Freight trains could be banned from Dandenong Rail Line

 

News article: Freight trains could be banned from Dandenong Rail Line

Railpage has been provided with information concerning the development of the skyrail above ground rail line construction on the Dandenong corridor.

  mikesyd Chief Commissioner

Location: Lurking
Was also on 3aw today and other media outlets and some talk around the government and not the first time this has been raised. The link above does not provide comment from any credible source. Daniel Bowen has let himself down by quoting some Wong guy ranting about Railpage and is not from LXRA. Has no clue either.
That 'some Wong guy' is a well-respected member of the rail enthusiast community who has been quoted in multiple newspaper articles over the years. You could learn a lot from him.

Railpage has done itself an immense disservice by publishing such baseless drivel and it should be retracted. If Railpage wants to pretend that it's a reputable news source, then the people running the News section have to actually act like it is one. Protip: when it comes to the rail industry, an anonymous 'Letter To The Editor' is as worthless as any other nonsense rumour cooked up because Old Mate didn't have anything else interesting to talk about over lunch.
LancedDendrite
That 'some Wong guy' was the 3rd poster in this thread, and definitely well respected.

And I agree, a 'News' article should have a reputable source "Letters to the Editor" is hardly that.

The News Article should be deleted, along with this entire thread.

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  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
Been google checking and reading and just love this thread because it is about time some of the statements around skyrail were checked. I can't find anywhere on the Lxra site were it specifically says freight will be supported on the Dandenong line and I am glad it is being discussed.

So what if it turns out that it will be then we all know for sure.

Turn the volume up Railpage.

I read the tweet from Wong and say anyone who slags off another site has no Credibility.
  dthead Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Wongm, Daniel Bowen are all long time posters who if they post, I listen - like I do to many here even in this thread.

Sometimes refuting this news is the  intention of some, and it has been I feel, so worthy of public scunity. So, the news is revealed as fake.


"Next"


Regards,
David Head



BTW do not accuse people  unless you have the facts - otherwise you enter a grey area, so in future, be careful what you say about people....
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
It is afterall a Letter to the editor ans should be treated as such so what is the big deal?
  mikesyd Chief Commissioner

Location: Lurking
I can't find anywhere on the Lxra site were it specifically says freight will be supported on the Dandenong line and I am glad it is being discussed.
freightgate
2nd question and answer here :

http://levelcrossings.vic.gov.au/crossings/previous-consultation-caulfield-to-dandenong/caulfield-to-dandenong-frequently-asked-questions

Quote :

Will you continue to run diesel trains on the old tracks underneath the new rail line?The new elevated structure will be designed to safely carry both Metro passenger trains and diesel freight trains. Just as passenger and freight trains share tracks currently, they would continue to share tracks in the elevated design. The tracks underneath the elevated structure will be removed to create new community spaces.
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
Does suggest they will support freight so thanks for the link. Could there be talk about construction and engineering which may have interfered with this position and maybe that's where it is coming from.
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
We have heard all this before remember the shortcuts taken over the RRL and the flyover?

Still a valid discussion.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
Can someone clarify if the "news report" is a troll or not? Or just a misguided individual?
stooge spark
Has "Lower Our Tracks" written all over It

Have you read their pages ?
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
My understanding that new tracks will be built to 25 Tonne axle loads.
axle loads and total weight are different things when it comes to structures.  It may be able to handle a load at a particular point but not the load of maximum weights at all points.  It's a common issue in bridges and viaducts, factory and warehouse floors etc. It's even a problem in loading aircraft properly.

To give an example any point on the viaduct may be able to handle a 25 tonne load but the span may only be rated for 320 tonnes. Take off an allowance for the rails, sleepers and ballast (lets say that's 40 tonnes for the point of the exercise - I don't have the actual figure) and that means the span can only hold 280 tonnes. As most of the trains are double headed if the span is longer than 2 locos (or 2 locos and part of a wagon) then the span may not be able to hold the weight of the train.

In steam days there were bridges where 2 R Classes were not allowed to pass due to the weights on the spans.  They could however double head on some of them as the span length meant the weight of the 2 locos was never on a single span.  However if they were going opposite directions to locos could be on the same span at the same time and if both were R classes the design weights were exceeded
HardWorkingMan
I'm sure the viaduct spans are well over engineered the accommodate all foreseeable train consists with an axle loading up to 25 Tonne at normal line speed.
  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: I was here first. You're only visiting.
Railpage has done itself an immense disservice by publishing such baseless drivel and it should be retracted. If Railpage wants to pretend that it's a reputable news source, then the people running the News section have to actually act like it is one. Protip: when it comes to the rail industry, an anonymous 'Letter To The Editor' is as worthless as any other nonsense rumour cooked up because Old Mate didn't have anything else interesting to talk about over lunch.
LancedDendrite
One thing worse than people starting malicious rumours is people spreading them...
  jakar Assistant Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
This is definitely a persistent rumor that doesn't seem to want to go away. I have had it mentioned to me several times lately and as recently as last week by people in the transport industry that have an interest in the goings on with skyrail. These people are quite switched on and have contacts in the relevant government departments, but someone or some group must be continually stoking the fire with these continuous reports of inadequate design.

I personally believe its a complete rumor and everything will be fine, but it would be nice to see a technical report rather than a tweet or words on a webpage put there by a web designer so that the rumor can be squashed once and for all.
  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: I was here first. You're only visiting.
This is definitely a persistent rumor that doesn't seem to want to go away. I have had it mentioned to me several times lately and as recently as last week by people in the transport industry that have an interest in the goings on with skyrail. These people are quite switched on and have contacts in the relevant government departments, but someone or some group must be continually stoking the fire with these continuous reports of inadequate design.

I personally believe its a complete rumor and everything will be fine, but it would be nice to see a technical report rather than a tweet or words on a webpage put there by a web designer so that the rumor can be squashed once and for all.
jakar
So, you want hard evidence to say that there won't be a problem but you do not require hard evidence to say that it is?

Pathetic.
  TheMeddlingMonk Deputy Commissioner

Location: The Time Vortex near Melbourne, Australia
This is definitely a persistent rumor that doesn't seem to want to go away. I have had it mentioned to me several times lately and as recently as last week by people in the transport industry that have an interest in the goings on with skyrail. These people are quite switched on and have contacts in the relevant government departments, but someone or some group must be continually stoking the fire with these continuous reports of inadequate design.

I personally believe its a complete rumor and everything will be fine, but it would be nice to see a technical report rather than a tweet or words on a webpage put there by a web designer so that the rumor can be squashed once and for all.
So, you want hard evidence to say that there won't be a problem but you do not require hard evidence to say that it is?

Pathetic.
DirtyBallast
That's a bit harsh, DirtyBallast. Jakar clearly stated his view (that it's just rumour) and only said it would be nice to see a technical report so that the rumour can be squashed (i.e. not to convince him).
  jakar Assistant Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
This is definitely a persistent rumor that doesn't seem to want to go away. I have had it mentioned to me several times lately and as recently as last week by people in the transport industry that have an interest in the goings on with skyrail. These people are quite switched on and have contacts in the relevant government departments, but someone or some group must be continually stoking the fire with these continuous reports of inadequate design.

I personally believe its a complete rumor and everything will be fine, but it would be nice to see a technical report rather than a tweet or words on a webpage put there by a web designer so that the rumor can be squashed once and for all.
So, you want hard evidence to say that there won't be a problem but you do not require hard evidence to say that it is?

Pathetic.
DirtyBallast
DirtyBallast I don't think you've understood what I was saying, I personally don't require any evidence as I believe it to be all good and just a rumor, which i stated in my previous post.

However, given how prevalent this rumor is and how cynical people are these days with government responses the quickest way to put it to bed would be rather than saying 'she'll be right, trust us!', is to release some factual technical information giving the axle limit, total weight allowed and so on. Then the anti-sky rail people or whoever started this rumor can't keep spreading it which is doing rail more harm than good.

By the way, some of the people I referred to earlier were actually from within v/line, local government and freight companies. I've also had non-rail people try to tell me that either the upcoming A2 tour or the snow train will be the last ever steam engines to run to Gippsland due to the new bridges unable to take their weight! If you think it's "pathetic" that i'd prefer these rumors to stop sooner rather than later, so be it.
  woodford Chief Commissioner

I am another reader of Railpage that is disapointed that this "news item" was given so much air, as my first reply says it was very likely rubbish. A "News item"  without an apparent source should ALWAYS be treated with EXTREME scepticism.

woodford
  allsmiles Station Master

As posted above, someone has been peddling this rumor around the traps for many months now. I first came across it six months a go, and following it up could find no substance to it.

I think it is good to get it out there and get some facts that either support it, or demolish it.

If posting it gets us that result, then how can it be bad or detracting from the reputation of Railpage?  (Let me speculate, could there be another reason for the challenge to the Railpage reputation?)

As for some of the engineering standards that have been used on our railways, you don't have to look far to find some extremely stupid examples of short sighted and misguided decisions. (Don't let me get started, the example are just to numerous, it is depressing.)

So let me ask, is it little wonder that a rumor such as this can grow legs and run?
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
The group may be interested in knowing despite assurances from the LXRA and two phone calls the promised communique stating there are no and will be no issues with freight on the Dandenong corridor is yet to be received.
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

The group may be interested in knowing despite assurances from the LXRA and two phone calls the promised communique stating there are no and will be no issues with freight on the Dandenong corridor is yet to be received.
bevans
Give them a few more hours.  It's not even 8am in the morning!
  Lad_Porter Chief Commissioner

Location: Yarra Glen
Why is this rubbish perpetrated in the name of Railpage?

  • Railpage has been provided with ....
  • Railpage has received information ...
  • Railpage believes ...
  • Railpage has written to ...

Were any of these statements correct before this thread was started?
  wongm GEEWONG

Location: Geelong, Victoria
This is definitely a persistent rumor that doesn't seem to want to go away. I have had it mentioned to me several times lately and as recently as last week by people in the transport industry that have an interest in the goings on with skyrail. These people are quite switched on and have contacts in the relevant government departments, but someone or some group must be continually stoking the fire with these continuous reports of inadequate design.

I personally believe its a complete rumor and everything will be fine, but it would be nice to see a technical report rather than a tweet or words on a webpage put there by a web designer so that the rumor can be squashed once and for all.
So, you want hard evidence to say that there won't be a problem but you do not require hard evidence to say that it is?

Pathetic.
That's a bit harsh, DirtyBallast. Jakar clearly stated his view (that it's just rumour) and only said it would be nice to see a technical report so that the rumour can be squashed (i.e. not to convince him).
TheMeddlingMonk
The anti-Skyrail mod are looking more like anti-vaxers every day - spreading baseless rumours and misinformation with no regards to fact.

On both topics evidence will convince almost everyone, except those with a religious level of conviction behind their beliefs.
  KRviator Moderator

Location: Up the front
A Letter to the Editor is not news, and it never will be.

IF and/or when an answer is received either way, this thread can be reopened. Until then, it is doing RP more harm than good.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
The following has been received in response to a email received yesterday at Railpage and other media organisations.  I think this must out the issue to bed for all concerned.

Freight trains will be able to use the elevated line we're building.

The elevated structure will safely cater for both freight and passenger trains. Just as passenger and freight trains share tracks currently, they will continue to share tracks in the elevated design.
In Victoria, the heaviest allowable freight trains are under 23 tonnes per axle.

The elevated rail between Caulfield and Dandenong will easily and safely carry this weight, as well as being future-proofed, as it is being built to be able to carry up to 25 tonnes per axle.
Quote attributable to Project Director Brett Summers: "Not only will freight trains be able to safely run on the new elevated line, they'll run more efficiently as there won’t be any level crossings to negotiate between Dandenong and the city."

Media Team Level Crossing Removal AuthorityT: 0438 572 587 E: media@levelcrossings.vic.gov.au
levelcrossings.vic.gov.au

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