Anger after V/Line slashes capacity of peak hour services

 
Topic moved from News by bevans on 21 Mar 2017 21:04
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Have V/Line taken the capacity and deployed it elsewhere on the network?

Anger after V/Line slashes capacity of peak hour services

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  SamTheMan79 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Geelong
Response from V/line on social media suggested that there were an unusual amount of V/Locity sets out if action for unscheduled maintenance as well as two of the N sets usually on Geelong AM peaks.

Both Ballarat & Geelong lines affected.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Is the wheel wear issue re-emerging?
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Is the wheel wear issue re-emerging?
YM-Mundrabilla

Now that is an interesting thought.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Response from V/line on social media suggested that there were an unusual amount of V/Locity sets out if action for unscheduled maintenance as well as two of the N sets usually on Geelong AM peaks.

Both Ballarat & Geelong lines affected.
SamTheMan79

Why aren't V/Line ordering some spare sets for this very reason which is what a competent operator would no doubt have.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
With all the additional Vlocities delivered in the last couple of years what additional maintenance capacity has been provided?
  SamTheMan79 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Geelong
In my opinion the issues at the moment are once again caused by the current fleet being pushed to it limits after the recent timetable change on 29th Jan.

There are more services on interurban and intercity routes as well as a new station at Caroline Springs but they don't have the rollingstock to have sets out for routine maintenance as well as having enough available to run the additional services.

I stand to be corrected by anyone in the know.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
That image in the link was taken of the 17:51 Wendouree at SCS which was a 3 car VLocity on 14 March and we picked up even more pax at Footscray Exclamation

I stood all the way to Ballan that night. I can say this with 100% certainty as I'm the bald guy in the white T Shirt on the right of the image... Shocked

Unfortunately calls to V/Line ahead of time to inquire of train lengths to avoid standing all the way home can not be accurately answered. Moreover, there were so many pax on the train that evening that some pax stood all the way to Ballarat Exclamation

Mike.
  x31 Chief Commissioner

Location: gallifrey
V/Line is in crisis.
  SamTheMan79 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Geelong
V/Line is in crisis.
x31
And with more and more people moving into all those new homes being built in the outer Western suburbs as well as those moving to Geelong and surrounds and with Bombardier only being able to churn out a single 3 car V/Locity every month these issues I think, are only the tip of the iceberg.
  Carnot Minister for Railways

V/Line is in crisis.
And with more and more people moving into all those new homes being built in the outer Western suburbs as well as those moving to Geelong and surrounds and with Bombardier only being able to churn out a single 3 car V/Locity every month these issues I think, are only the tip of the iceberg.
SamTheMan79
To be honest, V/line wouldn't be unaware of these issues.

What it does demonstrate is an abject failure of Governments to adequately plan and resource suburban and regional growth in conjunction with the demand for public transport.
  SamTheMan79 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Geelong
Agree. Government failure. Not necessarily that of V/Line.
  mm42 Chief Train Controller

They could manage it a lot better by being upfront. Put it on the website as a scheduled disruption and explain that they are x trains down due to unscheduled maintenance, and nominate which services will have reduced capacity. They have responded reactively on social media. It would also help to promote the coach alternatives and have them express to and from Southern Cross. As it is, passengers don't know about the capacity reductions until waiting at the station.  Those who take the supplementary coaches sometimes have surprise diversions via Footscray, even when a direct service is promised.  The social media responses would tend to put off prospective travellers due to the unreliabability, and it takes a long time to win back trust after this.
  woodford Chief Commissioner

They could manage it a lot better by being upfront. Put it on the website as a scheduled disruption and explain that they are x trains down due to unscheduled maintenance, and nominate which services will have reduced capacity. They have responded reactively on social media. It would also help to promote the coach alternatives and have them express to and from Southern Cross. As it is, passengers don't know about the capacity reductions until waiting at the station.  Those who take the supplementary coaches sometimes have surprise diversions via Footscray, even when a direct service is promised.  The social media responses would tend to put off prospective travellers due to the unreliabability, and it takes a long time to win back trust after this.
mm42
Opinion piece, you have been warned.......................

For some reason this is NEVER done, Neither VLine or the Metro mob say much about technical matters be it maintence or construction. This has two problems, few know what is going on so all sorts of rumors get spread as solid fact. The second is it allows any opponents to spread missinformation and straight out lies.

Its been like this for years, the RFR project suffered particuarly badly from thus aspect, leaving many to think it was a waste of funds, instead of one of the few decent things to be done to country rail in MANY years.

Why this is the sort of thing happens I do not know, its likely though upper management are not technicly minded and simply do NOT know what questions to ask there staff.

Note: I have long had  a poor image of technical management due to factors like this, some management have told me I am being unfair, my reply has always been "then why do things like this KEEP on happenning".

woodford
  woodford Chief Commissioner

Post Script to the above reply.............

A major problem on technical information distribution is that few jouranlists understand ANY technical matters and only look for any kind of missmanagement , this leads most public relations staff ONLY looking at that side as its what "the press" are looking for.

woodford.
  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
Well there you go, I always pictured our Mikey as an aging hippy with a pony tail.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Post Script to the above reply.............

A major problem on technical information distribution is that few jouranlists understand ANY technical matters and only look for any kind of missmanagement , this leads most public relations staff ONLY looking at that side as its what "the press" are looking for.

woodford.
woodford
The public relations staff is no better than the media.
No one who knew anything could be a Metro/Vline/PTV Mouth and say the things that they say and either keep a straight face or lie straight in bed at night.
  Radioman Chief Train Controller

Hello All,

While I am unaware of how V/Line Cars Office ( it now has a very long and irrelevant name due to a new manager who I am told has ZERO railway experience or knowledge ) operates I can outline how Metro Fleet Control works.

When a train is shunted out , ( in the evening in this example ) the driver will advise Fleet of its actual ( as opposed to scheduled ) siding it is in. Fleet then hands the train over to Maintenace who should know they need to have that train ready for service by 0400 the next day. If for some reason the train will not be ready by 0400 Maintenance will advise Fleet and advise of a probable availability time . This allows Fleet to allocate the maintenance delayed train to either be put on the last AM Dock, or a substitute being provided from another location , or a transposals at Flinders St to cover the required runs. So by 0400 Fleet will pretty much know what the AM service availability is. The PM peak availability is known by 1400 .

Additional to this , particular sets will be required for A , B , C , or D Exams and Maintenance will usually give a time frame for this activity to be completed. Depending on that time frame , Fleet will make whatever transposals are required to achieve the AM or PM service. Some trains may be out of service for want of particular components, as orders for components are based on the previous months demand , this usually works out ok, but shortfalls due to a run on particular parts is not unknown , and this may be exacerbated if components are still on the ocean. I have been told that re order for some items can be up to six months in advance , which potentially could lead to a number of trains being out of service for extended periods. I assume that this is also the case for the rest of Australia.

Best wishes and regards, Radioman
  Radioman Chief Train Controller

Hello All,

Dear Wobert , it could be that Mikey is a Pony tailed hippy who travels incognito to and from work.

Dear Woodford , bearing in mind my last post , I am not sure that telling the public certain trains are cancelled due to a shortage of parts will go down well, in addition to which the train will still be cancelled.
I agree that some recurring faults should be proactively dealt with , but those decisions occur at senior management level , not Depot Maintenance level .

In my view , management's  decision to effectively delete driver reporting of on going faults , justified on the alleged basis that drivers were sabotaging the reporting system , has created a worsening maintenance problem . For instance I understand that trains are now running around with defective motors for up to 12 months. If correct, all this does is put extra stress on the other traction motors , and also probably exacerbates other defects . ( I am neither an engineer , nor a fitter , so I am happy to be corrected on this assertion ) . The other result of stymying driver reporting of faults  is it actually discourages at least some drivers from reporting any faults.

The FMS / Fault Management System is broadly speaking a spreadsheet style programme which allows both Maintenance and Fleet to see the fault and maintenance history of any vehicle , so persistent faults can be tracked and special attention given to it.

One reason for some vehicles having persistent faults is temperature variation . I am aware of past instances where persistent faults occurred in running, but by the time the fitters attended the vehicle in question  ( 0120 in the morning ) the fault could not be traced as the train was by then cold .

Best wishes and regards, Radioman
  Radioman Chief Train Controller

Dear YM-Mundrbilla and others,

Re PR officers. There are , very occasionally , articles detailing some of the technical difficulties effecting railway operations , but for most people they are boring , and for the members of this and like forums , usually have glaring errors or misunderstand entirely the previous published paragraph.

In reality some problems are not an easy fix . For example , if your crucial part is on a container ship what can you do ? You could say, we'll have a larger stock of those parts . Problem is those parts may only fail once in a decade , so how do you justify holding a stock of parts which may never be used , or some of which outlast the trains they are intended for . I often wonder how many spare Blue Harris parts ended up as scrap as a result of these trains being an early withdrawal due to asbestos . ( The VR put out three tenders for asbestos removal and received no submissions , hence they ended up in a deep sand pit at Clayton . )

I am unaware of the Maintenace Tender Requirements as related to either V/Line or Metro , but presumably each contractor will do the minimum amount of work to ensure that train availability is met . At some point this approach will result in a shortfall in availability . That is not a short term fix , the only short term fix available is either shorter trains or cancelled trains , neither of which is a good choice in peak period travel times.

Bearing that in mind what sort of PR spin could possibly make that look good ? ( if someone knows, do not be bashful , share it around ! )

Best wishes and regards, Radioman
  MetroFemme Assistant Commissioner

Is the real problem the government not buying enough rolling stock to cover maintenance and unplanned outages or is the management of the fleet by V/line the issue?
  SamTheMan79 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Geelong
3 Car V/Locity services again on the Geelong line this morning. This is not good for V/Line or the Government.
  x31 Chief Commissioner

Location: gallifrey
Is the real problem the government not buying enough rolling stock to cover maintenance and unplanned outages or is the management of the fleet by V/line the issue?
MetroFemme

The Government is only really interested in transactions which provide a way to lull the voting public into a false believe they are actually solving all of our problems and are fixing and expanding the rail network,  They are doing more than the last government,  They do this with SPIN and announcing decisions which look good on the surface.

The reality in Victoria is something vastly different.

Decisions on smaller projects around rail are made (Metro and level crossing removal exceptions) and the benefits and spin told but in reality there are patch jobs. The public is slowly working this out now and the future is grim for governments who revolve around spin selling.

I am starting to lean with some on here that Daniel Andrews is cooked.  Done.

We will all look back again and ask how many of the problems with V/Line have actually been fixed under his tenure?  Not many.
  Carnot Minister for Railways

Is the real problem the government not buying enough rolling stock to cover maintenance and unplanned outages or is the management of the fleet by V/line the issue?

The Government is only really interested in transactions which provide a way to lull the voting public into a false believe they are actually solving all of our problems and are fixing and expanding the rail network,  They are doing more than the last government,  They do this with SPIN and announcing decisions which look good on the surface.

The reality in Victoria is something vastly different.

Decisions on smaller projects around rail are made (Metro and level crossing removal exceptions) and the benefits and spin told but in reality there are patch jobs. The public is slowly working this out now and the future is grim for governments who revolve around spin selling.

I am starting to lean with some on here that Daniel Andrews is cooked.  Done.

We will all look back again and ask how many of the problems with V/Line have actually been fixed under his tenure?  Not many.
x31
As per the previous State Govt, expect a whole raft of promises just before the election...
  Bogong Chief Commissioner

Location: Essendon Aerodrome circa 1980
Really, we have the problem of how we can objectively and realistically assess the two main political parties. Not just on their promises, but also on their likely implementation.

While there will always be a few fanatically "brand loyal" people who would still vote for their preferred political party even if it crashed the economy and started a world war,  the majority of us can see good intent on both sides and thus be flexible and change our vote according to which party seems to offer the best combination of good economic management and realistic promises on our pet issues (which would include transport for people on this forum).

It would be interesting to run a thread in the state election next year comparing and rating the transport policies of the two main parties, perhaps with some sort of poll or rating system. But it might be sabotaged, as the aforementioned people with unquestioning brand loyalty would rate the policies of their team as 5 out of 5 and rate the other mobs policies as 1 out of 5. But if we could overcome the effect of the rusted on party loyalists, it would be an interesting thread and very useful in helping us to work out which way to vote.

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