Seeking more information regarding announcement re Western and Inner West timetable changes

 
  arctic Deputy Commissioner

Location: Zurich
As I recall the predicted patronage numbers for the part of Parramatta-Chatswood that was cancelled were higher than for the bit they built.

As for comparing it to local buses between epping and Parramatta it was never about replacing that but more linking the education and Employment areas of Nth Ryde etc with resedential areas in Sydneys west. Also Hornsby to Parramatta.

Cheers

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  Colonel Leon Junior Train Controller

Location:
New metro tracks between Sydenham - City will free up Illawarra tracks for Illawarra and East Hills services. The metro needs to go to Liverpool. But it would be better to keep the Leppington line as heavy rail. Services from Campbelltown - City via East Hills and South line trains terminating at Leppington has proven to work well. I don't think that no more heavy rail through services on the ECRL will be a problem. New metro buildings will be designed for quick changing and won't have to wait that long for a metro train. If the metro does go to Liverpool, though, what will they do to the via Regents Park service? Maybe convert it to light rail?
  tazzer96 Chief Commissioner

Hopefully with regards to bankstown metro they have a direct bankstown to liverpool branch with a stop at moorebank and condell park/airport and have the other branch take over the heavy rail until regents park.  Leaving the main south line untouched by metro.  A lot more slots coudl now go through the city circle.  Possibility of a return of regular direct main south services, more east hills line services, or more illawarra trains which use the city circle.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Hopefully with regards to bankstown metro they have a direct bankstown to liverpool branch with a stop at moorebank and condell park/airport and have the other branch take over the heavy rail until regents park.  Leaving the main south line untouched by metro.  A lot more slots coudl now go through the city circle.  Possibility of a return of regular direct main south services, more east hills line services, or more illawarra trains which use the city circle.
tazzer96
Metro to Liverpool,

Return of the Liverpool to city via Reagents Park

Closure of the two stops, Yagoona and Birrong
  djf01 Chief Commissioner

Metro to Liverpool,

Return of the Liverpool to city via Reagents Park
RTT_Rules

And which way to you think Metro to Liverpool will be built?  10:1 it's via Sefton Smile.

P.S. I did not appreciate your comments about me and being partisan.  I don't think i was any less critical of the previous government on the pages than the current one.  Only a one eyed Liberal party supporter would think the previous government's incompentcies somehow justify this ones.    

IMHO the core difference between the current gvt and the previous one is rail infrastructure projects - however mis-guided - now survive the knifing of a premier.   Whether or not this is a good or bad things depends on your opinion of the plan in question.  

FWIW, the current plan is clearly superior to the CBD metro project, not quite as good as the direct metro to the NW via Drummoyne (on a par really), nowhere near as good as the Metropolitan Rail Expansion Plan, and nowhere near as good as the Western Express plan (the final plan of the Rees gvt), but better than the metro terminating at Chatswood.

Metro to Liverpool?  IMHO it's using the wrong mode (metro) to solve a failing of using the wrong mode (ie HR as a metro).  And in doing so exacerbates rather than alleviates an existing problem.  That said, some form of express service between Liverpool and the CBD is highly desirable IMHO.
  Colonel Leon Junior Train Controller

Location:
What is IMHO and FWIW?
  djf01 Chief Commissioner

What is IMHO and FWIW?
Colonel Leon

For What It's Worth, FWIW = For What It's Worth, In My Humble Opinion
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Metro to Liverpool,

Return of the Liverpool to city via Reagents Park

And which way to you think Metro to Liverpool will be built?  10:1 it's via Sefton Smile.

P.S. I did not appreciate your comments about me and being partisan.  I don't think i was any less critical of the previous government on the pages than the current one.  Only a one eyed Liberal party supporter would think the previous government's incompentcies somehow justify this ones.    

IMHO the core difference between the current gvt and the previous one is rail infrastructure projects - however mis-guided - now survive the knifing of a premier.   Whether or not this is a good or bad things depends on your opinion of the plan in question.  

FWIW, the current plan is clearly superior to the CBD metro project, not quite as good as the direct metro to the NW via Drummoyne (on a par really), nowhere near as good as the Metropolitan Rail Expansion Plan, and nowhere near as good as the Western Express plan (the final plan of the Rees gvt), but better than the metro terminating at Chatswood.

Metro to Liverpool?  IMHO it's using the wrong mode (metro) to solve a failing of using the wrong mode (ie HR as a metro).  And in doing so exacerbates rather than alleviates an existing problem.  That said, some form of express service between Liverpool and the CBD is highly desirable IMHO.
djf01
If it goes via Sefton I think they may as well give it away. Going direct via a tunnel which I thought was previously mentioned by govt as an option would to me be logical if you want to use the Metro as an alt route to the city. If not, just extend the Metro up to Reagents park and connect with the DD's via Reagents park and Lidcombe to the city.

"partisan", not sure where I said that. I quickly scanned back to top of page 2 of this thread and no can find.

Agree a Metro to Chatswood as a starter project was a WTF are they doing. In other countries it would have been announced as a Metro to city and will take 10 years and would have happened even if a change in govt. The 4 year cycle Australian govt mentality got in the way I suspect. Also back then the cash flows were probably still a bit where is the money coming from?

TO be honest I agree with you, the Metro via Gladsville, Ryde, Epping and NW was the better option as its mostly new to rail areas covered unlike now where its parallel and conversion for over half of the route. Being faster it would have prevent Northern line users going via Chatswood. Again the ALP (and later LNP) suffered the 4 year mentality and failed to lay out the grand plan in one plan, not a vision. Then on the north side I would have extended Quad building two express lines south from Chatswood, stopping only St Leonards, Crows Nest, Nth Sydney and then used the bridge tram lines across the harbour and into the city and at same time built a new tunnel for road traffic which can better manage the gradients.

Regards
Shane
  Transtopic Deputy Commissioner

Location: Sydney
RTT you think that epping needs a rail line to Parramatta and I say that the 546, 549 and M54 bus is more then enough to handle traffic between these 2 train stations.
simstrain
Plus more direct faster 550 route from Chatswood to Parramatta via Eastwood (connecting with Northern Line) and Kissing Point Rd if it was made a full time service.  Even faster with the Eastwood County Rd upgrade, which State Transit had previously supported.
  Transtopic Deputy Commissioner

Location: Sydney
As I recall the predicted patronage numbers for the part of Parramatta-Chatswood that was cancelled were higher than for the bit they built.

As for comparing it to local buses between epping and Parramatta it was never about replacing that but more linking the education and Employment areas of Nth Ryde etc with resedential areas in Sydneys west. Also Hornsby to Parramatta.

Cheers
arctic
Where they really stuffed up was choosing the longer meandering route from Parramatta to Macquarie University via Carlingford and Epping instead of the shorter, more direct and faster route via Eastwood, because it was cheaper to make use of most of the existing Carlingford Line.  The Eastwood route also had the advantage of a "Y" link from Epping to Eastwood to allow for direct services from Hornsby to Parramatta.  Although it would have cost more (their reason for rejecting it), it was a far superior option.  At that stage, the North West Rail Link wasn't contemplated.  That came later.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
As I recall the predicted patronage numbers for the part of Parramatta-Chatswood that was cancelled were higher than for the bit they built.

As for comparing it to local buses between epping and Parramatta it was never about replacing that but more linking the education and Employment areas of Nth Ryde etc with resedential areas in Sydneys west. Also Hornsby to Parramatta.

Cheers
Where they really stuffed up was choosing the longer meandering route from Parramatta to Macquarie University via Carlingford and Epping instead of the shorter, more direct and faster route via Eastwood, because it was cheaper to make use of most of the existing Carlingford Line.  The Eastwood route also had the advantage of a "Y" link from Epping to Eastwood to allow for direct services from Hornsby to Parramatta.  Although it would have cost more (their reason for rejecting it), it was a far superior option.  At that stage, the North West Rail Link wasn't contemplated.  That came later.
Transtopic
I think it was cheaper to go via Epping and use the Carlingford Line and also made better sense for the Northern line to run via Eppping to Chatswood. So overall a compromise of two issues.
  Colonel Leon Junior Train Controller

Location:
What is the exact gauge of the metro?
  tazzer96 Chief Commissioner

What is the exact gauge of the metro?
Colonel Leon
Track gauge is the same 1435mm, but loading gauge is smaller than the current double deckers.  Meaning double decks can never run on the metro.  Even at a later date.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

What is the exact gauge of the metro?
Track gauge is the same 1435mm, but loading gauge is smaller than the current double deckers.  Meaning double decks can never run on the metro.  Even at a later date.
tazzer96

Medium width double deckers can not run on the metro. Narrow width double deckers may actually be possible.
  Colonel Leon Junior Train Controller

Location:
Meaning double decks can never run on the metro. Even at a later date.
tazzer96
There won't be much point for DD stock on the metro. I don't think it matters. On other metros and rapid transits around the world, you don't see other rolling stock other than the stock made for that metro. Except the London Underground, I think they did a heritage on the metropolitan line with metropolitan steamer 1 but that doesn't matter.


Medium width double deckers can not run on the metro. Narrow width double deckers may actually be possible.
simstrain

There isn't much point of that because we are phasing out the V sets. Obviously Endeavours are out of the question.

CL
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Meaning double decks can never run on the metro. Even at a later date.
There won't be much point for DD stock on the metro. I don't think it matters. On other metros and rapid transits around the world, you don't see other rolling stock other than the stock made for that metro. Except the London Underground, I think they did a heritage on the metropolitan line with metropolitan steamer 1 but that doesn't matter.


Medium width double deckers can not run on the metro. Narrow width double deckers may actually be possible.

There isn't much point of that because we are phasing out the V sets. Obviously Endeavours are out of the question.

CL
Colonel Leon
The line is being designed for Metro sets, putting DD stock on there only degrades the capacity. Straight or near straight platforms allows more doors and reduced dwell times. I timed a shoulder peak service gong through Sydney, almost 1min doors open to close based on people getting on and off. This is too slow.

Even at medium demand stations still pushing 20-30sec.
  tazzer96 Chief Commissioner

Just remember, the paris RER runs at frequencies higher than most metro's while being double decked.  Double deck, flat out increases capacity, there is some increased dwell time, but its made up for having 1.5x the capacity of a single deck.
  Colonel Leon Junior Train Controller

Location:
There isn't any problem with a single deck metro. It makes absolute scene, DD commuter rail/intercity and single decker metro, it just works. I don't agree on a DD rapid transit. Paris probably has straighter tracks and more cooperative people.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner


Medium width double deckers can not run on the metro. Narrow width double deckers may actually be possible.

There isn't much point of that because we are phasing out the V sets. Obviously Endeavours are out of the question.

CL
Colonel Leon

I'm not saying there is any point. Just pointing out that technically a narrow DD (narrower then a v set) is possible. I am not saying it is probable.
  Transtopic Deputy Commissioner

Location: Sydney
If it goes via Sefton I think they may as well give it away. Going direct via a tunnel which I thought was previously mentioned by govt as an option would to me be logical if you want to use the Metro as an alt route to the city. If not, just extend the Metro up to Reagents park and connect with the DD's via Reagents park and Lidcombe to the city.
RTT_Rules
It's already been mentioned by an informed poster on that other site that the government has recently shown less interest in extending the metro to Liverpool.  I agree with you though that extending the metro to Regents Park along the existing line to interchange with a reinstated DD service from Liverpool via Regents Park and Lidcombe to the city makes a lot of sense.  It could even justify extending the sextup from Homebush to Lidcombe.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
If it goes via Sefton I think they may as well give it away. Going direct via a tunnel which I thought was previously mentioned by govt as an option would to me be logical if you want to use the Metro as an alt route to the city. If not, just extend the Metro up to Reagents park and connect with the DD's via Reagents park and Lidcombe to the city.
It's already been mentioned by an informed poster on that other site that the government has recently shown less interest in extending the metro to Liverpool.  I agree with you though that extending the metro to Regents Park along the existing line to interchange with a reinstated DD service from Liverpool via Regents Park and Lidcombe to the city makes a lot of sense.  It could even justify extending the sextup from Homebush to Lidcombe.
Transtopic
Why are they backing away from Liverpool?

I can see a LR project coming on!!!!
  Transtopic Deputy Commissioner

Location: Sydney
As I recall the predicted patronage numbers for the part of Parramatta-Chatswood that was cancelled were higher than for the bit they built.

As for comparing it to local buses between epping and Parramatta it was never about replacing that but more linking the education and Employment areas of Nth Ryde etc with resedential areas in Sydneys west. Also Hornsby to Parramatta.

Cheers
Where they really stuffed up was choosing the longer meandering route from Parramatta to Macquarie University via Carlingford and Epping instead of the shorter, more direct and faster route via Eastwood, because it was cheaper to make use of most of the existing Carlingford Line.  The Eastwood route also had the advantage of a "Y" link from Epping to Eastwood to allow for direct services from Hornsby to Parramatta.  Although it would have cost more (their reason for rejecting it), it was a far superior option.  At that stage, the North West Rail Link wasn't contemplated.  That came later.
I think it was cheaper to go via Epping and use the Carlingford Line and also made better sense for the Northern line to run via Eppping to Chatswood. So overall a compromise of two issues.
RTT_Rules
Exactly as I said.  They chose the longer cheaper bargain basement option via Epping and Carlingford, but that doesn't make it the better option.  One thing I didn't mention was that the Eastwood option included the direct link to the Northern Line at Epping as well as the "Y" link from Epping to Eastwood.  In addition to the extra tunnelling via the Eastwood route, this obviously made it more expensive.  If they'd taken a longer term view, this should have been the preferred option.  

Part of the rationale for the original Parramatta to Chatswood Rail Link was to not only provide an alternative pathway from the west to Macquarie Park and Lower North Shore employment zones, but to take pressure off the existing Inner Western corridor.  Diverting Upper Northern Line trains via the North Shore also contributed to this.  Despite the alleged benefit in converting the ECRL to metro, this only compounds the congestion on the Inner West corridor by redirecting Upper Northern Line services via Strathfield.  Not a very smart decision IMO.  

If the North West Rail Link and ECRL had been retained as part of the existing DD network, including its extension via a second harbour crossing to the CBD, then Upper Northern Line services could have continued to operate via the North Shore, reducing the demand on the Inner West corridor from Strathfield to the CBD.
  Transtopic Deputy Commissioner

Location: Sydney
Why are they backing away from Liverpool?

I can see a LR project coming on!!!!
RTT_Rules
I honestly don't know, but that seems to be the latest inside information.  LR?  Perhaps, but I doubt it.  I still think that reinstatement of Liverpool via Regents Park to the CBD is more likely.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

It's already been mentioned by an informed poster on that other site that the government has recently shown less interest in extending the metro to Liverpool.  I agree with you though that extending the metro to Regents Park along the existing line to interchange with a reinstated DD service from Liverpool via Regents Park and Lidcombe to the city makes a lot of sense.  It could even justify extending the sextup from Homebush to Lidcombe.
Transtopic

This is true because Liverpool no longer has a liberal mayor like it did when the initial plans for an extension to Liverpool was announced.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
It's already been mentioned by an informed poster on that other site that the government has recently shown less interest in extending the metro to Liverpool.  I agree with you though that extending the metro to Regents Park along the existing line to interchange with a reinstated DD service from Liverpool via Regents Park and Lidcombe to the city makes a lot of sense.  It could even justify extending the sextup from Homebush to Lidcombe.

This is true because Liverpool no longer has a liberal mayor like it did when the initial plans for an extension to Liverpool was announced.
simstrain
It cannot be just left as the Bankstown Metro finishing at Bankstown. This means Yagoong and ??? will basically be closed as the DD's will have no where to terminate?

The only way this could work is if the southern platform becomes the sole termination platform for the Metro and the north Platform for the DD's via Lidcombe. The southern twin tracks beyond the west side of the station reclaimed by the Metro and converted simple two set storage yard. Automated Metro's can be turned around in the time frame of a  normal stop.

The DD's would basically terminate into a single line into the station, then return via single track until past the Metro yard where it returns to twin tracks. DD needs longt turn around time, but the frequency is such this wouldn't  be an issue.

Its works but do you really want to do this?

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