State Govt's Regional Rail Revival

 
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia

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  cabidass Chief Train Controller

You'll need an external host. A link to a Dropbox file can work too (see here).
LancedDendrite
Thanks.
Yeah happy with using dropbox, but when I've tried to link before it hasn't seemed to work. I see some nice embedding done here by other users, but have never been able to do it myself.

If there is a Railpage wiki that explains how best to do it somewhere, share the link and I'll check it out.

TIA.
  cabidass Chief Train Controller

Ok, So I went down under and took a look at the Lloyd St roundabout bridge in Moe.

I can confirm the new section of the bridge (the east side) is wide enough for dual rail lines. However, the older western side is quite narrow. While it was likely to originally have two lines, as it stands, the edge of the concrete sleepers for the existing broadgauge line are 5 foot from the nearest concrete (bridge supporting) pillar. And this leaves not enough room for another line beside it.

I couldn't say if it was feasible to nudge the existing line back over, and squeeze a new line in. As new regs might require more room.

If there is anyone who knows the technical specifics of what's required these days, let me know and I might even duck down there with a measure...

But the suggestion from my contacts was that for duplication, the bridge would have to be replaced. And on a glance, this appears to be the case.

Drop box images below.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/y2e00oplfr3gn1j/WP_20170830_14_24_46_Pro.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/bwoqehsirpsp0fv/WP_20170830_14_25_30_Pro.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/l54hoc6l8yx5y7k/WP_20170830_14_26_57_Pro.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/28207m21alhp0cw/WP_20170830_14_27_26_Pro.jpg?dl=0
And this one for the lecky enthusiasts..
https://www.dropbox.com/s/dracjd2jxrkdh0n/WP_20170830_14_26_41_Pro.jpg?dl=0









  True Believers Chief Commissioner

So are the new duplicated tracks running at 130km/hr or the 160km/hr?
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
So are the new duplicated tracks running at 130km/hr or the 160km/hr?
James974
My guess the new track will be fully built to class 1 standards, though It will be up to the signaling to If 160 km/h running Is permitted along It.

Note the the South line between Longwarry and Warragul Is only class 2 (the same as the North line) the curvy section frequently throes up a 100 km/h curve speed.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

Comments on the NE work...........

Both Donnybrook and Wallan had the Down (north bound) platforms lenghtend to take 6 car Vlocities as well as increased car parking a couple of years ago. Both still have short Up platforms, both car parks are usually full to overflowing.

What is needed at Albury is a decent secure storage area, currently the Dock platform is used, This will only take a single set and is SERIOUSLY insecure as the train is directly accessable, the platform having No gates to keep anyone out and the platform is CLEARLY visible from the Hume freeway Bypass and such visibilty is a WELL KNOWN security issue.

woodford
woodford

This may be possible because as part of NSW's new regional fleet there is likely to be enough new rolling stock to provide some Albury to Sydney services in addition to the Melbourne services. This would require some storage and so maybe the 2 state governments need to come together on this issue.
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
Regarding the Bendigo line, If one section is to be duplicated, wouldn't the best option be Castlemaine to Ravenswood? This section is a bit over 10km (so shorter than Kyneton to Taradale), there are no tunnels, and fewer historical bridges to be concerned with than the Taradale option. Most importantly, it would provide roughly 24km of double track, over the longest section of line with Castlemaine the only active station. Trains could easily pass eachother without the need to slow down, even if running a few minutes behind schedule.

Extending the limit of double track from Kyneton to Elphinstone only pushes the issue further down the line, duplicating the largest section  in the centre of the single track should provide the most benefit.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

Regarding the Bendigo line, If one section is to be duplicated, wouldn't the best option be Castlemaine to Ravenswood? This section is a bit over 10km (so shorter than Kyneton to Taradale), there are no tunnels, and fewer historical bridges to be concerned with than the Taradale option. Most importantly, it would provide roughly 24km of double track, over the longest section of line with Castlemaine the only active station. Trains could easily pass eachother without the need to slow down, even if running a few minutes behind schedule.

Extending the limit of double track from Kyneton to Elphinstone only pushes the issue further down the line, duplicating the largest section  in the centre of the single track should provide the most benefit.
Gman_86
Apparently with the short term expectation of 20 minute peak and 40 minute Off Peak frequencies, coupled with alternate trains Off Peak to/from Eaglehawk & Epsom the simulations say unequivocally that in order what is needed is 1. Extension of duplication from Down end of Kyneton to Up end Taradale Loop   and  2.  extension of the existing short Castlemaine Loop in a Down direction to Harcourt .  

No tunnels involved .  Restoration of second track relatively simple, may involve some reductions in curve speeds and 130 kmh under bluestone bridges, but minimal impact on train running times.
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
Fair enough.

Meanwhile, PTV have released this information on the upgrades to stations on the Ballarat line:
http://ballaratlineupgrade.vic.gov.au/home/station-upgrades

Rockbank will be completly demolished with an all new station to be built in its place. The Southern carpark (gravel) will be abolished, replaced with a new sealed carpark including busbays (I assume the 456 will now call at Rockbank Station, as yet unconfirmed) on the northern side

Bacchus Marsh will get a new carpark in place of the current sidings, as well as a new larger bus interchange. The turntable will be retained which is a plus.

Ballan will get an additional carpark on the southern side.

All 3 stations will have 2 side platforms, connected by a pedestrian footbridge, accessed by stairs and a DDA compliant ramp.

All up sounds pretty good.
  True Believers Chief Commissioner

Meanwhile on the Department webpage there is a new subsection for the planning of upgrading and duplicating to Waurn Ponds

http://economicdevelopment.vic.gov.au/transport/rail-and-roads/public-transport/geelong-to-waurn-ponds-railway-planning-project
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Meanwhile on the Department webpage there is a new subsection for the planning of upgrading and duplicating to Waurn Ponds

http://economicdevelopment.vic.gov.au/transport/rail-and-roads/public-transport/geelong-to-waurn-ponds-railway-planning-project
James974

Any idea what platform changes will be required at the intermediate and terminating stations?
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
Meanwhile on the Department webpage there is a new subsection for the planning of upgrading and duplicating to Waurn Ponds

http://economicdevelopment.vic.gov.au/transport/rail-and-roads/public-transport/geelong-to-waurn-ponds-railway-planning-project

Any idea what platform changes will be required at the intermediate and terminating stations?
bevans
A second platform would need to be built at South Geelong and Marshall and, maybe, at Waurn Ponds.
  True Believers Chief Commissioner

Another news the campaign #59minuteballarat is pushing forward for Ballarat Upgrade stage 3 to be included as part of the Regional Revival plan which is to duplicate the remainder sections of the Ballarat line after stages 1/2 are completed.
  woodford Chief Commissioner

Cabidass said.............

"I couldn't say if it was feasible to nudge the existing line back over, and squeeze a new line in. As new regs might require more room.

If there is anyone who knows the technical specifics of what's required these days, let me know and I might even duck down there with a measure..."


The centre to centre of broad gauge tracks in Victoria is 12 ft. ON the NE line north of seymour, the distance prior to the regauging was exactly 12 ft, it is now around 12 ft 3 inchs since the West lines rail was moved in 6 1/2 inchs.
On some new SG work the centre to centre distance is 16ft, this the US rail standard.

woodford
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat Line
Another news the campaign #59minuteballarat is pushing forward for Ballarat Upgrade stage 3 to be included as part of the Regional Revival plan which is to duplicate the remainder sections of the Ballarat line after stages 1/2 are completed.
James974

This is extremely unlikely to happen any time soon.

Imagine, a second very high bridge on the horseshoe curve, the cutting into the escarpment and the widening of the cutting on the ascent to Bank Box loop and last but by no means least...another multi-million dollar bridge over Iron Bark Gully on Ingliston Road.

Yeah...nar.

Further latest news regards Ballan...it would appear that:

  • The proposed Ballan Crossing loop will start on the eastern side of Ballan around Ingliston Road and extend 2 Km past the Geelong-Daylesford Road level crossing.
  • Platforms to be lengthened on the whole line to take 9 car VLocity's.
  • Pedestrian over-bridge at Ballan station, complete with lifts and disability access ramps, but far enough on the UP side of the station building not to detract too much from the historic precinct.
  • First to last train staffing of Ballan station due to the electrics associated with the new fangled pedestrian over-bridge.


Mike.
  x31 Chief Commissioner

Location: gallifrey
Here we go again making the least complex complex.
  True Believers Chief Commissioner

VineLander, there is always been stations rebuilt for 9 cars Velocitys (e.g. Footscray, Sunshine), when do you reckon they will actually put this configuration into service?
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat Line
VineLander, there is always been stations rebuilt for 9 cars Velocitys (e.g. Footscray, Sunshine), when do you reckon they will actually put this configuration into service?
James974

I don't think there are any 9 car length platforms west of Sunshine on the Ballarat line...except for Ballarat station.

With the frequency of services as there currently are, it's unlikely there'll be a need for 9 car VLocity's in the peaks for another 3 or 4 years, but it's important to 'future-proof' the line whilst it's being upgraded.

Mike.
  skitz Chief Commissioner

VineLander, there is always been stations rebuilt for 9 cars Velocitys (e.g. Footscray, Sunshine), when do you reckon they will actually put this configuration into service?

I don't think there are any 9 car length platforms west of Sunshine on the Ballarat line...except for Ballarat station.

With the frequency of services as there currently are, it's unlikely there'll be a need for 9 car VLocity's in the peaks for another 3 or 4 years, but it's important to 'future-proof' the line whilst it's being upgraded.

Mike.
The Vinelander
What was the outcome regarding the eight vehicle limit of Vlocity type configuration?
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat Line
VineLander, there is always been stations rebuilt for 9 cars Velocitys (e.g. Footscray, Sunshine), when do you reckon they will actually put this configuration into service?

I don't think there are any 9 car length platforms west of Sunshine on the Ballarat line...except for Ballarat station.

With the frequency of services as there currently are, it's unlikely there'll be a need for 9 car VLocity's in the peaks for another 3 or 4 years, but it's important to 'future-proof' the line whilst it's being upgraded.

Mike.
What was the outcome regarding the eight vehicle limit of Vlocity type configuration?
skitz

No idea...I got my information regards the line upgrade from my local MP.

M.
  cabidass Chief Train Controller

The centre to centre of broad gauge tracks in Victoria is 12 ft. ON the NE line north of seymour, the distance prior to the regauging was exactly 12 ft, it is now around 12 ft 3 inchs since the West lines rail was moved in 6 1/2 inchs.
On some new SG work the centre to centre distance is 16ft, this the US rail standard.

woodford
woodford
I wouldn't think 3 inches would be enough to break it. Would only be 100mm.

Maybe it only every had one line under there (Lloyd/Narracan drive bridge) at Moe. Anyone know?
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

VineLander, there is always been stations rebuilt for 9 cars Velocitys (e.g. Footscray, Sunshine), when do you reckon they will actually put this configuration into service?

I don't think there are any 9 car length platforms west of Sunshine on the Ballarat line...except for Ballarat station.

With the frequency of services as there currently are, it's unlikely there'll be a need for 9 car VLocity's in the peaks for another 3 or 4 years, but it's important to 'future-proof' the line whilst it's being upgraded.

Mike.
What was the outcome regarding the eight vehicle limit of Vlocity type configuration?
skitz
Glacial investigation within  VLP,  TfV and PTV.  
Total disinterest from VLP and Government as to the current peak capacity crisis on both the Geelong & Ballarat lines, where 100 % plus occupancy is the norm currently .  Will only get worse and blow up right in the Governments face leading up to the November, 2018 State election .
8 car VL peak operation as 2 x 4 car  VL sets giving 626 seats is cheapest option both capex and opex with half the existing 3 car fleet of 75 sets being converted to 4 cars by simple insertion of a trailer car .
VLP can then run VL consists of 3, 4, 6, 7 or 8 cars whereas only 3 or 6 can be run at present . $ millions to be saved in operating costs Off peak in running 4 car consists instead of 6, as currently 3 cars not enough 6 have t be run . Also several Bendigo & Traralgon peak services can be run within 4 cars instead of tying up 2 x 3 car consists .

If 9 car VL consists were operated 3x3 then very few platforms at Southern Cross can hold 9 cars, and VLp would be the only railway in the world to run 9 powered DMU cars.  2x 4 car gives 626 seats at lower capex and opex, compared to 9 VL which yields 666 seats.
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

The original 2-car VLocity had a seating capacity of 140. Inserting a trailer motor (TM) to form a 3-car set increased the capacity to 222, ie an increase of 82. Inserting another TM to form a 4-car set should only increase the capacity by another 82, giving a total capacity of 304 for a 4-car set.

An additional disability toilet is another consideration. The original 2-car configuration (140 seats) had only one, located in one of the driver motors (DM). There is still only one in a 3-car set, ie one for 222 seats. Adding another trailer would increase the ratio to one for 304 seats, the toilet still being located at one end of a now longer train. Adding an additional disability toilet would probably reduce capacity by 6 - 8 seats per 4-car set.
  cabidass Chief Train Controller

Can anyone confirm the seating numbers fo-shizzle?

While I can understand the desire for an extra wheelchair loo, it likely isn't needed for a 4 car set. I'm sure the designers have a passenger ratio for that sort of thing. Though I do like the extra space in the wheelchair one where I can sing and dance and swing a dead cat while I pee.

Doors that don't look down the entire length of the train might be a more welcome addition...

Did I lock it? Did I lock it? Does the lock work? Is the light broken #ToiletDoorAnxiety
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat Line
Can anyone confirm the seating numbers fo-shizzle?

While I can understand the desire for an extra wheelchair loo, it likely isn't needed for a 4 car set. I'm sure the designers have a passenger ratio for that sort of thing. Though I do like the extra space in the wheelchair one where I can sing and dance and swing a dead cat while I pee.

Doors that don't look down the entire length of the train might be a more welcome addition...

Did I lock it? Did I lock it? Does the lock work? Is the light broken #ToiletDoorAnxiety
cabidass

You obviously haven't travelled in a while...all disability VLocity toilets have multiple verbal warnings about 'pressing the key button' to ensure privacy.

M.

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