Achieving the 100

 
  TheFish Chief Train Controller

Location: Pyongyang

Note 3: Just in case anyone is wondering, the "City of Truro" is the first steamer proven to have reached 100mph (in 1904) and the "Mallard" holds the maximum speed record for steamers (126mph).

woodford
woodford


City of Truro is the first engine claimed to have reached 100mph but this was not proven.  Whilst most who have studied the stop watch timings of its 1904 run on the Ocean Mail special by Charles Rouse-Marten agree it is likely to have reached this speed the claim does essentially rely on the quarter mile stopwatch timings of one man and thus the record is not official.

The first locomotive "proven" to reach 100mph was "Flying Scotsman" in 1934 with the use of a dynamometer car. Although it holds the world record there are doubts about the veracity of even this particular claim and the graphs involved from the recording. Another Gresley Pacific "Papyrus" unequivocally broke three figures in 1935 when it reached 108mph and maintained an average speed in excess of 100mph for twelve miles.

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  apw5910 Chief Commissioner

Location: Location: Location.
Here we go. Grab the popcorn, or go an work on your layout for a while. I predict the next three to five pages will have nothing to do with 6029's sale and will be a pointless argument (again) about who broke 100mph first.
  Spinner5711 Train Controller

Okay, start chewing...

There were claims of the ton before 'City of Truro.'  'Flying Scotsman' is shown to have reached 100 m.p.h. but analysis of the records shows a lower speed, closer to 98 m.p.h.  'Papyrus' with its recorded 108 m.p.h. is teh first undisputed ton cracking steam locomotive.

Of course, every single one of us have to be thankful for the claims put forward for 999, 3440 and 4472 because they form the basis of the decisions to keep them.
  Mufreight Train Controller

Location: North Ipswich
Okay, start chewing...

There were claims of the ton before 'City of Truro.'  'Flying Scotsman' is shown to have reached 100 m.p.h. but analysis of the records shows a lower speed, closer to 98 m.p.h.  'Papyrus' with its recorded 108 m.p.h. is teh first undisputed ton cracking steam locomotive.

Of course, every single one of us have to be thankful for the claims put forward for 999, 3440 and 4472 because they form the basis of the decisions to keep them.
Spinner5711
Well a 60 class would not be in the race with any of those high speed locos but the Garret could do a good turn of speed, in 1971 I was working the southbound flyer when the compressor on 3807 decided to stop just coming into Fassifern, control in their wisdom gave us 6019 to get us moving, it was the fastest I have ever gone up Hawkmount and while not as quick on the downhill stretches to Gosford even with the engine change we were only 28 minutes behind the table at Gosford.  There is no doubt even a sick 60 class would outpull any of their English racing machines.
More to the point it will take a large measure of interest by enthusiasts to get more government support for the preservation of this historic loco and unless that support is evident to some degree in cash then the chances of government support are pretty thin and the loco could well end up joining the Dorrigo scrap collection never to run again.
  Bogong Chief Commissioner

Location: Essendon Aerodrome circa 1980
The vast majority of Garratts were sloggers, designed to move heavy freight at modest speeds, but I do like the idea of fast Garratts. They are actually better suited to taking curves at high speed because the centre section leans in around the bends.

The speed record for any articulated locomotive is 132 kmh for a 'big wheel' Algerian Garratt, way faster than any steam locomotive has run in Australia.
  woodford Chief Commissioner

Okay, start chewing...

There were claims of the ton before 'City of Truro.'  'Flying Scotsman' is shown to have reached 100 m.p.h. but analysis of the records shows a lower speed, closer to 98 m.p.h.  'Papyrus' with its recorded 108 m.p.h. is teh first undisputed ton cracking steam locomotive.

Of course, every single one of us have to be thankful for the claims put forward for 999, 3440 and 4472 because they form the basis of the decisions to keep them.
Well a 60 class would not be in the race with any of those high speed locos but the Garret could do a good turn of speed, in 1971 I was working the southbound flyer when the compressor on 3807 decided to stop just coming into Fassifern, control in their wisdom gave us 6019 to get us moving, it was the fastest I have ever gone up Hawkmount and while not as quick on the downhill stretches to Gosford even with the engine change we were only 28 minutes behind the table at Gosford.  There is no doubt even a sick 60 class would outpull any of their English racing machines.
More to the point it will take a large measure of interest by enthusiasts to get more government support for the preservation of this historic loco and unless that support is evident to some degree in cash then the chances of government support are pretty thin and the loco could well end up joining the Dorrigo scrap collection never to run again.
Mufreight
Most steam locos were designed for a specfic purpose, so its really futile to compare them. The "City of Truro", "Flying Scotsman" and "Mallard" were/are passenger express engines, designed for power at high speed and were used mostly on lines with moderate grades. The NSW 60 class are are light line (there axle load allows them to be used on 60 lb rail) for non perishable freight, were pulling ability at relatively low speeds was the most important points. The Mallard could never pull a 1000ton grain train, but the 60 class also could never pull a 100mph express pass.

As has already been said the special claims for these machines has led them to be some of the few to be preserved, this we should all be thankfull for. One hopes 6029 will find as good a home as the already mentioned machines, no matter where this home may be.

woodford
  woodford Chief Commissioner


Note 3: Just in case anyone is wondering, the "City of Truro" is the first steamer proven to have reached 100mph (in 1904) and the "Mallard" holds the maximum speed record for steamers (126mph).

woodford

City of Truro is the first engine claimed to have reached 100mph but this was not proven.  Whilst most who have studied the stop watch timings of its 1904 run on the Ocean Mail special by Charles Rouse-Marten agree it is likely to have reached this speed the claim does essentially rely on the quarter mile stopwatch timings of one man and thus the record is not official.

The first locomotive "proven" to reach 100mph was "Flying Scotsman" in 1934 with the use of a dynamometer car. Although it holds the world record there are doubts about the veracity of even this particular claim and the graphs involved from the recording. Another Gresley Pacific "Papyrus" unequivocally broke three figures in 1935 when it reached 108mph and maintained an average speed in excess of 100mph for twelve miles.
TheFish

As far as I am concerned the fact that the City of Truro feat was not official is not an issue, (note: wikepedia states that  Rous-Marten was not the only one timing the run and that a postal worker named William Kennedy also timed the run at 99-100mph with a stop watch) what I find of REAL interest is that the "City of Truro" was a real pioneer, no one had reached the "ton" in Britain before, it must have taken a good deal of courage on the part of the crew to do what they did. When Flying Scotsman and others acheived the feat, it was well known that 100mph could be acheived in relative safety, while it would still take courage to go that fast at that time, they DID know in advance that others had already "been there".

woodford
  NSWGR 3827 Deputy Commissioner

Location: South of the Border
Check out this link, info within may surprise some.

http://www.germansteam.co.uk/german-steam/Tonup/tonup.html#truro
  TheFish Chief Train Controller

Location: Pyongyang

Note 3: Just in case anyone is wondering, the "City of Truro" is the first steamer proven to have reached 100mph (in 1904) and the "Mallard" holds the maximum speed record for steamers (126mph).

woodford

City of Truro is the first engine claimed to have reached 100mph but this was not proven.  Whilst most who have studied the stop watch timings of its 1904 run on the Ocean Mail special by Charles Rouse-Marten agree it is likely to have reached this speed the claim does essentially rely on the quarter mile stopwatch timings of one man and thus the record is not official.

The first locomotive "proven" to reach 100mph was "Flying Scotsman" in 1934 with the use of a dynamometer car. Although it holds the world record there are doubts about the veracity of even this particular claim and the graphs involved from the recording. Another Gresley Pacific "Papyrus" unequivocally broke three figures in 1935 when it reached 108mph and maintained an average speed in excess of 100mph for twelve miles.
As far as I am concerned the fact that the City of Truro feat was not official is not an issue, (note: wikepedia states that  Rous-Marten was not the only one timing the run and that a postal worker named William Kennedy also timed the run at 99-100mph with a stop watch) what I find of REAL interest is that the "City of Truro" was a real pioneer, no one had reached the "ton" in Britain before, it must have taken a good deal of courage on the part of the crew to do what they did. When Flying Scotsman and others acheived the feat, it was well known that 100mph could be acheived in relative safety, while it would still take courage to go that fast at that time, they DID know in advance that others had already "been there".

woodford
woodford
And I didn't say it wasn't impressive, or notable.
  neillfarmer Chief Train Controller

Ok, while others are eating popcorn, the jump in the dynamometer car's speed recorder (see the link above in NSWGR 3827's post) also occurred on Mallard's run.  To connect back to 6029, there is some talk of 60 class Garratts exceeding 70mph. I know they developed a shake around the low 50's and that this disappeared at higher speeds but I can't believe they ever got to 70mph?
Neill Farmer
  dthead Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
It's nice to see a few trying to bring the topic to 6029, but this thread is  split, the 6029 thread is still there seperately. So by all mean talk speed records of any loco !!!!
  woodford Chief Commissioner

Ok, while others are eating popcorn, the jump in the dynamometer car's speed recorder (see the link above in NSWGR 3827's post) also occurred on Mallard's run.  To connect back to 6029, there is some talk of 60 class Garratts exceeding 70mph. I know they developed a shake around the low 50's and that this disappeared at higher speeds but I can't believe they ever got to 70mph?
Neill Farmer
neillfarmer
The wheel speed of a NSW 60 class at 70mph is the same as an LNER A4 pacific at 100mph and these latter could handle 100mph no problems, so there is no technical reason why they could not run at 70mph. Its possible though they may be a little "breathless" at speed due the the very long runs of steam piping from the boiler to the cylinders and back to the smoke box. Chapelon's work showed steam piping was a critical item for high speed power in a steamer.

woodford
  Carnot Minister for Railways

The vast majority of Garratts were sloggers, designed to move heavy freight at modest speeds, but I do like the idea of fast Garratts. They are actually better suited to taking curves at high speed because the centre section leans in around the bends.

The speed record for any articulated locomotive is 132 kmh for a 'big wheel' Algerian Garratt, way faster than any steam locomotive has run in Australia.
Bogong
There are plenty of 'unofficial' instances of steam locos in Australia going faster than 132 km/h in both pre- and post-preservation eras.  It's generally accepted that 90 mph (145 km/h) has been reached...
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Would have been interesting to see the specs and performance of the proposed VR Garratt for the Overland especially in comparison to the H class which eventually emerged from Newport.

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