The generic Myki discussion thread - Regional and Metro

 
  cabidass Chief Train Controller

So there looks to be a heap of Myki threads, but no central place to go.

So here it is. Ta-da!

-----------------------------

My question is, does anyone know much about Myki on buses? I know right. In a train forum! Sheesh.


My regional area has it's own bus service, and I've been catching the bus into other towns. There are a few stops in my little hamlet, and what I want to know is if the myki reader in the bus registers exactly at what stop I get on?

It's only a small town in regional Vic, and I'm curious if any sat or GPS device could tell it if I got on at one street or another.

My reasoning is, I'm curious if PTV will ever use the data to tell exactly how may people get on at each stop. Again its only a small town, so all the stops are likely within a 2km radius.

Any help?

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  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
@cabidass It doesn't seem to be able to do that - when I touch on or off in only records the route number and which door I used.

I know this because I have a registered myki.
  N463 Locomotive Driver

It's only a small town in regional Vic, and I'm curious if any sat or GPS device could tell it if I got on at one street or another.
cabidass
GPS is accurate to about 8 meters, so this would be enough to seperate different stops.


My regional area has it's own bus service, and I've been catching the bus into other towns. There are a few stops in my little hamlet, and what I want to know is if the myki reader in the bus registers exactly at what stop I get on?
cabidass


@cabidass It doesn't seem to be able to do that - when I touch on or off in only records the route number and which door I used.
railblogger
Just because the information provided to passengers doesn't include this information doesn't mean they can't/don't collect it.

If you get a seat behind the Driver, you can sometimes see the screen of the Driver's Myki machine. This includes a white stripe near the top of the screen, which includes the current time, location (there is also a number on there for purposes I don't know). The location can be seen updating as the bus travels along, so the machine knows more or less where it is at any given time...


My reasoning is, I'm curious if PTV will ever use the data to tell exactly how may people get on at each stop. Again its only a small town, so all the stops are likely within a 2km radius.
cabidass

I'm not sure how accurate this next bit is, but I have heard that when Bendigo's bus network was revised at the start of last year, myki data was apparently used when deciding which stops should be closed. This would suggest that PTV have access to this information, even if they are not providing it to anyone else...



N463
  cabidass Chief Train Controller

Thanks.

Yeah I didn't want access to it, but as with the Bendigo case, I was curious if they would quantify people getting on at each stop when it comes time for a revision.

As stated, it's a very small town. And our increased bus services since 2012 will no doubt be under review at some time. Today I thought about walking further into town to the next stop. But then considered that should they ever cut off the top stop, I would be mandated to walk further, should they wish to shave a couple of mins off the route and justifing it by lack of patronage...

I'll pay more attention to the screen next time I take a trip.

The bus driver did suggest it would measure each stop. But then told me he'd only been working for 4 weeks. So I had doubts with his confidence... lol.
  stu1818 Junior Train Controller

Location: Longwarry, Victoria
14/06/2017 16:58:03 Touch off Bus 2 Dandenong,Route 812in_1
14/06/2017 16:21:59 Touch on Bus 2 Moorabbin Airport,Route 812in_1
14/06/2017 07:04:25 Touch off Bus 2 Braeside,Route 812out
14/06/2017 06:34:38 Touch on Bus 2 Dandenong,Route 812out

This is part of my transaction history from using buses on myki. In response to your original question, Yes, myki knows which stop you get on/off at and does record.
  cabidass Chief Train Controller

Just logged in to Myki.

Does anyone want to tell me how I can be charged:

  • $15.96 from Moe to SC - 12:00 - wed
  • $5.88 from SC to Bendigo - 15:00 - wed
  • $21.84 from Bendigo to SC - 13:00 - tue
  • $3.36 from SC to Moe - 11:30 - wed


How the hell does it calculate that?? Makes no sense.


With regards to the buses. I taped off a stop earlier on the way into Motown, and it was cheaper. So I know that at least in Moe they calculate the streets. As for the home town, can't tell at this stage. Will likely be a flat fee.

Not enough info on the statement to tell yet.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
With regards to the buses. I taped off a stop earlier on the way into Motown, and it was cheaper. So I know that at least in Moe they calculate the streets. As for the home town, can't tell at this stage. Will likely be a flat fee.

Not enough info on the statement to tell yet.
cabidass
Regional bus routes have zones just like metro and regional rail.

If I catch the but from Castlemaine to Winters Flat it is $1.20. If I go to Maldon on the same bus it is $1.60. This is with a manual ticketing system not Myki but the zone system is the same

GPS Imports Team
  cabidass Chief Train Controller

Yeah there are different zones in the bigger towns.

Just curious if the machine measures which stop in my town (of a couple km radius).

I have a feeling its just one fee within my town, but the machine will measure different stops for quantitative purposes.
  melbtrip Chief Commissioner

Location: Annoying Orange
Just logged in to Myki.

Does anyone want to tell me how I can be charged:

  • $15.96 from Moe to SC - 12:00 - wed
  • $5.88 from SC to Bendigo - 15:00 - wed
  • $21.84 from Bendigo to SC - 13:00 - tue
  • $3.36 from SC to Moe - 11:30 - wed


How the hell does it calculate that?? Makes no sense.


With regards to the buses. I taped off a stop earlier on the way into Motown, and it was cheaper. So I know that at least in Moe they calculate the streets. As for the home town, can't tell at this stage. Will likely be a flat fee.

Not enough info on the statement to tell yet.
cabidass

All fares are full fares and not a concession fare.


  • $15.96 from Moe to SC - 12:00 - wed

    Moe is Zone 9
    Southern Cross (Melbourne zone 1)

    9 -1 + 1 = 9 zones (melbourne Zone include)
    9 zones (induing zone 1) off-peak single fare -  $15.96
  • $5.88 from SC to Bendigo - 15:00 - wed

    Zone 1 to 13 off-peak fare -  $21.84

    But you have 9 zones fare on you MYKI,

    $21.84 - $15.96 = $5.88


  • $21.84 from Bendigo to SC - 13:00 - tue
    - off-peak 13 zone fare.
  • $3.36 from SC to Moe - 11:30 - wed
    - needs more information- like did you do a trip before hand?

    $3.36 most likely to be a  3 zones fare (not including Melbourne zone 1)
  cabidass Chief Train Controller

That makes no sense to me whatsoever.

To answer your last question, Traveled from Bendigo to W'gul in one day. Stayed in W'gul. Went to Moe the next day. No other travel on either day.
  cabidass Chief Train Controller

Nope. First part makes sense now. And that is what I was thinking.

But then the second part doesn't make sense. And what left me scratching my head (scratch head emoji)
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

............
  • $21.84 from Bendigo to SC - 13:00 - tue
  • $3.36 from SC to Moe - 11:30 - wed
  • ....................
    "cabidass"


    Should that read:
  • $21.84 from Bendigo to Warragul - 13:00 - tue
  • $3.36 from Warragul to Moe - 11:30 - wed
  • ?
      Gauntlet Chief Commissioner

    Location:
    I've figured out the last bit.
    Warragul zones 6/7
    Moe zones 9/10
    $3.36 is the fare for a trip in zones 7, 8 & 9 (or any 3 zones excluding zone 1).
      cabidass Chief Train Controller

    Should that read:
    kitchgp

    https://ibb.co/gmxboQ
      kitchgp Chief Commissioner

    From the 'myki V/Line commuter service - fare calculator', the cost of one-way off-peak travel from Bendigo to either Southern Cross (SCS), Warragul or Moe is $21.84 (product duration 4 hours), ie the maximum is reached at SCS. The separate next day's travel from Warragul to Moe is $3.36 (product duration 2.5 hours).
      cabidass Chief Train Controller

    Yeah it's never made sense to me.

    I'm going to have to sit down and study it all...
      Lad_Porter Chief Commissioner

    Location: Yarra Glen
    I had always believed that when transferring from Metro to V/Line, or vice versa, you are supposed to touch off from one before touching on to the other.  For example, coming from Lilydale and wanting to go to Ballarat, I had to touch off when exiting platform 10 at SCS, and then touch on again for the Ballarat train on platform 8S.

    That was fine, but on the return trip (having touched on at Ballarat), the Up from Ballarat came into SCS platform 15.  Between platforms 15 and 10 there no gates or myki readers, therefore impossible to touch off or on, so I just caught the next Lilydale train without touching off or on.  On arrival at Lilydale, the reader said "touch off successful", so that was OK, but just wondering about the supposed requirement to touch off and on again between the two providers.  Is that not the case, or is there something lacking in the transfer from RFR to suburban platforms at SCS?
      Lad_Porter Chief Commissioner

    Location: Yarra Glen
    It looks like I will occasionally have to go to Maryborough, and naturally I would prefer to have someone else doing the driving.  Obviously I can get as far as Ballarat on my myki, but I understand that there are no myki facilities at Maryborough station, so how does it work?  Would I buy a V/Line ticket at SCS, and if so, would it be for the entire journey or just for the Ballarat to Maryborough part?  If the latter, would I need to touch off/on at Ballarat?

    More generally, why are there no myki facilities at Maryborough?  It is not exactly a long haul destination requiring paper tickets and seat reservations, like Swan Hill or Bairnsdale.
      John.Z Assistant Commissioner

    I had always believed that when transferring from Metro to V/Line, or vice versa, you are supposed to touch off from one before touching on to the other.  For example, coming from Lilydale and wanting to go to Ballarat, I had to touch off when exiting platform 10 at SCS, and then touch on again for the Ballarat train on platform 8S.

    That was fine, but on the return trip (having touched on at Ballarat), the Up from Ballarat came into SCS platform 15.  Between platforms 15 and 10 there no gates or myki readers, therefore impossible to touch off or on, so I just caught the next Lilydale train without touching off or on.  On arrival at Lilydale, the reader said "touch off successful", so that was OK, but just wondering about the supposed requirement to touch off and on again between the two providers.  Is that not the case, or is there something lacking in the transfer from RFR to suburban platforms at SCS?
    Lad_Porter
    Touch on at first station, touch off at last. If you come from Ballarat/Bendigo/Geelong/Seymour lines and go to any Zone 2 station that requires a train through Richmond or Jolimont stations, it will charge you the full Zones 1-3/4/5 etc. If you get off at a Zone 2 station where a train goes through North Melbourne, it will charge you the Zone 2-3/4/5 fare, which is cheaper.

    To this point, it won't cost you extra if you touch off then on at southern cross unless you're going west. The system doesn't differentiate between modes of transport, only zones.
      TOQ-1 Deputy Commissioner

    Location: Power Trainger
    If you are boarding at Lilydale, buy a V/Line paper ticket there. It will cover your journey to Maryborough. AOs and Metro station staff will just wave you on if you flash it at them, they don't care.

    Maryborough, Ararat and Echuca all remain on paper tickets, probably because of their limited number of services.
      Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

    Location: Norda Fittazroy
    In Sydney, I can buy a single trip Opal card from a machine. I don't understand why Victoria persists in looking totally stupid by not having the same system.
      YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

    Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
    Caught a train from the Craigieburn line to Belgrave the other day:

    Forward journey
    Touched on at start of journey - OK I thought until -
    Touched off at Belgrave - machine said I was touching on - oh well got here unscathed so who cares - stoopid machine!

    Return journey
    Touched on at Belgrave - machine said I was touching off - oh well not my fault - what am I supposed to do?
    Touched off at destination - machine said something incomprehensible and unreadable through the scratches on the screen.

    Oh well no Gestapo checking tickets so no worries but interesting what they might have said on both journeys where the thing appears to have thought that I was either not touched on (forward journey) or actually touched off (return journey).

    Damned if I know! Don't care much either as I 'didn't get caught'!
      Lad_Porter Chief Commissioner

    Location: Yarra Glen
    It seems you can be travelling with a touched-off card, even when you thought it was touched-on.  Interesting to know how an AO would react.

    I had a similar experience on a trip from Stony Point to Lilydale.  At Stony Point I touched on successfully.  But on arrival at Lilydale, the reader said "touch on successful", which I did not understand.  The next time I used a train, several days later and at a different station, the reader said "touch off successful".  Didn't like that, so touched again, and this time it said "touch on successful".  Later, I looked at the transactions online, and it turned out that my touch on at Stony Point had somehow timed out before I reached Lilydale, which is why the reader there said "touch on".  Unknown to me, my card was then touched on until the next time, which is why it then said "touch off".  Although it had been touched on for several days, there was no automatic time out this time, and I was charged a default fare even though I had not travelled anywhere in the meantime.
      Lad_Porter Chief Commissioner

    Location: Yarra Glen
    If you are boarding at Lilydale, buy a V/Line paper ticket there. It will cover your journey to Maryborough. AOs and Metro station staff will just wave you on if you flash it at them, they don't care.

    Maryborough, Ararat and Echuca all remain on paper tickets, probably because of their limited number of services.
    TOQ-1
    Thanks for that.  Seems to me that I have three options:

    • V/Line paper ticket from Lilydale.
    • Myki to SCS, then a V/Line paper ticket SCS to Maryborough,
    • Myki to Ballarat, then a V/Line paper ticket Ballarat to Maryborough.

    Leaving convenience aside, which would work out cheaper?
      The Vinelander Minister for Railways

    Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
    Caught a train from the Craigieburn line to Belgrave the other day:

    Forward journey
    Touched on at start of journey - OK I thought until -
    Touched off at Belgrave - machine said I was touching on - oh well got here unscathed so who cares - stoopid machine!

    Return journey
    Touched on at Belgrave - machine said I was touching off - oh well not my fault - what am I supposed to do?
    Touched off at destination - machine said something incomprehensible and unreadable through the scratches on the screen.

    Damned if I know! Don't care much either as I 'didn't get caught'!
    YM-Mundrabilla

    You probably exceeded the TWO hour limit of a one way METRO journey. It would have cost no more to touch off at Flinders Street or wherever you changed trains and touched on again. Your fare would have remained the same and the Myki readers wouldn't have gone haywire.

    Mike.

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