Curiosity, What do Signal Aspects mean to you in victoria?

 
  N464 Chief Commissioner

Location: Port Hedland, WA
Although I no what all the aspects mean, I am curious as to what people think certain signal aspects mean. The poll asks what signal aspect a Green over Yellow is, Select your choice and we shall see how many people get it right.

Other aspects are (For 3 pos and 2 pos):
Red over Red
Red over Yellow
Red over Green
Green over Red
Yellow over Red
Yellow over Yellow
Purple

What do you think each of those mean?

NOTE: If you know the answer to the poll question, select your option from the possible answers. DO NOT say it in a message.

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  phpunit6

What about next signal is clear, and turnout is set for diverge?

Or maybe you need to re-word the question to say it is Victoria.
  N464 Chief Commissioner

Location: Port Hedland, WA
What about next signal is clear, and turnout is set for diverge?

Or maybe you need to re-word the question to say it is Victoria.
"vicsig"


Thanks for pointing that out, I overlooked that point.

NOTE: In victoria, a signal aspect cannot say that the next signal is clear, it can however say that the next signal is at proceed. I am aware of the other types of signals that tell which way the set of points it is protecting are facing, but lets keep things simple shall we.
  Railfan9949 Chief Commissioner

Location: Somewhere between Gembrook to Healesville to Seymour to Maldon
Some of the answers in poll are half right so are they counted as correct?
  N464 Chief Commissioner

Location: Port Hedland, WA
I made a boo boo, Some of the answers are inaccurate. But still pick which one you think is right. Maybe pick the one you think is fully right, and not half right?
  former employee Chief Train Controller

The signal is a repeating signal for a distant in a two position area, I believe there is one at Broadford (post 2).  Ballan used to have one (the old post 9), and Horsham had them until CTC went through when they were converted to automatics.
When the signal shows yellow above yellow the next signal is at caution
Wnen it shows green above yellow the distant will be at proceed.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Ray
  N464 Chief Commissioner

Location: Port Hedland, WA
The signal is a repeating signal for a distant in a two position area, I believe there is one at Broadford (post 2).  Ballan used to have one (the old post 9), and Horsham had them until CTC went through when they were converted to automatics.
When the signal shows yellow above yellow the next signal is at caution
Wnen it shows green above yellow the distant will be at proceed.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Ray
"former employee"


Your Wrong, But i wont correct you because i specifically stated that the answer to the poll question should not be discussed.
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
The signal is a repeating signal for a distant in a two position area, I believe there is one at Broadford (post 2).  Ballan used to have one (the old post 9), and Horsham had them until CTC went through when they were converted to automatics.
When the signal shows yellow above yellow the next signal is at caution
Wnen it shows green above yellow the distant will be at proceed.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Ray
"former employee"


Your Wrong, But i wont correct you because i specifically stated that the answer to the poll question should not be discussed.
"N464"


Question: Do the lights of a "Green over Yellow" signal have the same brightness and the same size? Here in NSW in so-called "single light" territory they are of different brightness and size.
  N464 Chief Commissioner

Location: Port Hedland, WA
The signal is a repeating signal for a distant in a two position area, I believe there is one at Broadford (post 2).  Ballan used to have one (the old post 9), and Horsham had them until CTC went through when they were converted to automatics.
When the signal shows yellow above yellow the next signal is at caution
Wnen it shows green above yellow the distant will be at proceed.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Ray
"former employee"


Your Wrong, But i wont correct you because i specifically stated that the answer to the poll question should not be discussed.
"N464"


Question: Do the lights of a "Green over Yellow" signal have the same brightness and the same size? Here in NSW in so-called "single light" territory they are of different brightness and size.
"awsgc24"


No, they are the same size and brightness (Unless LEDs are used) as the normal aspects.
  gallop3 Deputy Commissioner

Ray is right .and Chris is right too.
The repeater is the only signal where you will get this aspect.
The only possible difference would be very hypothetical as it would involve
a distant signal with a co-acting arm with a broken wire on the bottom arm.Possible but an irregularity.
A repeater signal can indicate lot's of things, usually a distant signal or to indicate going from 3position to 2 position area.
Also used on western line crossing loops to repeat either signal or point detection.
I suggest again that you grab a vr blue book (r&r) and a general appendix and do a bit of reading.
Of course in nsw the green over yellow is used on home signals.
  N464 Chief Commissioner

Location: Port Hedland, WA
Ray is right .and Chris is right too.
The repeater is the only signal where you will get this aspect.
The only possible difference would be very hypothetical as it would involve
a distant signal with a co-acting arm with a broken wire on the bottom arm.Possible but an irregularity.
A repeater signal can indicate lot's of things, usually a distant signal or to indicate going from 3position to 2 position area.
Also used on western line crossing loops to repeat either signal or point detection.
I suggest again that you grab a vr blue book (r&r) and a general appendix and do a bit of reading.
Of course in nsw the green over yellow is used on home signals.
"gallop3"


Ray is not quite right, If this signal is at yellow over yellow then the next signal is at STOP. Green over yellow indicates that the next signal is showing a PROCEED aspect. This signal does not tell the driver what speed he can do, and if the aspect is yellow over yellow it does not tell the driver that the track section ahead is clear. I am not sure if green over yellow tells the driver that the track section ahead is clear, I have not seen if the signal drops back to yellow over yellow when a train passes it.
  gallop3 Deputy Commissioner

You would have failed your fireman class2 exam let alone a full drver's exam with your last one.
A yellow over yellow (repeating signal) repeats the indication of a 2 position distant signal in the caution position which is a proceed aspect
to bring your train under complete control being prepared to stop at the next fixed signal after the distant signal.
Just because signals have become lights instead of arms the regs haven't changed.
cheers
  former employee Chief Train Controller

[quote="N464"][quote="gallop3"]Ray is right .and Chris is right too.
The repeater is the only signal where you will get this aspect.
The only possible difference would be very hypothetical as it would involve
a distant signal with a co-acting arm with a broken wire on the bottom arm.Possible but an irregularity.
A repeater signal can indicate lot's of things, usually a distant signal or to indicate going from 3position to 2 position area.
Also used on western line crossing loops to repeat either signal or point detection.
I suggest again that you grab a vr blue book (r&r) and a general appendix and do a bit of reading.
Of course in nsw the green over yellow is used on home signals.[/quote]

Ray is not quite right, If this signal is at yellow over yellow then the next signal is at STOP. Green over yellow indicates that the next signal is showing a PROCEED aspect. This signal does not tell the driver what speed he can do, and if the aspect is yellow over yellow it does not tell the driver that the track section ahead is clear. I am not sure if green over yellow tells the driver that the track section ahead is clear, I have not seen if the signal drops back to yellow over yellow when a train passes it.[/quote]

In two position signalling areas the next signal can't be at STOP!
In three position area the next signal can be at stop like those on the Western line to Ballarat.
On the CTC they were converted to automatics.  Repeaters are light signals and are indicated on diagrams with fishtails arms in circles
see http://www.victorianrailways.net/signaling/completedia/bford1961.gif
post two at broadford shows it.
When Horsham had it's panel put in the late 70's and converted to three position signalling there was a repeater at either end.  The old up repeater which is now an automatic can be seen from the Western highway at Dahlen.

Ray
(Former Signaller)
  Coils Junior Train Controller

Location: Victoria
In Victoria there are no Repeater signals. They are correctly called Repeating Signals.

It was the original intention that Repeating Signals were to be the first fixed signal encounted by a train coming from what is these days is known as "dark territory" and entering a three position signalling area. Dark territory can be defined as a section of line the right of occupancy of which is not determined by the aspect of the previous fixed signal. This includes block telegraph, electric staff, train staff and train order sections.

Some current examples of repeating signals as the first fixed signal are Castlemaine both directions on the main line, Bendigo from all directions, Seymour from all directions, Ballarat from all directions other than Bungaree, Ararat from Beaufort, Somerton for BG main line trains, Water Gardens from Diggers Rest. There are some other places where a train enters a three position section without there being a repeating signal. Generally there will be a location board in this case.

Repeating signals are provided at Inglewood, Eaglehawk and Toolamba as glorified "point indicators". Their use in these places is an application at variance with the true principle.

It is a few years since there has been a repeating signal at Broadford. This signal was abolished and redressed to become a light distant when the mechanical distant signal was removed.
  phpunit6

Other repeating signals:

Gheringhap on the up (both BG and SG lines)

Maroona on the down (both lines).  Does it still have location boards between the repeating signal and the home?

Is there still one off the Bandinna line at Wodonga for sg into the Coal Sidings?


Is there still one at Talbot on the up for the point banner?

Other glorified point indicators between Gheringhap and Maroona, and uncommissioned ones at Benalla (BG).
  ninthnotch Dr Beeching

Location: Not here. Try another castle.
Were there in the past repeating signals in Victoria with fishtail arms mounted on three-position upper quadrant motors, with the arm at 45deg as the Yellow/Yellow indication and 90deg for Green/Yellow? I've seen drawings of them in an old Rules and Regulations book (along with two-position automatic semaphores - with pointed arms, which I presume existed on the Newmarket-Flemington Racecourse line) - and never any indication of where they were and how long they were in service?
  Troll Dept. Chief Train Controller

Location: Uzbekikitty!
Were there in the past repeating signals in Victoria with fishtail arms mounted on three-position upper quadrant motors, with the arm at 45deg as the Yellow/Yellow indication and 90deg for Green/Yellow? I've seen drawings of them in an old Rules and Regulations book (along with two-position automatic semaphores - with pointed arms, which I presume existed on the Newmarket-Flemington Racecourse line) - and never any indication of where they were and how long they were in service?
"ninthnotch"

Maldon Jct had upper quad repeating signals, during the period it was remote controlled from Castlemaine A Box.  As for the 2 pos automatic semaphores, I'm not aware of such a beast ever existing (except for that critter at the Diamond Valley Railway).
  Gwiwer Rt Hon Gentleman and Ghost of Oliver Bulleid

Location: Loitering in darkest Somewhere
With all the apparent confusion as to the correct answer is it any wonder we get the occasional incident caused by misreading signals?  Fortunately thanks to the professionalism of our rail staff these incidents are rare.  Think I'll go back to the UK where it's nice and simple  Wink - and there's no such thing as Green and Red showing at the same time - I spent ages trying to work out whether that meant "Stop", "Proceed" or "This signal is defective and shows random aspects"
  ninthnotch Dr Beeching

Location: Not here. Try another castle.
Were there in the past repeating signals in Victoria with fishtail arms mounted on three-position upper quadrant motors, with the arm at 45deg as the Yellow/Yellow indication and 90deg for Green/Yellow? I've seen drawings of them in an old Rules and Regulations book (along with two-position automatic semaphores - with pointed arms, which I presume existed on the Newmarket-Flemington Racecourse line) - and never any indication of where they were and how long they were in service?
"ninthnotch"

Maldon Jct had upper quad repeating signals, during the period it was remote controlled from Castlemaine A Box.  As for the 2 pos automatic semaphores, I'm not aware of such a beast ever existing (except for that critter at the Diamond Valley Railway).
"Troll Dept."
Are there any photos of these around?
  duttonbay Minister for Railways

In Victoria there are no Repeater signals. They are correctly called Repeating Signals.

It was the original intention that Repeating Signals were to be the first fixed signal encounted by a train coming from what is these days is known as "dark territory" and entering a three position signalling area. Dark territory can be defined as a section of line the right of occupancy of which is not determined by the aspect of the previous fixed signal. This includes block telegraph, electric staff, train staff and train order sections.
"Coils"


They were also used when entering three-position territory from double line block.  There was a (light) repeating signal on the down line approaching Dandenong before 3-pos signals were introduced between Oakleigh and Dandenong, in the 70s from memory.

John
  witsend Chief Commissioner

Location: Front RH Seat of a School Bus
I think in SA we call them Permissive Signals.

Repeater Signal are marked with a big R on them and are usually found on the Trans Australia Railway 5km before a crossing loop.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

Many moons ago ARHS Victorian Division published a booklet titledCLEAR NORMAL SPEED by John Sinnatt which may still be available at Railfan Shop or through ARHS, certainly accessible at their Windsor Station Archives/Library. It includes photos of the old three position electric signals at Maldon Junction.
  Sideshowbobcat Beginner

According to Asciano's learner guide, a Green over Yellow aspect would be seen on a Repeating signal for Points banners and Switch locked points. It is a two position fixed signal.
The aspect indicates "proceed".
They *can* be fitted to the rear of distant signals and repeat the indication of the distant signal. At "warning" the speed of the train must be slowed to a precautionary speed.
Are there exceptions to this?
  Radioman Chief Train Controller

Hello All ,

As a retired VR signalman , the Repeating signal , Green over Yellow was on the boundary from a two position to a three position signalled area , hence its placement at Dandenong ( not Oakleigh as originally posted ) .

In Victoria two position were usually lower quadrant semaphore signals , but two position light signals were also used particularly in new installations from the late 1970s. The Racecourse Line had two position automatic semaphores as well as two position light signals. The signal post had a white A on a black background triangle.

Three position  semaphore signals were upper quadrant or colour light signals. Three position signals were identified by having a marker light ( except where Medium Speed Indications were provided ) below the operating signal arm or light. Home ( or Absolute for ANR ) signals had a minimum of two vertical lights , whilst Automatic Signals ( Permissive for ANR ) had the marker light staggered to the right. For sighting purposes some Automatic Signals had the marker light staggered to the left from around 1976.

When looking at a 3 position signal the top light is Normal Speed , the middle light is Medium Speed , in which case the top light would be red , and the Botton light , where provided , was the Low Speed , in which case both the top and middle light would be a red.

Best wishes and regards, Radioman
  Radioman Chief Train Controller

Hello All,

Re VR Three Position signalling . Normal Speed is defined as Line Speed for the Section, Medium Speed is a speed not exceeding 45 kph , except where  a 65 kph lilluminated light is also displayed. Low Speed is a speed not exceeding 15 kph .

Clear Normal Speed is Green over Red , next fixed signal is at proceed.
Normal Speed Warning is Yellow over Red , next fixed signal is at stop.
Stop is Red over Red.

Reduce to Medium Speed is Yellow over Green , next fixed signal displaying a Medium Speed Proceed Indication.

Clear Medium Speed is Red over Green , next fixed signal is at proceed.
Medium Speed Warning is Red over Yellow , next fixed signal is at stop.
Stop is Red over Red.

Best wishes and regards, Radioman.

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