New High Capacity Vline trains discussion

 
  True Believers Chief Commissioner

Will be about 5-10 years for new high capacity type of train to enter service to the vline network. As noted in the Regional network development plan, these trains would be introduced to help increase services and able to replace the classic fleet. Anybody have any suggestions what be included as part of the train (eg wifi, double decker, dual gauge capabilities, etc) Also any name suggestions what the train should be called.

Note: Thanks Dendrite. Yes, I did get mixed up with what it said on the Regional network plan and totally thought that the new rolling stock strategy on the north east corridor would be replace the older rolling stock with new High capacity trains. But there's no evidence suggesting it so I edited it out)

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  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat Line
Will be about 5-10 years for new high capacity type of train to enter service to the vline network. As noted in the Regional network development plan, they will be capable of dual gouge so they can run on the North east line. Anybody have any suggestions what be included as part of the train (eg wifi, double decker, )and what speed they should run? Also name suggestion what the train should be called.
James974

Interesting the comments about the dual gouge (gauge) capability.

Does the Albury line require 'high-capacity' trains for an InterCity service of several hours Question

Perhaps there are distant plans to operate services from Wangaratta or Benalla to Melbourne in addition to Albury/Wagga Wagga as the population along the north east grows with ever more tree-changers.

Interesting times ahead...

Mike.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Are these high capacity services to replace the vlocity sets?
  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: Gheringhap Loop Autonomous Zone
Will be about 5-10 years for new high capacity type of train to enter service to the vline network. As noted in the Regional network development plan, they will be capable of dual gouge so they can run on the North east line.
James974
You seem to be confused. The Regional Network Development Plan makes reference on page 47 to:

  • planning for a new rolling stock solution for the [North East] corridor
Regional Network Development Plan

If this 'rolling stock solution' was confirmed as the 'Next Generation Regional Rolling Stock', the document would've referred to it by name. As it were, the RNDP does make a separate reference to a 'Next Generation Regional Rolling Stock' (pages 11 & 25). This seems similar to the 'Next Generation Regional Train' defined in the 2015 Victorian Rolling Stock Strategy (page 22) as:

NEXT GENERATION REGIONAL TRAINS
A next generation high capacity regional train will be commissioned in the coming years to cater for strong patronage growth and provide new peak services. Work is now underway to determine the exact specifications of these new trains.
Victorian Rolling Stock Strategy

Going back to the North East line replacement trains: there is no public reference to dual gauge capability. It does seem likely however that the NSW State Government's planned XPT/Xplorer replacement will be of a very similar specification to what PTV envisions that it requires for Albury services, so if they do in fact piggyback onto TfNSW's order then it might even be a standard gauge only train.

As to @bevans' question:

Are these high capacity services to replace the Vlocity sets?
bevans
No, they are not. There is a planned refurbishment of the Vlocity/VL sets within the next 5-10 years outlined in the RNDP (page 25). All signs point to NGRRS/NGRT being a complementary addition to the fleet.
  True Believers Chief Commissioner

Will be about 5-10 years for new high capacity type of train to enter service to the vline network. As noted in the Regional network development plan, they will be capable of dual gouge so they can run on the North east line.
You seem to be confused. The Regional Network Development Plan makes reference on page 47 to:

  • planning for a new rolling stock solution for the [North East] corridor

If this 'rolling stock solution' was confirmed as the 'Next Generation Regional Rolling Stock', the document would've referred to it by name. As it were, the RNDP does make a separate reference to a 'Next Generation Regional Rolling Stock' (pages 11 & 25). This seems similar to the 'Next Generation Regional Train' defined in the 2015 Victorian Rolling Stock Strategy (page 22) as:

NEXT GENERATION REGIONAL TRAINS
A next generation high capacity regional train will be commissioned in the coming years to cater for strong patronage growth and provide new peak services. Work is now underway to determine the exact specifications of these new trains.
LancedDendrite
Thanks for the correction, yeah mixed up the references and thought they were linked together with no evidence suggesting it. Well seems like the rolling stock strategy is referring to the same trains in the Regional network plan, nice to have plans to interconnect. Would be interesting to see the Vic Government work together with the NSW Government to provide new set of trains for Albury services.
  TOQ-1 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Power Trainger
The majority of the question depends on what V/Line is trying to achieve. Are they replacing the H sets on Suburban routes and short hauls which would be suited to having a High Capacity layout, or are they replacing the N sets which are for long hauls? Will they try and compromise to replace both which can only end badly?

Wifi - Wifi should be provided, but it should not be free. Telecommunications companies can provide access through their networks (similar to how Telstra Air works from payphones, you can connect, but only if you have an existing Telstra account that you pay for the service with).

Double Decker - Might be nice to consider, but probably not likely.

Layout - If replacing the H sets for suburban and short hauls, 2 double doors per side as per H sets or Siemens, seating arranged as in a Vlocity now, but with more space around doorways. If they are only running on short routes, there is less need to have onboard toilets and you could probably go down to 1 per 3 carriages.

- If replacing the N Sets, keeping a similar layout would be good. Doors seals would be better than those on the N sets, so having an airlock at the end isn't as needed. The ability to walk through carriages would be more important. Not entirely sold on the need for a food kiosk on board. Possibly you could have someone with a trolley get on part way through the journey, do a lap of the train and park it until they get to Southern Cross or a station such as Bendigo.

Trying to replace both with the one carriage design - a bloody nightmare.
  Bogong Chief Commissioner

Location: Essendon Aerodrome circa 1980
So you're inferring that we should have three different designs of passenger trains for short, medium and long distance trains?

That makes sense. We already have the Velocities for mid distance trains, but it would be bonkers to try and use the same carriage design for both short distance commuter trains and long distance trains with multi hour journeys, the requirements for them are quite different.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat Line
So you're inferring that we should have three different designs of passenger trains for short, medium and long distance trains?

That makes sense. We already have the Velocities for mid distance trains, but it would be bonkers to try and use the same carriage design for both short distance commuter trains and long distance trains with multi hour journeys, the requirements for them are quite different.
Bogong

Nar....

A VLocity works perfectly well for the 2.5 hour journey to Echuca.

Victoria's longest distance train is only 4 hours and that's at 100 to 115KPH. A VLocity would cut at least 30 mins off a long distance timetable, provided it can travel at 160KPH.

Perhaps the addition of First Class and a refreshment module where the bike storage is now would assist in longer distance journeys.

Mildura is still way over the horizon at a potential 5 hour journey.

Mike.
  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: Gheringhap Loop Autonomous Zone
The majority of the question depends on what V/Line is trying to achieve. Are they replacing the H sets on Suburban routes and short hauls which would be suited to having a High Capacity layout, or are they replacing the N sets which are for long hauls? Will they try and compromise to replace both which can only end badly?
TOQ-1

NGRT/NGRRS seems to be geared towards short-haul services in order to deal with the growth in patronage on Geelong and Ballarat/Bacchus Marsh services. That would free up VLs to resume their original intended role as 'medium distance' trains and allow for the retirement of the H sets (and perhaps some tired A & P class locos).

Wifi - Wifi should be provided, but it should not be free. Telecommunications companies can provide access through their networks (similar to how Telstra Air works from payphones, you can connect, but only if you have an existing Telstra account that you pay for the service with).
TOQ-1

I will continue to argue that on-train wifi is unnecessary compared to providing 240V GPOs or even just USB power outlets. Mobile coverage on Victorian rail corridors is pretty reasonable already.

Not entirely sold on the need for a food kiosk on board. Possibly you could have someone with a trolley get on part way through the journey, do a lap of the train and park it until they get to Southern Cross or a station such as Bendigo.
TOQ-1

The Kiosk seems fine for longer distance services, it may as well be retained. Putting a food trolley service on a train running on V/Line's track is an invitation to disaster and embarrassment.

Trying to replace both with the one carriage design - a bloody nightmare.
TOQ-1

Easy enough if you use seating rails.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat Line

The Kiosk seems fine for longer distance services, it may as well be retained. Putting a food trolley service on a train running on V/Line's track is an invitation to disaster and embarrassment.

Trying to replace both with the one carriage design - a bloody nightmare.

Easy enough if you use seating rails.
LancedDendrite

Maybe you haven't travelled on the lurching XPT through NSW where there is no straight track for any consequence north of Wagga Wagga.

The lurching cars are a disincentive to even going to the toilet for people who are not steady on their feet.

Train staff announce that if pax would like a drink, food etc. that the staff who frequently walk through the train are happy to take orders and return same to the seated pax. Before this convenience by the train staff was implemented and I have no idea if it's Countrylink policy or not, but I've seen pax literally fall onto other pax whilst walking through the open carriages and in one instance an elderly pax fell on to a tray table and demolished it.

All due to the swaying and lurching train.

Victoria doesn't have the monopoly on less than mirror smooth tracks.

Mike.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction

The Kiosk seems fine for longer distance services, it may as well be retained. Putting a food trolley service on a train running on V/Line's track is an invitation to disaster and embarrassment.
Train staff announce that if pax would like a drink, food etc. that the staff who frequently walk through the train are happy to take orders and return same to the seated pax. Before this convenience by the train staff was implemented and I have no idea if it's Countrylink policy or not, but I've seen pax literally fall onto other pax whilst walking through the open carriages and in one instance an elderly pax fell on to a tray table and demolished it.

Mike.
The Vinelander
On longer distance services in Italy they have a food trolley similar to the ones on an airliner. Works really well and as it is Italy the food is half decent and the water is dirt cheap! (never understood why we pay so much for bottled water here compared to Europe)

This service could be used on Vline services and even contracted out to the private sector like the snack vending machines at Southern Cross are. Would make more money than a kiosk because you are putting the merchandise in front of the customer instead of asking them to come to you. As to how much it would cost I have no idea.

BG
  TOQ-1 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Power Trainger
Wifi - Wifi should be provided, but it should not be free. Telecommunications companies can provide access through their networks (similar to how Telstra Air works from payphones, you can connect, but only if you have an existing Telstra account that you pay for the service with).

I will continue to argue that on-train wifi is unnecessary compared to providing 240V GPOs or even just USB power outlets. Mobile coverage on Victorian rail corridors is pretty reasonable already.
LancedDendrite

It is in some sections, but in others it is not. If there is aluminum film over the windows like the vlocities and the train ends up a Faraday cage again, it's useless.

What I am suggesting is that the hardware is installed and maintained by telecommunications companies (or at least paid for by those companies). No cost to V/Line, who can spend money on things that are worthwhile.

I forgot to mention power sockets, those are definitely needed, whether that is just USB outlets or for a full plug.

Better onboard PIDS would be nice too. Even the dot matrix ones in Japan tell you what the weather at your destination is going to be.
  wongm GEEWONG

Location: Geelong, Victoria
Some photoshoped possibilities...

Triple 3-car VLocity units

http://railgallery.wongm.com/photoshop/triple-3-car-vlocity-units.jpg.html


4-car VLocity unit

http://railgallery.wongm.com/photoshop/four-car-vlocity-unit.jpg.html




Hypothetical VLocity-derived high capacity regional train. Double doors at each end of the carriage, plus a dedicated crew door to each cab.

http://railgallery.wongm.com/photoshop/hypothetical-vlocity-derived-high-capacity-regional-train.jpg.html
  cabidass Chief Train Controller

Yeah my bets are on the middle pic. - 4 carriages for long haul, which will include a buffet. Extra fuel, and a revised interior.
Dunno how they'll deal with luggage, unless there is just more room for luggage within each carriage, and no checked baggage.

Failing that, either the east end or west end would need to be revised to include a checked baggage cab.

Don't think there will be an extra loo, but there might be.

Wider doors are definitely a consideration to improve wheelchair access.


With regards to High Capacity, I'm thinking longer carriages, and bigger doors. Maybe a set of doors in the middle.
But don't know how practical that is in reality.

It might just be extra carriages with reserve motors beneath. I know other's have done the engine to weight sums on this in other threads...
  stooge spark Chief Train Controller

Location: My House
For long hauls, I reckon 5 car is the best way to go, if they want to leave the train a format as similar as possible.
  woodford Chief Commissioner

So you're inferring that we should have three different designs of passenger trains for short, medium and long distance trains?

That makes sense. We already have the Velocities for mid distance trains, but it would be bonkers to try and use the same carriage design for both short distance commuter trains and long distance trains with multi hour journeys, the requirements for them are quite different.

Nar....

A VLocity works perfectly well for the 2.5 hour journey to Echuca.

Victoria's longest distance train is only 4 hours and that's at 100 to 115KPH. A VLocity would cut at least 30 mins off a long distance timetable, provided it can travel at 160KPH.

Perhaps the addition of First Class and a refreshment module where the bike storage is now would assist in longer distance journeys.

Mildura is still way over the horizon at a potential 5 hour journey.

Mike.
The Vinelander
Sorry to but in Sad, but.........
In a 4 hour journey 160kph running would not be required to save 30 minutes, A VLocity running at 130kph would easily handle that. The problem being is a N class and N set only have a power to weigh ratio of 5bhp/ton, they are terribly underpowered for a modern pass, where as the VLocity's have a power to weight ratio of nearly 11bhp/ton. This means they can make up massive amounts of time by far quicker accelartion and much better hill climbing ability.

woodford
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

For long hauls, I reckon 5 car is the best way to go, if they want to leave the train a format as similar as possible.
stooge spark
By the public announcements so far and funding we appear to be looking in the first instance to introduce a new generation  Inter City train in the form of a fixed consist Inter City type V/Locity train of 5 cars .  This proven train type would incorporate  more spacious seating, on train catering to the seat ideally,  provision for luggage and cycles.  As such around 15- 16 sets would be required over both gauges to run all  Warrnambool, Swan Hill, Albury and Bairnsdale services at the proposed 4 - 5 return trips per Weekday .

As such these trains would operate at up 160kmh to Geelong, Bendigo, and Traralgon; and at 130kmh beyond those centres.
On Albury satisfactory track funded now by Feds to ARTC to upgrade and fix especially West Line ; then potentially 140 kmh .

As far as preparing for V/Locity operation beyond the Commuter area, funded so far are track upgrade and full lx protection for  Waurn Ponds - Warrnambool and  Seymour - Wodonga .  Warrnambool also includes a second remote controlled loop at  Boorcan and  remote signalling beyond Waurn Ponds to replace Train Orders .

So far not funded  :  The actual new Inter City  V/Locity train sets  , track and lx protection upgrades  Eaglehawk - Swan Hill, and  Traralgon -  Bairnsdale (but replacement of Avon River bridge at Stratford is funded).

Any new Inter City V/Locity train type could incorporate new 900hp traction engines now available, and ideally dual  diesel hydraulic /  electric from overhead traction ;  as potentially  Swan Hill and  Albury services could in future be running partly underground via Airport, Clarkefield (for Swan Hill) and Wallan (for  Albury.)
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
For long hauls, I reckon 5 car is the best way to go, if they want to leave the train a format as similar as possible.
By the public announcements so far and funding we appear to be looking in the first instance to introduce a new generation  Inter City train in the form of a fixed consist Inter City type V/Locity train of 5 cars .  This proven train type would incorporate  more spacious seating, on train catering to the seat ideally,  provision for luggage and cycles.  As such around 15- 16 sets would be required over both gauges to run all  Warrnambool, Swan Hill, Albury and Bairnsdale services at the proposed 4 - 5 return trips per Weekday .

As such these trains would operate at up 160kmh to Geelong, Bendigo, and Traralgon; and at 130kmh beyond those centres.
On Albury satisfactory track funded now by Feds to ARTC to upgrade and fix especially West Line ; then potentially 140 kmh .

As far as preparing for V/Locity operation beyond the Commuter area, funded so far are track upgrade and full lx protection for  Waurn Ponds - Warrnambool and  Seymour - Wodonga .  Warrnambool also includes a second remote controlled loop at  Boorcan and  remote signalling beyond Waurn Ponds to replace Train Orders .

So far not funded  :  The actual new Inter City  V/Locity train sets  , track and lx protection upgrades  Eaglehawk - Swan Hill, and  Traralgon -  Bairnsdale (but replacement of Avon River bridge at Stratford is funded).

Any new Inter City V/Locity train type could incorporate new 900hp traction engines now available, and ideally dual  diesel hydraulic /  electric from overhead traction ;  as potentially  Swan Hill and  Albury services could in future be running partly underground via Airport, Clarkefield (for Swan Hill) and Wallan (for  Albury.)
kuldalai
What about Shepparton?
  cabidass Chief Train Controller

Wasn't there funding for the long haul Vlos?

As I understood it, the money stumped up was to order long haul Vlocities. And to investigate the next range of 'high capacity' Vlos for the not so long haul routes. ie. Traralgon as compared to Bairnsdale.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

For long hauls, I reckon 5 car is the best way to go, if they want to leave the train a format as similar as possible.
By the public announcements so far and funding we appear to be looking in the first instance to introduce a new generation  Inter City train in the form of a fixed consist Inter City type V/Locity train of 5 cars .  This proven train type would incorporate  more spacious seating, on train catering to the seat ideally,  provision for luggage and cycles.  As such around 15- 16 sets would be required over both gauges to run all  Warrnambool, Swan Hill, Albury and Bairnsdale services at the proposed 4 - 5 return trips per Weekday .

As such these trains would operate at up 160kmh to Geelong, Bendigo, and Traralgon; and at 130kmh beyond those centres.
On Albury satisfactory track funded now by Feds to ARTC to upgrade and fix especially West Line ; then potentially 140 kmh .

As far as preparing for V/Locity operation beyond the Commuter area, funded so far are track upgrade and full lx protection for  Waurn Ponds - Warrnambool and  Seymour - Wodonga .  Warrnambool also includes a second remote controlled loop at  Boorcan and  remote signalling beyond Waurn Ponds to replace Train Orders .

So far not funded  :  The actual new Inter City  V/Locity train sets  , track and lx protection upgrades  Eaglehawk - Swan Hill, and  Traralgon -  Bairnsdale (but replacement of Avon River bridge at Stratford is funded).

Any new Inter City V/Locity train type could incorporate new 900hp traction engines now available, and ideally dual  diesel hydraulic /  electric from overhead traction ;  as potentially  Swan Hill and  Albury services could in future be running partly underground via Airport, Clarkefield (for Swan Hill) and Wallan (for  Albury.)
What about Shepparton?
james.au
Shepparton would be run with the current  Inter urban type V/locity trains after line upgrade to allow 130kmh operation and fully protected level crossings between Seymour & Mooroopna. Travel time to melbourne would come down to around 2 hours, and with a loop around Tahbilk a two hourly Shepparton Off Peak frequency could be operated justifiably, as Sheep is the poor cousin currently .  With Melton and potentially Wyndam Vale electrified there will be avaialble V/locity sets by cascade to run Shepparton as it would only take 3 - 4 x 3 car sets to run a 2 hour Off Peak frequency .
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

Wasn't there funding for the long haul Vlos?

As I understood it, the money stumped up was to order long haul Vlocities. And to investigate the next range of 'high capacity' Vlos for the not so long haul routes. ie. Traralgon as compared to Bairnsdale.
cabidass
NO.

1. Money in recent State Budget for extra V/Locity cars is for 39 additional cars of the current type to provide additional capacity on existing Peak services, and hopefully to replace the remaining loco ahuled N sets on the Geelong line which stuff up the whole operation and in their removal create extra paths on RRL .

2. The money in Regional Project is to prepare the Warrnambool and Albury lines for the operation of a new generation Inter City V/Locity train type at 130 kmh + on  fully protected Class  2  track . Probably some $ there to develop V/locity Inter City spec ready to go to tender .

With Melton &  Wyndham Vale electrified (as they have to be by early 2020,s as DMU,s will not be able to handle peak traffic task) then with  a total  264  V/locity cars avaialble there will be more than enough VL trains to run Geelong,  Ballarat, Bendigo, Shepparton and Traralgon .  (So no need for yet another DMU train type.)
  Rossco T Chief Train Controller

Location: Camberwell, Victoria
With Melton &  Wyndham Vale electrified (as they have to be by early 2020,s as DMU,s will not be able to handle peak traffic task) then with  a total  264  V/locity cars avaialble there will be more than enough VL trains to run Geelong,  Ballarat, Bendigo, Shepparton and Traralgon .  (So no need for yet another DMU train type.)
kuldalai

Can Melton and Wyndham Vale electrification happen prior to the opening of the Metro Rail Tunnel in 2026 or would it be more likely that the two electrifications would coincide?  Also are you suggesting that Wyndham Vale electrification would occur via Werribee or via Deer Park?

Ross
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

With Melton &  Wyndham Vale electrified (as they have to be by early 2020,s as DMU,s will not be able to handle peak traffic task) then with  a total  264  V/locity cars avaialble there will be more than enough VL trains to run Geelong,  Ballarat, Bendigo, Shepparton and Traralgon .  (So no need for yet another DMU train type.)

Can Melton and Wyndham Vale electrification happen prior to the opening of the Metro Rail Tunnel in 2026 or would it be more likely that the two electrifications would coincide?  Also are you suggesting that Wyndham Vale electrification would occur via Werribee or via Deer Park?

Ross
Rossco T
1.  BOTH  Melton & Wyndham Vale need to be electrified by the early 2020's as VLP and  DMU trains will NOT be able to handle the projected traffic task on both lines, based on current growth , additional stations and our developer friends carving up blocks at an alarming and accelerating rate .

2. Melton electrification will be through routed via Metro tunnel so Melton electrification needs to open in parallel with Metro tunnel , at earliest 2024 - 2026 .  Melton electrification useless before then as no spare peaks paths on RRL to add extra trains, and no junctions at Down end Sunshine to use spare paths on main Suburban lines. And no capacity to get melton sparks through 3/4 at Sunshine as RRL at capacity .

3. Wyndham Vale electrification from 15/16 at Southern Cross via RRL is not dpendent on Metro tunnel and needs to happen by early 2020,s , with all Geelong loco hauleds gone create 2 extra peak paths , as VLP will no be able to handle with DMU .

4.  A second stage of RRL Wyndham Vale electrification would be extension of the existing Werribee line to Wyndham Vale with a new station and junction at Black Forest Road.  There would be Metro stabling at the Up end of Wyndham Vale .
A CrossCity group could then operate  Sandringham -  Flinders St - Southern Cross (13/14)  - Werribee - Wyndham Vale, Sunshine - Southern Cross (15/16) and Vice Versa  with the stabling and servicing base being at the Up end of Wyndham Vale .
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
With Melton &  Wyndham Vale electrified (as they have to be by early 2020,s as DMU,s will not be able to handle peak traffic task) then with  a total  264  V/locity cars avaialble there will be more than enough VL trains to run Geelong,  Ballarat, Bendigo, Shepparton and Traralgon .  (So no need for yet another DMU train type.)

Can Melton and Wyndham Vale electrification happen prior to the opening of the Metro Rail Tunnel in 2026 or would it be more likely that the two electrifications would coincide?  Also are you suggesting that Wyndham Vale electrification would occur via Werribee or via Deer Park?

Ross
1.  BOTH  Melton & Wyndham Vale need to be electrified by the early 2020's as VLP and  DMU trains will NOT be able to handle the projected traffic task on both lines, based on current growth , additional stations and our developer friends carving up blocks at an alarming and accelerating rate .

2. Melton electrification will be through routed via Metro tunnel so Melton electrification needs to open in parallel with Metro tunnel , at earliest 2024 - 2026 .  Melton electrification useless before then as no spare peaks paths on RRL to add extra trains, and no junctions at Down end Sunshine to use spare paths on main Suburban lines. And no capacity to get melton sparks through 3/4 at Sunshine as RRL at capacity .

3. Wyndham Vale electrification from 15/16 at Southern Cross via RRL is not dpendent on Metro tunnel and needs to happen by early 2020,s , with all Geelong loco hauleds gone create 2 extra peak paths , as VLP will no be able to handle with DMU .

4.  A second stage of RRL Wyndham Vale electrification would be extension of the existing Werribee line to Wyndham Vale with a new station and junction at Black Forest Road.  There would be Metro stabling at the Up end of Wyndham Vale .
A CrossCity group could then operate  Sandringham -  Flinders St - Southern Cross (13/14)  - Werribee - Wyndham Vale, Sunshine - Southern Cross (15/16) and Vice Versa  with the stabling and servicing base being at the Up end of Wyndham Vale .
kuldalai
Personally I think it would be wise to look at double-deckers for the RRL lines. Preferrably EMUs to reduce operating costs and increase acceleration however even a double-deck DMU would provide more space to cater for the patronage growth.
  cabidass Chief Train Controller

NO.

1. Money in recent State Budget for extra V/Locity cars is for 39 additional cars of the current type to provide additional capacity on existing Peak services, and hopefully to replace the remaining loco ahuled N sets on the Geelong line which stuff up the whole operation and in their removal create extra paths on RRL .
kuldalai
YES.

It helps if you read the press releases.

"To give regional Victoria the best trains, the Budget provides $311.1 million for 39 new VLocity carriages, building on the 48 we’ve already funded – all of them built in Victoria. This investment will also fund a major re-design of VLocity trains, to enable them to run on long-haul services, including on the North East Line."

http://www.premier.vic.gov.au/labor-governments-regional-rail-revival-continues/

(My bold and underline)

It is my understanding that the Vlocities will run alongside the N's to Bairnsdale to deliver more services. At least, initially (see below). I don't know enough about rollingstock allocations and needs from the new set of 39 carriages (of which we are not yet clear of the break down between engines, actual carriages and long haul types). Ergo it is my presumption, that at some stage the N's will be retired. However I presume this to be on a train by train basis as new stock arrives. But not before new services are delivered in full.

"The Budget includes $12.5 million to refurbish V/Line’s classic train fleet, to ensure they remain safe, reliable and comfortable for passengers." (ibid)

You don't refurbish something you're about to replace. And they can only be replaced with Long Haul Vlocities. I have letters from the minister stating just that.

As I read it, either some or all of the mentioned "39 carriages" will be reconfigured to enable long haul services. So this may include better and/or reconfigured seating, higher fuel capacity, and buffet services of some kind. Hopefully improved sun shading.

I have done the sums and cross checked the other press releases, and the $311.1 for rolling stock is not included in the ~$1.6 billion allocated. (Feds contribued 1.42b. And Andrews 150m)

Ergo either:
a) New Vlocities aren't funded.
b) The money is mixed in with other allocations for each line.
c) It's from other parts of the state budget.



http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/victoria-regional-rail-to-get-16b-injection/news-story/4d1f74b85c19c8ca3c4222a7daac6556
http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2017/06/27/vics-14b-win-federal-rail-cash
http://economicdevelopment.vic.gov.au/transport/rail-and-roads/public-transport/regional-rail-revival

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