North Terrace Trams

 
  DJPeters Deputy Commissioner

It looks like that with all these extensions up and running and future extensions planned that they will have the whole fleet of trams working at any one time so what happens when something goes wrong and you have no trams as a back up. To be honest 3 trams now could be placed into service on the Entertainment To Glenelg line and not be noticed so with the extra track to be used then sooner or later they are going to need new trams as the tracks get longer in the future. 3 new trams would not even service the North Terrace line adequately now.
Before making wild accusations about rolling stock or incorrect news about extension changes, maybe you should ask questions or do some research first.

Adelaide currently has 15 Flexities and 6 Citadis trams, a total of 21 trams.

A peak of 18 trams is used on weekdays, 12 on Saturdays and 8 on Sundays.

Assuming 1.5 minutes per stop along North Terrace, a tram would take 9-10 minutes from one end of North Terrace to the other.

With a mentioned 10 minute frequency, that would mean Adelaide Metro would need 2 trams, 3 if they want to give the timetable more padding.

That leaves 3-4 trams available in the depot on weekdays and more on weekends. More than enough to cover any issues or special events.
normangerman
Who the hell is making wild accusations, I just said three extra trams is not going to do much and a couple of failures could do it push it over the top so to speak.

Also out of the 3 or 4 left in the depot 1 or 2 would be in for service so then according to your numbers that only leaves 1 or maybe 2 as spare it is a pretty fine margin though. They would only be doing maintenance on 1 or 2 at a time but a tram hitting a vehicle could put one out of service at the drop of a hat that they do not need. I would have thought they would have had more spare than just 1 or 2 though to cover all contingencies that might pop up.

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  Halo Chief Train Controller

Dumb question? Do we have double track all the way down north Terrace? It looks suspiciously singe in spots. I'd love to be proved wrong.
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

Both branches will be double track all the way, the parts which currently only have one track are simply parts that haven't been completed yet.
  patsstuffnow Junior Train Controller

No work has been done on the four way junction at North Terrace king / William street yet, so would it be correct to say we have a new first?
East nowhere to West Nowhere !!!!!!

Build tracks with urgency, reduce car traffic, make it more difficult to enter the city in the peak retail period, and the pageant, stop train services for 13 weeks, and erect the stupid ( BUSINESS AS USUAL) Signs !!!!!

What a joke.

I had a beer with a guy from Victoria who said he was on the team building the tram line in Glenelg, and this project. Will they be able to build it with the curved earth features of this intersection?
  62430 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Metro Adelaide
No work has been done on the four way junction at North Terrace king / William street yet, so would it be correct to say we have a new first?
East nowhere to West Nowhere !!!!!!

Build tracks with urgency, reduce car traffic, make it more difficult to enter the city in the peak retail period, and the pageant, stop train services for 13 weeks, and erect the stupid ( BUSINESS AS USUAL) Signs !!!!!

What a joke.

I had a beer with a guy from Victoria who said he was on the team building the tram line in Glenelg, and this project. Will they be able to build it with the curved earth features of this intersection?
patsstuffnow


The project has been carefully staged to minimise disruption where possible to Christmas retail, events and cultural and educational calendars.
DPTI
The above quote is from the DPTI construction update Stage 2 Construction which indicates that the works have been carefully staged to avoid the AFL season, the cricket test, the pageant, the Christmas shoppig period, and Tour Down Under.  The North Terrace works were slotted into the October school holidays and the King William intersection work is scheduled for the holiday period in January.

Infrastructure projects are complex and will often entail some shorter term disruption while providing long term benefits.

It would be interesting to live in a universe where projects could be completed instantly without all the hassles or criticisms involved in construction.
  patsstuffnow Junior Train Controller

OK I see the Rod Hook playbook is still in use.

The North Terrace works have caused the removal of two lanes of traffic for half of North Terrace.
Just in time for Christmas, retail and pageant events.

These changes are permanent from now on, but how long will it be before an actual useful service will be there?
Will it be used for
Entertainment centre to Botanic gardens services?
Glenelg to old RAH site?
Festival theatre to Old RAH shuttles?
New to old RAH historical tours?

The King William extension ( not able to be used in traffic) will be done during the holiday period. Does this mean during big bash games, boxing day sales period, New Years celebrations, Tour Down Under, Australia Day cricket games?

Will not be ready for any summer events, will be subject to summer heat restrictions. Will not be available for festival of Arts, fringe events, Clipsal etc.

So when is it likely to be open for traffic? Football starts in March.

I still question why we need two short stubs?
Why not build the four way to prepare for the future?


Yes a good place to start !!



What is the hurry to run a short line along North Terrace?
Are the uni students too fit and need a rest getting to uni?
I thought youth are overweight and unfit and could use the exercise getting to uni.
the existing free bus is perfect to get people along the cultural boulevard and many other places around the city and North Adelaide.
Revenue along this part would be ???? NIL????

Sure it may link to Norwood or elsewhere some time in the next 20 years!! ( just like Gawler electrification. )

Now to king William street stub. Festival theatre capacity 2,000 patrons , Adelaide Oval 55,000 patrons.
Which one would you link to first?

So I would suggest using the North Terrace rail to go to at least Adelaide Oval, as that is part of the long term plan.
Then you could transfer passengers to Adelaide rail station, Bowden or
Goodwood for connection to train services. And several bus services as well.

Now I would like to share a few experiences.

Over many years I have attended many VFL, AFL games in Melbourne.
Princes Park, Waverley, MCG, Etihad etc. Have attended model train shows at several venues, Have enjoyed just wandering around Melbourne by tram and train.

In the last 12 months I have attended Adelaide Oval three times ( my mobility is not the best any more. )
Over the years Many events at Elder Park, in the city etc.
Bonython Park Skyshows.

In Melbourne the first intent is to get people moving. From Princes Park tickets are not needed, just get into the CBD and then change , (with a ticket) to your destination, city, metro ,country or interstate. Same applies at the MCG , Jolimont and Richmond stations just move people away.

The trips to Adelaide this year were not pleasant experiences.
The first to a big bash game involved a detoured walk as the normal route was closed, but no work had started, so just put the signs and barriers up and start work next month. A friend went back three weeks later and work had not started!!!!  I had to rest several times in each direction, and there are no seats or refuges on the bridge. Walking back to the station via king William street was not a pleasant experience.

The second involved a train trip from Glanville, on a crowded two car 3100 set. ( Friday night so trains were not augmented as no rollingstock available (no extra stock cause the jumbos had been sent prematurely to scrap))


Third trip went by bus as it was too painful to walk to the station.
Got there easy, stopped across the road, got told off by a copper for not walking down to the traffic lights.

Coming home had to walk almost up to the festival centre for my bus, which went express past the oval.
If buses had loaded in sequence at the oval it would be much easier for disabled, ( or oldies like me,) to walk a lot less in dark uneven conditions.

Over the years I remember being left at Bowden as overloaded trains went past, and being forced to walk all the way to Adelaide. no temporary platforms ever in the parklands, express trains past North Adelaide, Bowden, Mile End. What about temporary platforms on the gaol loop and insert one turnout back to the system for southern trains?


And with the current disruptions to outer harbour and grange trains.
Why not run outer harbour to Woodville as per normal, then use the up track to croydon as single line working.
Grange trains to Woodville as per normal then use the down track to Croydon single line.
Trains could be run empty to Dry Creek via the Rosewater loop except for the fact that apparently one turnout was removed so no broad gauge movements are possible to Port dock, anywhere in the Port, and no broad gauge trains can travel from the museum to the north, ( Barossa, Burra, Balaclava. )

If the Rosewater loop was retained you could easily have broad gauge services to the Barossa Valley which would make the new metro track to port Adelaide more likely to actually have some passengers on it. The Barossa wine train could be restarted to employ a few south Australian jobs, and if there were to be a problem at the Torrens Junction duck pond ( I mean the new underpass so close to the River Torrens floodplain and the choke point next to the brewery!!!!!)

Yes this was a long post, but there seem to be so many weaknesses in what is being planned I wonder what the future holds.

I remember talking with a railway employee once.
The railways used to serve the public , but nowadays they run trains to suit the railways , not the public.

Was he correct???
  DJPeters Deputy Commissioner

The remaining track on the gaol loop is no longer connected at either end now the point for it on the Outer Harbor line was removed a few months back and replace with normal track, so that appears to be the end of the Goal loop for anything. So now any hope of running from Gawler direct to say the show grounds or further has been dashed. I suppose now the line will just sit there and get covered in weeds. One does wonder though why it was removed though as it was a convenient siding for track work etc and turn backs of things that could not or did not need to go into Adelaide station but now it has to go in.

It would have been better to have actually connected the Show grounds end into the mainline coming from Belair as when the work in the Parklands gets finished the Outer harbor/Grange line and the North line will swap places and Electric trains could have been hauled straight around the loop to go to Dry Creek rather than go into Adelaide Yard and either perform a run around move or attach another set of railcars to it.Even after the Gawler line is part electrified it could still be used for this kind of thing, but they go and remove it, or disconnect it anyway.
  Pressman Spirit of the Vine

Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me
Work on the King William Road section commenced yesterday (Sunday 22nd). Barriers erected almost down to the Victoria Drive.
All Barriers removed along North Tc. between King William Road and Gawler Place.
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

The tower crane for the Urbanest development was being taken down when I was on North Terrace the other day, so it shouldn't be too long before they can get to work on closing that gap in the westbound track.
  Pressman Spirit of the Vine

Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me
Most of the track is layed along North Tc. including the cross over at the eastern end only a gap at the Urbanest development site (south side track) and across the Gawler Place intersection.
Track has been layed down King William Road including the cross over but not the most northerly section (about 100metres to go) But none is yet concreted in.

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