our own off-spring cannot even feed themselves. Hence the Baby Bonus, although it was poorly done and may have added to the problem. However, my point is. Why do we need to pay people, from any socio-economic backgrounds to breed beyond average. If you want 6 kids, go for it. But working or not, why do we have to pay for your lifestyle choice? and more so this applies to those who choose not to contribute to society financially. As I said from what I've been told the UK has a welfare cap to prevent welfare homes having incomes exceeding that of the working middle class, which happens all to often in Australia.

IN the first place - immigrants themselves age - and subsequently end up on Centrelink too. It's been debunked many times that importing more people heads this off - it doesn't, it will make Centrelink dependency much worse in the long run, especially with family reunion programs.

In the second place, your beloved banks are directly responsible for working people not being able to afford to have children, a point that you consistently avoid because it doesn't fit in with your narrative.

In the third place - what do you think will happen to the people you doom to the poverty trap by importing wealthy, educated migrants. Do you think they might (maybe) resent them? Get angry and vote for someone on the fringes?

Singapore has no graffiti, chewing gum, almost no home intruders, rare use of ICE and respect by the young as an added bonus. I suppose you have to take good with the bad.


Finland!, you might want to retract that
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Finland
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_tax_in_Australia

70,000Euro income in Finland = $14k tax, in Australia its $24k + Medicare

Maybe I've missed something is the speed read?

Company tax in Finland = 20%, Aus = 30%

GST Finland = 24%, Food 14%, books 10%
Australia = 10% on most items except food etc

And 60-70% of Finland Pension funds are invested in tax havens avoiding further taxes in Finland.

Maybe I should have just copied and pasted the Finish tax system has its closely aligned with my previous comments and you seem to like it?


1) Excluding the problem migrants brought in by Julia and Co via boat via "don't give a F#$# policy of let them come if they want". I suspect migrants brought in via general entry visas that screen for having sufficient funds and employable qualifications are less dependent  welfare.

Point was if reducing welfare payments to the "breeders" means an overall lower birth rate for the country, fine counteract that with educated, suitably skilled and cashed up migrants.

Oh by the way the limit on the breeders I would share 50:50 to the father and mother. If the mother won't identify the father on the birth certificate then she wears the 100% which means what I mentioned previously would be reduced by half. This would help get mothers to name the father and hence reduce the need for welfare as social security can chase the father for his share of the costs of raising the kids.

2) Banks, haha, BS!!! I've repeatedly said here and off-line privately to friends the fiance limit should be 80% max. However that govt policy and if people want to get themselves up to their necks in debt, go for it. I wouldn't!

3) Australia has been importing mostly cashed up and educated migrants for decades via the 189, 190 and 489 visa program (I'm familiar with the requirements and money, youth and qualifications/skills, english and good health and mandatory) as well as those switching from 457. You don't hear about them because they are the people in neighbourhoods in middle of the road to nice suburbs, work usually in average to above average incomes, have nice cars, kids usually keep their noses clean and often do well at school and look like the rest of us, but with an ascent. Are generally happy to be here and cause few problems. I wouldn't change this! Oh you might not see too many of these in Adelaide though for the all the reasons you have mentioned previously and many many more I'm sure. My neighbour has told me is moving there for the minimum 2hr period then they are moving to Melbourne and they only spent a week there.

I suspect migrants brought in via general entry visas that screen for having sufficient funds and employable qualifications are less dependent  welfare.

Evidence?

Point was if reducing welfare payments to the "breeders" means an overall lower birth rate for the country, fine counteract that with educated, suitably skilled and cashed up migrants.

Yet again we see the Adolf in you bubbling to the surface. Don't worry about the peasants who already live here, they can eat cake.

2) Banks, haha, BS!!! I've repeatedly said here and off-line privately to friends the fiance limit should be 80% max. However that govt policy and if people want to get themselves up to their necks in debt, go for it. I wouldn't!

So let's remove the taxpayer guaranteed covered bonds for banks - they clearly don't need it because they're such good responsible corporate citizens. Any objections?

Oh you might not see too many of these in Adelaide though for the all the reasons you have mentioned previously and many many more I'm sure. My neighbour has told me is moving there for the minimum 2hr period then they are moving to Melbourne and they only spent a week there.

If they have school-age children they will not be able to get them into most inner public schools, they're all overflowing and many are refusing enrolments - http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-17/schools-overcrowded-residential-apartment-construction-boom/8359898. Your neighbours should also know that the Victorian government is considering making public schools fee-for-service (around $10,000 p/a) to anyone who is not a permanent resident.

I used to love living in Melbourne but it's incredibly overcrowded and expensive - trying to drive your car anywhere in the inner surburbs (even on weekends) is a nightmare. Anyone who wants to move there and experience it is welcome to it.

Hello RTT , Don and others ,

Well RTT best of British luck to you in getting missing fathers to pay their 50%. Not even the Tax Office can get these blokes to pay up , let alone the Family Court .

Don , I thought the Federal Govt. had removed the guarantee some time ago ? I am happy to be corrected on this.

Interesting how children of disfunctional aboriginal families are still having their children taken from them and placed with non aboriginal families , and which the NT Govt has today admitted is still happening , but non aboriginal children are left with their disfunctional family for far too long.

We also have the scourge of both prescription and illicit drug addiction which does have a disastrous effect on children , but what about their wider families, so they exist ,or do they ignore the problem as being too hard. How can we help these extended families to cope with this ?

I , and my friends were very lucky to be brought up by good , hard working parents but how difficult it must be to be a child in a disfunctional family and very little help from outside. No wonder this becomes inter generational . I would have thought that short term costs to fix this would have long term benefits to society and to the individual. Some children do rise above this, but unfortunately many do not.

While it may take a village to raise a child, our villages do not seem to be very good at helping the most marginalised .

For your thoughts,

Best wishes and regards, Radioman

Did anyone see the extraordinary tanking of Harvey Norman (HVN) shares yesterday - losing 8.2% of their price in a matter of hours for no apparent reason? (Share Cafe). Gerry himself has stepped in with his own money to bolster the share price so there should be a recovery today but with no official announcements from any of the major shareholders or the company itself (apart from some directors selling down their stakes) they have been issued with a "please explain" from the ASX as to why this has happened.

There's a theory that Harvey Norman stores will be significantly hurt by the entry of Amazon to the Australian market later this year. Personally I've never bought anything from Harvey Norman in my life - it's good to go there and get an idea of what their prices are but usually they're the most expensive for nearly anything you can buy at JB.

Don , I thought the Federal Govt. had removed the guarantee some time ago ? I am happy to be corrected on this.

Hello Radioman, I'm talking about the covered bond scheme devised by Rudd. Sorry, should have been more specific.

I would have thought that short term costs to fix this would have long term benefits to society and to the individual. Some children do rise above this, but unfortunately many do not. While it may take a village to raise a child, our villages do not seem to be very good at helping the most marginalised .

We are getting worse at this all the time, Radioman. You can't just lock everyone in a ghetto and say that we can always import a better class of citizen - we should be looking after the people who actually live here and ensuring they have everything they need to be able to climb out of welfare dependency, poverty, drugs/alcohol and violence.

There's a very strong relationship between unemployment/under-employment and domestic violence - that's why Malcolm Turnbull's egregious white ribbon campaign makes me nauseous. Nobody in charge cares enough to try and fix the fundamental causes of domestic violence; their caring doesn't go anywhere beyond trying to shame the perpetrators.

I suspect migrants brought in via general entry visas that screen for having sufficient funds and employable qualifications are less dependent  welfare.

Evidence?

Point was if reducing welfare payments to the "breeders" means an overall lower birth rate for the country, fine counteract that with educated, suitably skilled and cashed up migrants.

Yet again we see the Adolf in you bubbling to the surface. Don't worry about the peasants who already live here, they can eat cake.

2) Banks, haha, BS!!! I've repeatedly said here and off-line privately to friends the fiance limit should be 80% max. However that govt policy and if people want to get themselves up to their necks in debt, go for it. I wouldn't!

So let's remove the taxpayer guaranteed covered bonds for banks - they clearly don't need it because they're such good responsible corporate citizens. Any objections?

Oh you might not see too many of these in Adelaide though for the all the reasons you have mentioned previously and many many more I'm sure. My neighbour has told me is moving there for the minimum 2hr period then they are moving to Melbourne and they only spent a week there.

If they have school-age children they will not be able to get them into most inner public schools, they're all overflowing and many are refusing enrolments - http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-17/schools-overcrowded-residential-apartment-construction-boom/8359898. Your neighbours should also know that the Victorian government is considering making public schools fee-for-service (around $10,000 p/a) to anyone who is not a permanent resident.

I used to love living in Melbourne but it's incredibly overcrowded and expensive - trying to drive your car anywhere in the inner surburbs (even on weekends) is a nightmare. Anyone who wants to move there and experience it is welcome to it.

Check out ABS

I don't care where they come from, if you want to breed, then contribute!

Don't care

They are arriving on 190 Visa sponsored by SA. NSW was $500 just to get an interview with principle if on 457.

We are getting worse at this all the time, Radioman. You can't just lock everyone in a ghetto and say that we can always import a better class of citizen - we should be looking after the people who actually live here and ensuring they have everything they need to be able to climb out of welfare dependency, poverty, drugs/alcohol and violence.

There's a very strong relationship between unemployment/under-employment and domestic violence - that's why Malcolm Turnbull's egregious white ribbon campaign makes me nauseous. Nobody in charge cares enough to try and fix the fundamental causes of domestic violence; their caring doesn't go anywhere beyond trying to shame the perpetrators.

This has been a growing problem for decades and if we have learnt nothing we know throwing more money at them after bad hasn't achieved anything expect maybe made it worse. I agree with the link between continuous welfare and domestic violence.  

But like the UK model, I believe total welfare payments to a single house hold should be capped at minimum salary such that those on welfare cannot exceed those having a go. We've all seen and heard and in many cases know of a family on welfare getting $60k or more tax free. Meanwhile a wage earner across the street is trying to get by on far less and paying tax too boot. We are basically providing incentives not to work unless you have a job pushing average wage.

Back to Singapore, their welfare payments are far higher than Australia's, but the number of people claiming them are far less and they also have a culture that many wouldn't claim it over fear of shame.

If you want people to work for longer you need to actively employ those over 50 and those with slight disabilities who are able to (and want to ) contribute.

After a 30 year career in the IT industry I am now relegated to the scrap heap as now there are a couple of generations who grew up with computers in their schools and homes and a generation who have not known life without a mobile phone. Employers want the younger looking people to keep up with the fresh image.  That seems to be more important then skills and the ability to quickly assess the business impacts of technical issues.

The IT industry keeps importing people on 457 visas and when they get here as the income looks good the cost of living ensures they end up living 4 people (or more) to a 2 bedroom flat so they can make ends meet here and feed their wife and kids back home.  They are often qualified people working for $15 or less an hour when the minimum wage is close to $20.   I have 5 casual jobs at the moment and if I am lucky I get 1 day a month as insisting on the minimum wage makes me 'expensive' yet if I don't get that it doesn't even cover the cost of getting to or from the job. Some of them want me to get an ABN and they can give me more work at $16 an hour.  that barely covers the costs associated with Professional Liability insurance, the vehicle running costs, parking etc.  The work is often a 1 to 2 hour drive away and has taken 45 minutes to complete so they paid me for the 45 minutes.  I would have had more money in my pocket by not doing the job!

The pay rates are what I was earning in 1985 I don't know how many of you can afford 2017 prices on a 1985 pay rate.

If you want people to work for longer you need to actively employ those over 50 and those with slight disabilities who are able to (and want to ) contribute.

After a 30 year career in the IT industry I am now relegated to the scrap heap as now there are a couple of generations who grew up with computers in their schools and homes and a generation who have not known life without a mobile phone. Employers want the younger looking people to keep up with the fresh image.  That seems to be more important then skills and the ability to quickly assess the business impacts of technical issues.

The IT industry keeps importing people on 457 visas and when they get here as the income looks good the cost of living ensures they end up living 4 people (or more) to a 2 bedroom flat so they can make ends meet here and feed their wife and kids back home.  They are often qualified people working for $15 or less an hour when the minimum wage is close to $20.   I have 5 casual jobs at the moment and if I am lucky I get 1 day a month as insisting on the minimum wage makes me 'expensive' yet if I don't get that it doesn't even cover the cost of getting to or from the job. Some of them want me to get an ABN and they can give me more work at $16 an hour.  that barely covers the costs associated with Professional Liability insurance, the vehicle running costs, parking etc.  The work is often a 1 to 2 hour drive away and has taken 45 minutes to complete so they paid me for the 45 minutes.  I would have had more money in my pocket by not doing the job!

The pay rates are what I was earning in 1985 I don't know how many of you can afford 2017 prices on a 1985 pay rate.

Yep, I know where you are coming from. My industry is progressively being outsourced to China as has a "NEW" previous industry we were involved in for 5 years as it was getting off the ground and I suppose industries always change whether it technology that replaced them or cheaper labour on and off shore.

The solution is not simple but I suspect in 2025 I will be earning closer to half what I earn today and this is why we are looking at moving out of being an employee of someone else.

We've all seen and heard and in many cases know of a family on welfare getting $60k or more tax free.

Rubbish. There was a story doing the rounds some years ago that a single mum was getting ludicrous amounts of money like that and Media Watch thoroughly debunked it as fake news. If you want to trawl the internet and find a REAL example of that then be my guest.

Back to Singapore, their welfare payments are far higher than Australia's, but the number of people claiming them are far less and they also have a culture that many wouldn't claim it over fear of shame.

Who would want to live in that control-freak nut job single party police state anyway.

If you want people to work for longer you need to actively employ those over 50 and those with slight disabilities who are able to (and want to ) contribute...

Thanks for that interesting post - I can speak from experience in welfare that many people who spend years at university to obtain psychologist or social worker registration can often find themselves stuck in "not-for-profit" agencies or consultancies that only want to pay them $26-$29 p/h (or so) for things like child protection, housing, refugee resettlement, worker's compensation case management etc. When you consider the years and expense that you have in going to university it's an absolutely terrible outcome but somewhat better than the scenario you were outlining @ around $15 p/h subcontracting.

You can do much better than that as an experienced high reach or forklift driver (about $40 p/h depending on where you work) and experienced crane drivers etc can do even better than that. It's a shame that those jobs are also becoming harder to find though... what can you do.

And as you say, once you look of a "certain age" people just won't employ you at all despite all the guff we read from the government about the grey revolution.

Hello Hard Working Man and Don and others ,

There was an interesting programme on Radio National about PWC which apparently no longer recruits specifically by business based qualifications but now seeks Uni graduates in any speciality as they now recognise that a graduate in reality has an ability for disciplined investigation and by having people with widely varying knowledge working in teams analysis and recommendations are superior to the previous business only qualified people. The people interviewed were an archaeologist , a mechanical engineer and a philosopher .

This brings me to comments made by a now retired senior VR manager who commented that I may have only worked for the VR but over that time I had 17 different jobs. Previously, I have spoken to a number of VR engineers who over their career covered all aspects of their initial qualification , and as a result as problems arose there was usually someone they had previously worked with they could speak to re a current problem.

So while business groups keep on about people having lots of jobs , as in employers , over a working lifetime , and therefore give business a part time flexible labour market , our now disbanded Government Departments and statutory organisations did that quite effectively with their in house employees.

Except for TV dramas how often do we see older or disabled workers at a work place ? So how serious are Government and Business about actually employing such people ?

Best wishes and regards, Radioman

Growing up and gaining experience in a job is a big no no these days as one will eventually know more than their bean counting boss off the street with an MBA (Master of Bugger All).
That is why there is no longer any effective corporate memory or honesty in the industry today.
The same mistakes keep being made time and time again and the most obvious deficiencies ignored, unknown or unseen.
Everything is driven by money and/or politics.
Professionals are not required only bean counters, bimbos (male and female) and spin doctors.

We've all seen and heard and in many cases know of a family on welfare getting $60k or more tax free.

Rubbish. There was a story doing the rounds some years ago that a single mum was getting ludicrous amounts of money like that and Media Watch thoroughly debunked it as fake news. If you want to trawl the internet and find a REAL example of that then be my guest.

Back to Singapore, their welfare payments are far higher than Australia's, but the number of people claiming them are far less and they also have a culture that many wouldn't claim it over fear of shame.

Who would want to live in that control-freak nut job single party police state anyway.

G'day All,

Singapore does not allow it's citizens to obtain travel visas unless you are traveling on business for the benefit of the country. You will rarely see Singaporean tourists traveling the world on holidays. In addition you are required to place 18% of your gross wages/salary etc. in a government pension scheme for you retirement, no exceptions. Further, you cannot buy a car unless you have a parking location to keep it, and these cost far in excess of the car price. So, the citizens are in fact captive of the country. Much like in the feudal times of old.

As Don says, a one party/police country-state. (Mind you, a benevolent  dictator may be the answer).

Regards,

We've all seen and heard and in many cases know of a family on welfare getting $60k or more tax free.

Rubbish. There was a story doing the rounds some years ago that a single mum was getting ludicrous amounts of money like that and Media Watch thoroughly debunked it as fake news. If you want to trawl the internet and find a REAL example of that then be my guest.

Back to Singapore, their welfare payments are far higher than Australia's, but the number of people claiming them are far less and they also have a culture that many wouldn't claim it over fear of shame.

Who would want to live in that control-freak nut job single party police state anyway.

G'day All,

Singapore does not allow it's citizens to obtain travel visas unless you are traveling on business for the benefit of the country. You will rarely see Singaporean tourists traveling the world on holidays. In addition you are required to place 18% of your gross wages/salary etc. in a government pension scheme for you retirement, no exceptions. Further, you cannot buy a car unless you have a parking location to keep it, and these cost far in excess of the car price. So, the citizens are in fact captive of the country. Much like in the feudal times of old.

As Don says, a one party/police country-state. (Mind you, a benevolent  dictator may be the answer).

Regards,

Mmm,
Would you like to list your source because I'm calling BS.

I have inlaws who are citizens of Singapore (born and bred) and they travel freely and never heard them mention anything about this. I also just looked up the Ministry of Foreign Affairs website for Singapore and in only makes reference to registering before travel if more than 3mths, less than 3mths feel free to go.

And their passport is rated number 2 in the world for visa free travel, probably because they don't cause problems as a nation and a individual.

The car situation, yes every 5 years my inlaws need to bid for a car ownership licence and the building they live in comes with 2 car spots as part of the apartment. The owenrship licence was last I spoke with him about this 5 years back was $S50k each. Bought at an auction. Why did they introduce this? Same reason they introduced peak hour pricing toll roads, to prevent traffic gridlock in a country 40km across with 5 million (wealthy) people and to fund this world class Metro system. Ironically many a in RP also propose similar proposals to fund improved PT in Oz to reduce congestion and pollution. Compared to other countries who basically don't give a toss about their traffic, live there for a week and you will see that it works. Not a police state, rather just more controlled but as population densities go up, society will always become more controlled to retain functionality and prevent chaos.

And ironically back to welfare, this so called controlled police state pays welfare that on average exceeds even the most Leftist expectation in Australia. Why because people prefer to work over receiving welfare and don't use excuses to turn down a job.  Hence the cleaners in toilets are often over 70. Likewise in Japan, older people become security guards and other similar jobs. Its called civic pride.

Again calling BS on yours and Don's comments.

Again calling BS on yours and Don's comments.

I used to work with a lady who grew up in Singapore and she told me that it was a horrible experience, that there was no freedom to do seemingly trivial things like dress or wear your hair the way you wanted to - the conformity is extreme and pervasive. She said you can get into very serious trouble if you said anything negative on the internet about the government or about the (lack of) any democratic processes - early morning visits from the police kind of thing. It was kind of an eye-opener knowing her because up until then I'd never considered the fact that we have lots of freedoms in this country that we completely take for granted.

You should definitely go and live there if you can get in using your wife's citizenship - it totally sounds like the kind of place you'd be at home.

Meanwhile Perth continues to lead the way with the Aussie economic slump despite the recent bounce in commodities prices (WA Today):

The percentage of home loans in arrears has surged 40 per cent in WA, from 1.5 per cent of mortgages in December 2015 to 2.1 per cent a year later, a report by global ratings agency Standard & Poor's shows... "Higher unemployment, lower wage growth, and falling property prices are creating mortgage stress in WA, as evidenced by the state's higher arrears," Standard & Poor's said.

Again calling BS on yours and Don's comments.

I used to work with a lady who grew up in Singapore and she told me that it was a horrible experience, that there was no freedom to do seemingly trivial things like dress or wear your hair the way you wanted to - the conformity is extreme and pervasive. She said you can get into very serious trouble if you said anything negative on the internet about the government or about the (lack of) any democratic processes - early morning visits from the police kind of thing. It was kind of an eye-opener knowing her because up until then I'd never considered the fact that we have lots of freedoms in this country that we completely take for granted.

You should definitely go and live there if you can get in using your wife's citizenship - it totally sounds like the kind of place you'd be at home.

Well, I have been there, many times and have family there.

Dress standards - Joke, I mean seriously you been there? Girls with skirts at fanny level. What you won't see and this is typical for all Asian and sub-cont countries is cleavage or certainly in your face cleavage. Asian girls don't generally have big boobs and hence they don't show them off like western society.

Hair standards - Joke! Which colour hair we talking because the Chinese dye it any colour.

Conformity - to what? Everyone dresses and wears what they like. In years gone past this may have been the case as the Asians are very regimented. For example I was in Japan last week in company offices, women, skirt/dress 99% of the time. Even heavy industry unless in safety clothing. Guys, a tie and often a 3 piece suit. Yes as a westerner your dress standards often make you stand out. I could imagine a hard nose western woman not used to wearing a skirt/dress at work going to Japan and quickly finding she is out of place. Most women would just follow suit. Likewise the guys. Put a tie on if you want respect in the office in Japan. Singapore I felt was more relaxed as their climate is less friendly to formal attire. Certainly the dress/skirt thing seems to be less obvious.

Office dress standards in Dubai are also very formal, despite it being 45C outside. And short skirts in govt offices are a no-no and will see you asked to leave.

Yes, the Sing govt doesn't like opposition and they cause problems for people who do. Note, neither does Dubai. But as most of us are not about to invoke a revolution, things are not so bad as they make out and few seem bothered. But for example you will never see me type anything against the royal family as there are laws about doing that. My adopted home is my adopted laws.

Overall Singapore, I've never felt repressed and most people shouldn't unless you like spitting and painting public buildings.

Not sure how you expect me to get citizenship of Singapore? I also have no interest in city living. Dubai at least we can go camping in the desert.

Still waiting for your retraction on Finland!

Meanwhile Perth continues to lead the way with the Aussie economic slump despite the recent bounce in commodities prices (WA Today):

The percentage of home loans in arrears has surged 40 per cent in WA, from 1.5 per cent of mortgages in December 2015 to 2.1 per cent a year later, a report by global ratings agency Standard & Poor's shows... "Higher unemployment, lower wage growth, and falling property prices are creating mortgage stress in WA, as evidenced by the state's higher arrears," Standard & Poor's said.

40% increase of 1.5%, what a surge.

Ahh media dramatisation.

How many actual mortgages in Perth. 200,000? That's about 1000 mortgages.

Still waiting for your retraction on Finland!

Look at how Finland taxes the ultra-rich.

Still waiting for you to make the link between the property bubble and completely irresponsible bank lending in Australia.

Overall Singapore, I've never felt repressed and most people shouldn't unless you like spitting and painting public buildings.

So you've visited several times and never felt oppressed, great to hear. It's exactly the same thing as living there isn't it.

40% increase of 1.5%, what a surge. Ahh media dramatisation. How many actual mortgages in Perth. 200,000? That's about 1000 mortgages.

Your maths are dreadful. Do your theoretical sums again and tell me the actual answer.

My adopted home is my adopted laws.

Alright, I think you need to consider that this naive idea is at the very nub of your problem.

You seem to think that even though you are in an undemocratic country that you will be able to avoid any issues if you manage to stay out of trouble and respect the local laws of that place; that the only people who actually get sent to jail/persecuted in places such as Singapore or Dubai are the ones who intentionally set out to make trouble. The problem is that it doesn't occur to you that you don't have to set out to rock the boat in order to land yourself on the foul side of authority.

You could find yourself the wrong side of a corrupt cop, get set up by an enemy, in a clash with someone influential or just in the wrong place at the wrong time. Or your family could do something wrong that's beyond your control - like the family of the 16 year old kiddie in Singapore who got sent to jail for a month not long ago for posting a hand-drawn picture of Lee Kwan Yew have sex with Margaret Thatcher. His case went all the way to the Singapore High Court and yes, they upheld the sentence. Yes, the Singapore government are really that paranoid and pathetic - and they send children to jail for things like that and they do it all the time, not just to make examples of random miscreants spray painting buildings or littering.

So much as you might think that those kinds of countries are hunky dory as long as you keep your nose clean, don't always bet on being on the right side of these people despite your best intentions... and if you do end up in trouble their idea of justice is a long, long way from our own.