Horsham passenger rail: Wimmera leaders pleased with community support

 
Topic moved from News by bevans on 29 Jun 2015 15:46
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

.................
Interchange between broad & standard gauge trains would be at Ballarat not Wendouree to maximize interchange opportunites between trains, VLP coaches and Ballarat route buses
..........
kuldalai

This is an alternative proposal. Both BG and SG stop at both Wendouree and Ballarat in both proposals. The difference is that the Ararat - Melbourne interchange takes place at Wendouree, as it has the potential to be converted to an island platform given that some sort of expansion will be required. Parallel interchanges are quicker than sequential and, with the right track layout, could reduce the time required by 5 minutes.

The report shows Ballarat to Maryborough as DG which hopefully by now has died a death and will be SG only, in which case separate BG and SG tracks from Ballarat to Wendouree would eliminate the need for DG from Ballarat to North Ballarat. If this is the case then the BG track should be on the south side so that Maryborough SG traffic doesn't have to cross the BG. (The report itself recommends SG Ballarat - Maryborough passenger services.) Operating Ararat services in parallel with its BG overlap, when possible, reduces the time the seven level crossings need to be closed.

There will be 20 hours plus of surplus current BG VLocity operation. Two maintenance centres (plus North Ballarat) in the same general location seems a bit extreme, but doesn't affect the above. Trawalla is not relevant (......sorry).

Sponsored advertisement

  trainbrain Chief Commissioner

if any pass service are west of Ararat they will still have to go to Geelong. lets face the truth the Vline commuter routes will always remain Broad Guage, time to get over it.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
if any pass service are west of Ararat they will still have to go to Geelong. lets face the truth the Vline commuter routes will always remain Broad Guage, time to get over it.
trainbrain

To Melbourne or to Geelong?
  trainbrain Chief Commissioner

if any pass service are west of Ararat they will still have to go to Geelong. lets face the truth the Vline commuter routes will always remain Broad Guage, time to get over it.

To Melbourne or to Geelong?
bevans
If it is going to Melbourne, all pass trains would go via Geelong/North Shore on the standard guage
via Gherinhap
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

if any pass service are west of Ararat they will still have to go to Geelong. lets face the truth the Vline commuter routes will always remain Broad Guage, time to get over it.
"trainbrain"

SG VLocity Ballarat - Maryborough is highly likely. It only requires converting one VLocity to SG versus the cost of DG the entire route and restricting the BG service to 80kph or BG-only to Maryborough and forcing all SG north of Maryborough to travel the 135 extra km via Ararat to North Geelong plus adding to Melbourne - Adelaide SG congestion between Ararat and Gheringhap (and making SG Ballarat - Gheringhap redundant).

SG services to Geelong will require DG between North Geelong and at least Geelong or an interchange between SG and BG at North Geelong. Trying to arrange the simultaneous arrival of SG from Ararat or Ballarat with BG from Melbourne would be extremely difficult and waits of up to 30 minutes would probably not be uncommon.

Any SG service between North Geelong and Melbourne goes via the scenic Newport - Brooklyn route, which might be acceptable for freight but not for passenger (its hard enough in The Overland).

There is a strong case for SG Ararat - Ballarat and a SG VLocity fleet. Its only the cost of a few SG bogies, a short section of dual track and converting ~90km of track from BG to SG. Other costs such as the Trawalla loop are required for the proposed increased services, irrespective of whether its BG or SG.
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
SG VLocity Ballarat - Maryborough is highly likely.
kitchgp

Are you making a comment here about decisions that have been made?
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

SG VLocity Ballarat - Maryborough is highly likely.
kitchgp

Are you making a comment here about decisions that have been made?
james.au

The current brochure at the PTV site still shows Maryborough - Ballarat - Gheringhap as DG. The above re-states what many have already pointed out. Hopefully sanity will prevail.
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
SG VLocity Ballarat - Maryborough is highly likely.

Are you making a comment here about decisions that have been made?

The current brochure at the PTV site still shows Maryborough - Ballarat - Gheringhap as DG. The above re-states what many have already pointed out. Hopefully sanity will prevail.
kitchgp

Yes that is what I am seeing.  I was checking to see if perhaps you had inside info!!
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
SG VLocity Ballarat - Maryborough is highly likely.

Are you making a comment here about decisions that have been made?

The current brochure at the PTV site still shows Maryborough - Ballarat - Gheringhap as DG. The above re-states what many have already pointed out. Hopefully sanity will prevail.
kitchgp

There are whispers about, though I cannot reveal my source that the dual gauge lines are being looked at to increase the speed from 80 to 100KPH.

Mike.
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
I guess that many options are open for investigation.  Sounds like the decision hasn't yet been made, consistent with what we already think.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

Again I REPEAT read the Report to the Wimmera Councils  fully , all of these things were considred . .

SG services via  North Shore to Melbourne were considered and deleted as longer travel times, and requires more sg rollingstock .
Recommended option is all pax change at Ballarat, fastest travel times and uses less sg stock .

It does take extra 2 car sg VL sets to run beyond Ballarat, as that bg capacity is still required between Ballarat and Melbourne.
(Viz: If you pinch VL sets of the Melb - Ballarat service to run sg beyond Ballarat then there will be a shortage of bg capacity between Ballarat and Melbourne.  You can save bg hours between Ballarat & Ararat but that capacity is still needed between Ballarat & Melbourne . )

Revised position previously announced is Warrenheip - Gheringhap is now to be sg only - NO dual gauge .  Now that route via Ballan is being upgraded with duplicated sections & extra loops there is no justification for dg between Gheringhap and Warrenheip to be retained for emergency Empty Car movements .

Ballarat - Maryborough is still DG, but many parties have told Government dg is not necessary , and to just standardize it .  Viz:  Dont let VLP dictate dg, and  sg only saves both capex, and cheaper track maintenance costs on going than dg .

The current 80 kmh restriction for bg pass on dg track was imposed largely out of thin air many years ago, and indeed if a review is being untertaken and 100kmh is safely achievable then that would be a much better outcome .

If we had strong leadership in the plethora of State Government Transport Agencies we should be looking at  1. No dual gauge between Ballarat & Maryborough  and  in lieu  standardizing  Ballarat - Ararat  .

That would be a far more cost effective outcome, allowing  restoration of VLP passenger services to Horsham and Hamilton; and connect Ballarat to the national standard gauge network .
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

It does take extra 2 car sg VL sets to run beyond Ballarat, as that bg capacity is still required between Ballarat and Melbourne.
kuldalai

1 x BG set }}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
                   {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{ 1 x BG set

1 x SG set }}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
                   {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{
                                                                          {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{  1 x BG set
                                                                          }}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Excuse {  and } as travel direction indicators but it wouldn't accept chevrons.

Hopefully DG between Ballarat and Maryborough will be dropped. Even with 100kph running, the cost, versus a single converted SG VLocity (just requires SG bogies), can't be justified. It will be even more pointless if a bigger SG VLocity fleet for western Victoria is established. A sort of Maryborough - Dunolly DG in reverse.
  woodford Chief Commissioner

A couple of points..............

You need more than a single car set for a service, for a service that can be handled by a single car set, minimum of 3 sets will need to be readily  availible, look at the problems VLine have with the Albury service with only a single spare set.

How likely is this to come about, I do believe one can little trust the current government or VLine management, they have YET to do ANYTHING at all to REALLY solve the Albury issue. It is likely that if a solution is going to require much funds one can probably forget about it.

woodford
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
The funding for the 'repair' of the NE has been allocated and as the NE according to some didn't actually need to be repaired...despite evidence to the contrary starting with a front page of the Border-Mail a few years ago...but I digress.

Let's say that after the track is eventually returned to a condition similar to the remainder of the V/Line network, the government will then be looking to replace the rolling stock, IMO with an Inter-City version of the VLocity. The present situation with the NE is the reason the rolling stock and loco issues are so prominent with the locals along that line.

The government is no more happy with the NE 'situation' than the rest of us.

The Horsham/Hamilton and there I go again...ultimately the Mildura lines won't have the same rolling stock reliability issues as the track issues are not the same as the NE; however obviously there will need to be and I'm certain there will be a spare SG set/s to replace out of service sets dedicated to the new SG V/Line services.


Mike.
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
Just a point on the Albury services.  If the track is responsible for damaging the trains, and the trains are a captive set, then it stands to reason that if those trains form part of a larger pool (e.g. Shep, Western Vic) and that the trains can be rotated across a wider network, then the damage per train can be spread and the reliability issues reduced....
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

Depending on the nature of the unavailability, either a bus or a spare swapped from the BG pool.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
Just a point on the Albury services.  If the track is responsible for damaging the trains, and the trains are a captive set, then it stands to reason that if those trains form part of a larger pool (e.g. Shep, Western Vic) and that the trains can be rotated across a wider network, then the damage per train can be spread and the reliability issues reduced....
james.au
Not sure if it's occurring now but the N class loco's were being shared around between SG & BG to share the stresses of the track on the locomotives.

Mike.
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
What happened to the days of running a trial train ?
  woodford Chief Commissioner

The funding for the 'repair' of the NE has been allocated and as the NE according to some didn't actually need to be repaired...despite evidence to the contrary starting with a front page of the Border-Mail a few years ago...but I digress.

Let's say that after the track is eventually returned to a condition similar to the remainder of the V/Line network, the government will then be looking to replace the rolling stock, IMO with an Inter-City version of the VLocity. The present situation with the NE is the reason the rolling stock and loco issues are so prominent with the locals along that line.

The government is no more happy with the NE 'situation' than the rest of us.

Mike.
The Vinelander

First a comment, like a lot of people in NE Vic I do NOT trust this governement when it comes to rail, they have given a long lasting impression of someone that has NO IDEA on how to run a railway and inspite of being questioned repeatedly have said absolutely NOTHING and as far as I am aware they STILL have not said anything.

Now I do not believe the line is as bad as its being made out to be, this belief comes from the fact that its VERY RARE to see a VLine pass late. A few years ago ARTC had much speed restrictions in place because of poor track, I simply will NEVER believe these restrictions were lifted just to get the line speed up. ARTC DOES continually work on the track and in fact had the East line shut down south of Violet Town the other day for some work.

A point I will make is a number of drivers and track staff have told me the some freights ARE being over loaded, the "steellie" being the prime candidate, that I may say is THE quickest way to destroy a track, all the same the VLine pass's now are rarely late so the line is better than it was, I busy line can always stand a bit of improvement.

Note: The Border Mail has a local reputation of being something of a "rag" so one needs to use caution when betting ones life on what it says.

A longs standing problem is the line has a poor reputation and a lot of people think little is being done and a lot of complaints go back to a couple of years ago when particulary the West line was one can only say bl...y awfull,

woodford
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
The "Steelie" is restricted to 80km/h running because of the weight.  If the "steelie" were causing the issues when we should see the same issues surfacing on other parts of the network where the trains run.  I am assuming you are referring to the WM2 services to Melbourne Western Port?
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line

First a comment, like a lot of people in NE Vic I do NOT trust this governement when it comes to rail, they have given a long lasting impression of someone that has NO IDEA on how to run a railway and inspite of being questioned repeatedly have said absolutely NOTHING and as far as I am aware they STILL have not said anything.

woodford
woodford

The government doesn't run the railway...the government funds the railway.

...others like ARTC, VicTrack and V/Line in various ways run the railway.

Mike.
  x31 Chief Commissioner

Location: gallifrey

First a comment, like a lot of people in NE Vic I do NOT trust this governement when it comes to rail, they have given a long lasting impression of someone that has NO IDEA on how to run a railway and inspite of being questioned repeatedly have said absolutely NOTHING and as far as I am aware they STILL have not said anything.

woodford
The government doesn't run the railway...the government funds the railway.

...others like ARTC, VicTrack and V/Line in various ways run the railway.

Mike.
The Vinelander

In the case of V/Line and the very poorly managed Victrack the government runs them both.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line

First a comment, like a lot of people in NE Vic I do NOT trust this governement when it comes to rail, they have given a long lasting impression of someone that has NO IDEA on how to run a railway and inspite of being questioned repeatedly have said absolutely NOTHING and as far as I am aware they STILL have not said anything.

woodford
The government doesn't run the railway...the government funds the railway.

...others like ARTC, VicTrack and V/Line in various ways run the railway.

Mike.
In the case of V/Line and the very poorly managed Victrack the government runs them both.
x31

The government funds the entities of VicTrack and V/Line which operate and are funded according to government policy of the day.
But to say the government is directly responsible for operating any railway in Victoria is simply incorrect.
  BDA Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney
It would be interesting to know what the allowable axle loads are on the NESG . I seem to remember some steel wagons being loaded to 92T making the axle load 23T .
I don't know what weight rail you have on the NESG and if the concrete sleeps were the low profile or the heavier type .
  BigShunter Chief Commissioner

Location: St Clair. S.A.
Another article, here, from today's Wimmera MailTimes;

HORSHAM Rural City Council mayor Pam Clarke discussed how rail links were vital for the region at the Victorian Population Policy Taskforce meeting in Horsham on Friday.

http://www.mailtimes.com.au/story/4911551/rail-links-steaming-ahead/?cs=225

Interesting snippet here;

The plans to restore passenger rail services to western Victoria were also put forward to Victoria’s opposition leader Matthew Guy at a meeting on Thursday.

“Matthew Guy is a rail buff and he was really informed and switched on about what we are planning and how the tracks operate.

Quotes from the attached article.

This group seem to be presenting a well organised plan as well as campaign.

BigShunter.

Sponsored advertisement

Display from:   

Quick Reply

We've disabled Quick Reply for this thread as it was last updated more than six months ago.