Yet More Ararat Trains

 
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

Just announced Friday  09/06/17  9 further weekly trips for Ararat, bringing total extra Ararat trips per week from late 08/17
to 19.

Appears total Ararat package is  :

Weekdays - becomes 5 Up and 4  Down .  Weekends 3  each way .

Weekdays  Down  0817 as now, 1217 as now plus an early afternoon Down Ballarat extended to Ararat , then 1826 as now.

Up  :  New 0640 Up form existing 0739 Up Wendouree arrive Sthn Cross just before 0900,  existing 0716 Up probably put back 70 minutes to form 0914  ex Wendouree ,  1226 Up as now, a new mid afternoon Up as as extension of an existing Ballarat,and 1649  Up as now .

Weekends as extensions of new Ballarats on Saturday hourly frequency (from 08/17)  new trip ex Ararat late morning, and new trip to Ararat ex Melbourne early afternoon .

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  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
What rolling stock are these services?  N Class or VLos?
  x31 Chief Commissioner

Location: gallifrey
What rolling stock are these services?  N Class or VLos?
james.au

No where to run around on BG at Ararat so will be Vlocity sets one would assume.
  WimmeraJack Station Staff

What rolling stock are these services?  N Class or VLos?
james.au
No provision for a Loco to run around.  Would have to be VLO's

John.
  stooge spark Chief Train Controller

Location: My House
The formatting looks a little off, are they coming 19th of August or just sometime in August?
  hbedriver Assistant Commissioner

They could do push-pull with a pair of P class. Rumour has it they won't be required after August.
  L1150 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Pakenham Vic.
They could do push-pull with a pair of P class. Rumour has it they won't be required after August.
hbedriver
Might have a bit of trouble keeping to timetable. Last time I rode an up V'lo from Ararat, our average speed from Ararat to Wendouree, including a stop at Beaufort was 117 km/h. Very Happy ( Not bad with a 130km/h limit!)
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

They could do push-pull with a pair of P class. Rumour has it they won't be required after August.
Might have a bit of trouble keeping to timetable. Last time I rode an up V'lo from Ararat, our average speed from Ararat to Wendouree, including a stop at Beaufort was 117 km/h. Very Happy ( Not bad with a 130km/h limit!)
L1150
Additional trips will all be V/locity as extensions of Ballarat services .

All VLP train times alter from late  August, total new tt including all the new services .
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

.........Appears total Ararat package is  :

Weekdays - becomes 5 Up and 4  Down .  Weekends 3  each way ...........
kuldalai


How are the weekday movements balanced? Is one of the downs a 6-car with two drivers that splits into 2 x 3-car for the ups?
  TOQ-1 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Power Trainger
I wrote to PTV about no extra weekend services on the Ararat line about a month ago, asking why there was a 6 hour gap between services on Saturday, and were they going to add an extra coach to even it out a little.

PTV sent back some drivel about the Ballarat Line upgrade (entirely irrelevant about running extra weekend services of either trains or buses to Ararat), and I passed it on to journalist friend in Stawell, who grabbed some quotes from a couple of interested parties. He wrote up a story about it, and 3 hours later this announcement is published. Just a little pressure and they bend at the knees.



I hate the way V/Line announce these things too. I would much rather see a proposed timetable, rather than descriptions of when the services might be.

I'm trying to make sense of whether the extra weekday services are trying to prevent having to add an extra road to the stabling. There's not much room to put in a second road or extend to 6 car long as there are sheds adjacent and a bridge at the up end. I can't see them leaving a VLO in the platform overnight in Ararat.

I don't think they would want to run a six car train to Ararat, the second unit would have to be empty as it wouldn't fit into the dock platform. I don't think you'd even have the first door on the platform.

I'm also interested to see how this affects Nhill/Horsham coaches. Are these completely additional services, or just replacing existing coaches that will now have pax change in Ararat rather than Ballarat.
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
How are the weekday movements balanced? Is one of the downs a 6-car with two drivers that splits into 2 x 3-car for the ups?
Kitchgp
Currently, the 1825 down Ararat is a 6 car vlo, splits at Ballarat and 1 set continues on to Ararat, the other then continues on to Wendouree and forms an up service departing Wendouree for Melbourne at 2008.

My guess is, the 1825 Down Ararat service will now run to Ararat as a 6 car train, stable, run back as two seperate trains in the AM.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
I'm also interested to see how this affects Nhill/Horsham coaches. Are these completely additional services, or just replacing existing coaches that will now have pax change in Ararat rather than Ballarat.
TOQ-1
I catch the Daylink a few times a year to Ballarat and in the past the coach connecting from Horsham has changed to a train at Ararat - but on the most recent occasion it was a bus all the way through to Ballarat. The bus is certainly much slower - it gets off the new dual carriageway to go into places like Buangor and Trawalla but it does have its local users.

Presumably with the new change of timetable they'll connect the Horsham coach with a train again?
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

.......
I'm trying to make sense of whether the extra weekday services are trying to prevent having to add an extra road to the stabling. There's not much room to put in a second road or extend to 6 car long as there are sheds adjacent and a bridge at the up end. I can't see them leaving a VLO in the platform overnight in Ararat.
...........
TOQ-1

.
........
My guess is, the 1825 Down Ararat service will now run to Ararat as a 6 car train, stable, run back as two seperate trains in the AM.
Gman_86

Thanks. Effectively 5 x 3-car each way. If this is the case, it seems loading/unloading or splitting and using the stabling siding will be a bit complicated. Currently Google Earth shows a 3-car in the dock platform.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

.........Appears total Ararat package is  :

Weekdays - becomes 5 Up and 4  Down .  Weekends 3  each way ...........


How are the weekday movements balanced? Is one of the downs a 6-car with two drivers that splits into 2 x 3-car for the ups?
kitchgp
Ararat stabling currently will only hold 2x2 Sprinter sets as it was set up under Sprinter operations . Dock platform is 120m long from memory . The recently announced country  package includes extra stabling at Ararat if I recall correctly, but that would not be done by 08/17.  There is heaps of room to allow extension of the existing stabling compound in an Up direction by the required    90 metres .  Bit of earthworks required to create a flat track, but no great drama .

Dont think VLP will leave the second set in platform at night and that is why the imbalance of trains .  So suspect on Weekdays  the 0745 Up Ballarat will originate from Ararat around 0640 and do a join up for double consist at Ballarat . With the single line working that would have the second am Up ex Ararat dropping back to connect with a later Up Wendouree .

The imbalance of cars will probably involve an early am  Ety Cars from Ballarat to Ararat to form the first am Up , because only one car set can be stabled currently at Ararat .

With the two am Ups before the first  Down tickets will get regular use on this Staff & Ticket section .
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

I wrote to PTV about no extra weekend services on the Ararat line about a month ago, asking why there was a 6 hour gap between services on Saturday, and were they going to add an extra coach to even it out a little.

PTV sent back some drivel about the Ballarat Line upgrade (entirely irrelevant about running extra weekend services of either trains or buses to Ararat), and I passed it on to journalist friend in Stawell, who grabbed some quotes from a couple of interested parties. He wrote up a story about it, and 3 hours later this announcement is published. Just a little pressure and they bend at the knees.



I hate the way V/Line announce these things too. I would much rather see a proposed timetable, rather than descriptions of when the services might be.

I'm trying to make sense of whether the extra weekday services are trying to prevent having to add an extra road to the stabling. There's not much room to put in a second road or extend to 6 car long as there are sheds adjacent and a bridge at the up end. I can't see them leaving a VLO in the platform overnight in Ararat.

I don't think they would want to run a six car train to Ararat, the second unit would have to be empty as it wouldn't fit into the dock platform. I don't think you'd even have the first door on the platform.

I'm also interested to see how this affects Nhill/Horsham coaches. Are these completely additional services, or just replacing existing coaches that will now have pax change in Ararat rather than Ballarat.
TOQ-1
It is an absolute waste of time writing to PTV . They have an army of spin doctors to handle suggestions who just send out generic responses. Nothing is really investigated or followed up .  VLP arent much better .  A level crossinga t Lara has been closed with aguards 24/7 for over a week.  No VLP staff have been seen on site  .  All the V/Line spin doctress will say to local media is that it is owing to "an asset fault"  !!!!  which  tells us absolutely nothing  !!! Dont you just love the spin jargon - asset fault  ?
  TOQ-1 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Power Trainger
I wrote to PTV about no extra weekend services on the Ararat line about a month ago, asking why there was a 6 hour gap between services on Saturday, and were they going to add an extra coach to even it out a little.

PTV sent back some drivel about the Ballarat Line upgrade (entirely irrelevant about running extra weekend services of either trains or buses to Ararat), and I passed it on to journalist friend in Stawell, who grabbed some quotes from a couple of interested parties. He wrote up a story about it, and 3 hours later this announcement is published. Just a little pressure and they bend at the knees.



I hate the way V/Line announce these things too. I would much rather see a proposed timetable, rather than descriptions of when the services might be.

I'm trying to make sense of whether the extra weekday services are trying to prevent having to add an extra road to the stabling. There's not much room to put in a second road or extend to 6 car long as there are sheds adjacent and a bridge at the up end. I can't see them leaving a VLO in the platform overnight in Ararat.

I don't think they would want to run a six car train to Ararat, the second unit would have to be empty as it wouldn't fit into the dock platform. I don't think you'd even have the first door on the platform.

I'm also interested to see how this affects Nhill/Horsham coaches. Are these completely additional services, or just replacing existing coaches that will now have pax change in Ararat rather than Ballarat.
It is an absolute waste of time writing to PTV . They have an army of spin doctors to handle suggestions who just send out generic responses. Nothing is really investigated or followed up .  VLP arent much better .  A level crossinga t Lara has been closed with aguards 24/7 for over a week.  No VLP staff have been seen on site  .  All the V/Line spin doctress will say to local media is that it is owing to "an asset fault"  !!!!  which  tells us absolutely nothing  !!! Dont you just love the spin jargon - asset fault  ?
kuldalai
I'd actually love to write back to them now, as their response was "no plans" for more services, then just a couple of weeks later we have this. Either they have entire disdain for anyone who contacts them and just fobs them off, or the various departments don't actually talk to each other. And it actually was useful in that I could pass it on to the paper to show the disregard that the region was being treated with.

I don't think PTV/ V/Line reaslise that if they just communicate openly with pax, they will be appreciated more. I was on an Up Swan Hill train yesterday that was running late because of speed restrictions. No one explained this to passengers, so we end up 20 minutes late into the city, and at 6pm on a Saturday, that's missed connections for a lot of people. If you notify people before the fact they can plan accordingly.
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

So 6-car consists from Ballarat can't be properly accommodated until either the dock platform is lengthened or the line converted to SG (and all that goes with it). If overnighting is required for other than 1 x 3-car set, then the stabling siding has to be lengthened for 2 x 3-car BG set, the points moved east and the siding lengthened for a 6-car BG set or a crossover provided and the siding lengthened for SG sets.
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

Interesting timetabling. If it's all 3-car sets, it means the passengers on the two AM ups will have to cram into the1826 ex-Melbourne for the return journey. The down capacity is only 80% of the up.
  TOQ-1 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Power Trainger
Interesting timetabling. If it's all 3-car sets, it means the passengers on the two AM ups will have to cram into the1826 ex-Melbourne for the return journey. The down capacity is only 80% of the up.
kitchgp
Train services only run between 30-50% full at the moment. Coach services run at about 50-100% full depending on the time of day. This is more about shifting people from coaches to trains. There will probably be an equal number of services in each direction, just not all of them are trains.
  trainbrain Chief Commissioner

.........Appears total Ararat package is  :

Weekdays - becomes 5 Up and 4  Down .  Weekends 3  each way ...........


How are the weekday movements balanced? Is one of the downs a 6-car with two drivers that splits into 2 x 3-car for the ups?
Ararat stabling currently will only hold 2x2 Sprinter sets as it was set up under Sprinter operations . Dock platform is 120m long from memory . The recently announced country  package includes extra stabling at Ararat if I recall correctly, but that would not be done by 08/17.  There is heaps of room to allow extension of the existing stabling compound in an Up direction by the required    90 metres .  Bit of earthworks required to create a flat track, but no great drama .

Dont think VLP will leave the second set in platform at night and that is why the imbalance of trains .  So suspect on Weekdays  the 0745 Up Ballarat will originate from Ararat around 0640 and do a join up for double consist at Ballarat . With the single line working that would have the second am Up ex Ararat dropping back to connect with a later Up Wendouree .

The imbalance of cars will probably involve an early am  Ety Cars from Ballarat to Ararat to form the first am Up , because only one car set can be stabled currently at Ararat .

With the two am Ups before the first  Down tickets will get regular use on this Staff & Ticket section .
kuldalai
According to Vline Website although that it is a Staff and Ticket section Ararat- Ballarat staff tickets will not be issued.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
.........Appears total Ararat package is  :

Weekdays - becomes 5 Up and 4  Down .  Weekends 3  each way ...........


How are the weekday movements balanced? Is one of the downs a 6-car with two drivers that splits into 2 x 3-car for the ups?
Ararat stabling currently will only hold 2x2 Sprinter sets as it was set up under Sprinter operations . Dock platform is 120m long from memory . The recently announced country  package includes extra stabling at Ararat if I recall correctly, but that would not be done by 08/17.  There is heaps of room to allow extension of the existing stabling compound in an Up direction by the required    90 metres .  Bit of earthworks required to create a flat track, but no great drama .

Dont think VLP will leave the second set in platform at night and that is why the imbalance of trains .  So suspect on Weekdays  the 0745 Up Ballarat will originate from Ararat around 0640 and do a join up for double consist at Ballarat . With the single line working that would have the second am Up ex Ararat dropping back to connect with a later Up Wendouree .

The imbalance of cars will probably involve an early am  Ety Cars from Ballarat to Ararat to form the first am Up , because only one car set can be stabled currently at Ararat .

With the two am Ups before the first  Down tickets will get regular use on this Staff & Ticket section .
According to Vline Website although that it is a Staff and Ticket section Ararat- Ballarat staff tickets will not be issued.
trainbrain
Probably a six months training course necessary to use tickets (haha).
Perhaps transfer the staff back by taxi or some similarly ridiculous arrangement.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

I wrote to PTV about no extra weekend services on the Ararat line about a month ago, asking why there was a 6 hour gap between services on Saturday, and were they going to add an extra coach to even it out a little.

PTV sent back some drivel about the Ballarat Line upgrade (entirely irrelevant about running extra weekend services of either trains or buses to Ararat), and I passed it on to journalist friend in Stawell, who grabbed some quotes from a couple of interested parties. He wrote up a story about it, and 3 hours later this announcement is published. Just a little pressure and they bend at the knees.



I hate the way V/Line announce these things too. I would much rather see a proposed timetable, rather than descriptions of when the services might be.

I'm trying to make sense of whether the extra weekday services are trying to prevent having to add an extra road to the stabling. There's not much room to put in a second road or extend to 6 car long as there are sheds adjacent and a bridge at the up end. I can't see them leaving a VLO in the platform overnight in Ararat.

I don't think they would want to run a six car train to Ararat, the second unit would have to be empty as it wouldn't fit into the dock platform. I don't think you'd even have the first door on the platform.

I'm also interested to see how this affects Nhill/Horsham coaches. Are these completely additional services, or just replacing existing coaches that will now have pax change in Ararat rather than Ballarat.
It is an absolute waste of time writing to PTV . They have an army of spin doctors to handle suggestions who just send out generic responses. Nothing is really investigated or followed up .  VLP arent much better .  A level crossinga t Lara has been closed with aguards 24/7 for over a week.  No VLP staff have been seen on site  .  All the V/Line spin doctress will say to local media is that it is owing to "an asset fault"  !!!!  which  tells us absolutely nothing  !!! Dont you just love the spin jargon - asset fault  ?
I'd actually love to write back to them now, as their response was "no plans" for more services, then just a couple of weeks later we have this. Either they have entire disdain for anyone who contacts them and just fobs them off, or the various departments don't actually talk to each other. And it actually was useful in that I could pass it on to the paper to show the disregard that the region was being treated with.

I don't think PTV/ V/Line reaslise that if they just communicate openly with pax, they will be appreciated more. I was on an Up Swan Hill train yesterday that was running late because of speed restrictions. No one explained this to passengers, so we end up 20 minutes late into the city, and at 6pm on a Saturday, that's missed connections for a lot of people. If you notify people before the fact they can plan accordingly.
TOQ-1
What is most likely is this .  There is a very long lead time in preparing a new timetable and the finality of it would have been locked in many months ago .  Then you have all the layers of transport,  V/Line,  PTV,  Transport for Victoria and The State Department of Everything including Transport .  Pretty high risk there that most have a silo mentality and they are not talking to each other .
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

.........Appears total Ararat package is  :

Weekdays - becomes 5 Up and 4  Down .  Weekends 3  each way ...........


How are the weekday movements balanced? Is one of the downs a 6-car with two drivers that splits into 2 x 3-car for the ups?
Ararat stabling currently will only hold 2x2 Sprinter sets as it was set up under Sprinter operations . Dock platform is 120m long from memory . The recently announced country  package includes extra stabling at Ararat if I recall correctly, but that would not be done by 08/17.  There is heaps of room to allow extension of the existing stabling compound in an Up direction by the required    90 metres .  Bit of earthworks required to create a flat track, but no great drama .

Dont think VLP will leave the second set in platform at night and that is why the imbalance of trains .  So suspect on Weekdays  the 0745 Up Ballarat will originate from Ararat around 0640 and do a join up for double consist at Ballarat . With the single line working that would have the second am Up ex Ararat dropping back to connect with a later Up Wendouree .

The imbalance of cars will probably involve an early am  Ety Cars from Ballarat to Ararat to form the first am Up , because only one car set can be stabled currently at Ararat .

With the two am Ups before the first  Down tickets will get regular use on this Staff & Ticket section .
According to Vline Website although that it is a Staff and Ticket section Ararat- Ballarat staff tickets will not be issued.
Probably a six months training course necessary to use tickets (haha).
Perhaps transfer the staff back by taxi or some similarly ridiculous arrangement.
YM-Mundrabilla
More recent procedures have come out re the Weekly  Nuisance earlier this year, and it actually now a Wendouree - Ararat section worked under Staff & Ticket , and Tickets can be issued .

They certainly will not be transferring staffs back by taxi .
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
According to Vline Website although that it is a Staff and Ticket section Ararat- Ballarat staff tickets will not be issued.
Probably a six months training course necessary to use tickets (haha).
Perhaps transfer the staff back by taxi or some similarly ridiculous arrangement.
More recent procedures have come out re the Weekly  Nuisance earlier this year, and it actually now a Wendouree - Ararat section worked under Staff & Ticket , and Tickets can be issued .

They certainly will not be transferring staffs back by taxi .
kuldalai
That's a relief..................... (funnier things have happened) Smile
  TOQ-1 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Power Trainger
Had a look at the platform length today on my way home. You would fit a forth carriage in the dock platform meaning a 6VL could theoretically run here, the conductor would just have to be in the second set to make sure people move forward. It would however be longer than where the points to the stabling are, which would mean it would be messy to store it for the night if it wasn't heading straight back to Melbourne/Ballarat.

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