Derailment dooonside

 
  westernline Train Controller

Location: San Onofre California
heard on  radio 2gb a pn coal train possibly derailed this morning   near doonside any one know?

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  Junction box Chief Commissioner

Location: newy
Yep you and now us, thanks, would mess up the west sparks.
  x31 Chief Commissioner

Location: gallifrey
Yep you and now us, thanks, would mess up the west sparks.
Junction box

??
  meh Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney
It was an empty coal train heading East, looks like the last three wagons came off. Have some pics I can upload later.
  gordon_s1942 Chief Commissioner

Location: Central Tablelands of NSW
A rather unusual consist for there to be empty wagons on an East bound Colliery isnt it?
  Inside Station Master

Location: on the inside

  • 0139hrs Pacific National Freight Service 1229 Up Main Line at Doonside reported possibly derailed.
  • IMF 2 at 0152hrs.
  • 0227hrs IRC on site.
  • Wagon RHJF 43032. 3rd last in consist both bogies derailed all wheels.
  • Wagon RHJF 43030. 2nd last in consist lead bogie derailed all wheels.
  meh Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney
  • 0139hrs Pacific National Freight Service 1229 Up Main Line at Doonside reported possibly derailed.
  • IMF 2 at 0152hrs.
  • 0227hrs IRC on site.
  • Wagon RHJF 43032. 3rd last in consist both bogies derailed all wheels.
  • Wagon RHJF 43030. 2nd last in consist lead bogie derailed all wheels.
Inside
Ah right, they were RHJF (ex NHSH/NHBH) wagons not the coal variety. I stand corrected Smile
  x31 Chief Commissioner

Location: gallifrey

  • 0139hrs Pacific National Freight Service 1229 Up Main Line at Doonside reported possibly derailed.
  • IMF 2 at 0152hrs.
  • 0227hrs IRC on site.
  • Wagon RHJF 43032. 3rd last in consist both bogies derailed all wheels.
  • Wagon RHJF 43030. 2nd last in consist lead bogie derailed all wheels.
Inside

Great info thanks.
  theanimal Chief Commissioner

Yep you and now us, thanks, would mess up the west sparks.
Junction box
Run it through google translator, now waiting for access to the ENIGMA machine, but in the mean time, would you mind pandering to an old mans fantasies and provide an English translation for this please?

Many thanks.
  gordon_s1942 Chief Commissioner

Location: Central Tablelands of NSW
Yep you and now us, thanks, would mess up the west sparks.
Run it through google translator, now waiting for access to the ENIGMA machine, but in the mean time, would you mind pandering to an old mans fantasies and provide an English translation for this please?

Many thanks.
theanimal
'West Sparks' = Sydney suburban/Interurban ELECTRIC services ???

The early electrics often threw the odd spark or 2 at O/H joints and crossings but later pantograph and control technologies seem to have quelled that feature somewhat.
  theanimal Chief Commissioner

Yep you and now us, thanks, would mess up the west sparks.
Run it through google translator, now waiting for access to the ENIGMA machine, but in the mean time, would you mind pandering to an old mans fantasies and provide an English translation for this please?

Many thanks.
theanimal
oops.  my comment on the illegible posting was in relation to the  post
Yep you and now us, thanks, would mess up the west sparks.
junction box
  Junction box Chief Commissioner

Location: newy
West as in Doonside on the West and 'sparks' as in an electric train that flickers sparks.
Used to work in the metrop but now reside on the Maitland line, OH wire is now an unusual feature.
  theanimal Chief Commissioner

West as in Doonside on the West and 'sparks' as in an electric train that flickers sparks.
Used to work in the metrop but now reside on the Maitland line, OH wire is now an unusual feature.
Junction box
Yes lived and worked in Sydney for 40+years understood the reference to sparks it was the words  
Yep you and now us,
Somebody

that had me confused am still unsure of their context
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik

  • 0139hrs Pacific National Freight Service 1229 Up Main Line at Doonside reported possibly derailed.
  • IMF 2 at 0152hrs.
  • 0227hrs IRC on site.
  • Wagon RHJF 43032. 3rd last in consist both bogies derailed all wheels.
  • Wagon RHJF 43030. 2nd last in consist lead bogie derailed all wheels.

Great info thanks.
x31
It's not to those who don't speak NSW.
IMF
IRC
  theanimal Chief Commissioner


  • 0139hrs Pacific National Freight Service 1229 Up Main Line at Doonside reported possibly derailed.
  • IMF 2 at 0152hrs.
  • 0227hrs IRC on site.
  • Wagon RHJF 43032. 3rd last in consist both bogies derailed all wheels.
  • Wagon RHJF 43030. 2nd last in consist lead bogie derailed all wheels.

Great info thanks.
It's not to those who don't speak NSW.
IMF
IRC
YM-Mundrabilla
IMF - Incident Management Framework - the hierarchical method of determining the response category (in this case a level 2)  you can even read it here: http://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/sydneytrains/emergency-preparedness

IRC - Incident Response Coordinator - formerly a Network Operations Superintendent
  KRviator Moderator

Location: Up the front
A rather unusual consist for there to be empty wagons on an East bound Colliery isnt it?
gordon_s1942
While not a coalie in the end, it wouldn't be unheard of for a loco failure on the empty to result in a part-loaded train for the return journey. We did it several times in the Hunter when one rolled over on us heading to the mine. Work out the sectional load for the remaining 2/3 locos, and work out what combination of loaded & empty wagons would give us that figure. Tell the TLO operator on arrival how many he can load and you'll get home with no problems - it saved blocking the mine loop while sending out rescue loco's - with the associated delays & crewing problems - just to get that extra 2500 tonnes of coal to the port.

I even recall a couple of occasions where the mine couldn't receive the train and it couldn't be diverted so we ran round the loop and empty back to the port!
  petan Chief Commissioner

Location: Waiting to see a zebra using a zebra crossing!
A rather unusual consist for there to be empty wagons on an East bound Colliery isnt it?
We did it several times in the Hunter when one rolled over on us heading to the mine.
KRviator
You say it rolled over but no mention of the re-railing process such as crane??
  1771D Junior Train Controller

Rolled over and fell asleep vs actually rolled over.
  petan Chief Commissioner

Location: Waiting to see a zebra using a zebra crossing!
Rolled over and fell asleep vs actually rolled over.
1771D
Do you mean the loco broke down?
  1771D Junior Train Controller

I believe this was the context of the statement, but the author can confirm.
  KRviator Moderator

Location: Up the front

Laughing Apologies Petan, having a loco shutdown on the way to the mine is what I meant. My 3 derailments so far haven't been spectacular enough to have loco's on their side....yet...

An example: 3 x 90's can bring 10,920 tonnes home from the Valley, 6,720 for a double, or 3,240 for a single loco if you're having a really bad day. So if one shutdown on the way up, 49 loaded wagons at 120 tonnes gives 5,880 + 42 empty wagons at 20 tonnes each at 840 tonnes puts you right on the sectional load of  6,720 tonnes for two 90 Class. You've brought home 4,900 tonnes of coal and left 4,200 tonnes behind, but the cost of associated delays (2nd crew for relief loco's, OT for you if you bust, pathing costs for rescue locos, demurrage for ships, etc) is usually a lot more than the price of that 4,200 tonnes.
  petan Chief Commissioner

Location: Waiting to see a zebra using a zebra crossing!
Laughing Apologies Petan, having a loco shutdown on the way to the mine is what I meant. My 3 derailments so far haven't been spectacular enough to have loco's on their side....yet...

An example: 3 x 90's can bring 10,920 tonnes home from the Valley, 6,720 for a double, or 3,240 for a single loco if you're having a really bad day. So if one shutdown on the way up, 49 loaded wagons at 120 tonnes gives 5,880 + 42 empty wagons at 20 tonnes each at 840 tonnes puts you right on the sectional load of  6,720 tonnes for two 90 Class. You've brought home 4,900 tonnes of coal and left 4,200 tonnes behind, but the cost of associated delays (2nd crew for relief loco's, OT for you if you bust, pathing costs for rescue locos, demurrage for ships, etc) is usually a lot more than the price of that 4,200 tonnes.
KRviator
Thanks and now understood and also thanks 1771D for help as well Smile  But in the process, I also gained an extra understanding via the tonnage figures and how you worked it all out ie 42 + 49 = 91 wagons full load then times 120 for the 10920 total load. Also noted 120 wagon gross split as 100 paylaod and 20 tare.

Back to the Doonside situation; I can see how some empty wagons can easily be on a loaded coal train inbound to the unloader(edited) which was the point of your original post Smile
  Throughwestmail Train Controller

petan
The train concerned here is an empty that runs from the Holcim siding at Rooty Hill back to Marulan for reloading of crushed metal for the Holcim (previously Readymix concrete) distribution centre at Rooty Hill. A number of these trains run in each direction each day, normally in push pull mode so shunting is not required at St Marys or Rooty Hill.

Also, IRC = Incident Rail Commander
  M636C Minister for Railways


  • 0139hrs Pacific National Freight Service 1229 Up Main Line at Doonside reported possibly derailed.
  • IMF 2 at 0152hrs.
  • 0227hrs IRC on site.
  • Wagon RHJF 43032. 3rd last in consist both bogies derailed all wheels.
  • Wagon RHJF 43030. 2nd last in consist lead bogie derailed all wheels.

Great info thanks.
It's not to those who don't speak NSW.
IMF
IRC
YM-Mundrabilla
Train 1229 is an empty stone train runnining to Lynwood quarry just south of Marulan from the Holcim aggregate depot at Rooty Hill. These services are usually operated by ECP equipped NR class one each end of RHKY hoppers. Owing to increasing demand one train of 100 tonne gross coal hoppers type NHBH or NHSH was converted for aggregate traffic and is hauled by a pair of 81 class, at least part of the time one at each end since neither Rooty Hill nor Lynwood have loops to release the locomotives and Rooty Hill requires reversal and wrong line running on entry (hence the ECP distributed power operation on other trains).
  gordon_s1942 Chief Commissioner

Location: Central Tablelands of NSW
I was guilty of assuming those wagons were Coal only not for other purposes and thats what made me curious as to why would 3 MPT's be heading EAST !!!

Back in the 70's we had problems at Wallerawang with trains turning with 'other' materials such as some sort of Coke or Clinker in the wagons.  In one case the volume on the train was equal to 3 X 80 tonnes of debris that had to be emptied before they could be loaded with coal. Not one of the 38 wagons on that train were clean.
One idea was to partly open the bottom hopper doors and slowly pull the train along the Wallerawang Colliery Branch line and hope it fell out evenly and not clump and derail the wagon.
Obviously this was not a great idea as it was both dangerous and took hours to get them empty.

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