‘Redesign is underway’ on faster VLocity trains for the North East

 
Topic moved from News by bevans on 18 Oct 2017 16:12
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
The minister says it is underway so base don her performance perhaps a thought bubble?

IN all seriousness the idea needs to be tendered for ideas before one single company has the idea of what they think commuters want.  is the Minister engaging the community to ascertain ideas?  

The article says all that is required is SG bogies which is rubbish.  How far we continue to sink to the lowest common denominator when we think we are actually innovative.

‘Redesign is underway’ on faster VLocity trains for the North East

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  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
The thread title 'Redesign is underway' is not correct. Only a design process for a redesign!!

'“the design process for the redesign is currently underway”.'

All is well with a 'design for a redesign'.  We have nothing to worry about.

Arrrrrghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.............................. Rolling Eyes
  woodford Chief Commissioner

A couple of points................

All that is really required to run VLocity's on the NE line is SG bogies and what ever interfaces is required for ARTC's control and signalling. Now I do not know much about control and signalling but if either VLine or Bombardier think changing VLocity's  to SG is a serious engineering problem we are in deep trouble,as as I understand it the vehicles were originally built to be regauged.

OK, well thats just one point Smile.
Any alteration to the interior has already been "done to death" on another thread.

woodford
  scumcock Locomotive Fireman

Do all crossings on the NE have booms? Vlocitys are only crash tested for an 80kph impact
So would find some reluctance to run them faster throu unprotected ones.
  x31 Chief Commissioner

Location: gallifrey
Do all crossings on the NE have booms? Vlocitys are only crash tested for an 80kph impact
So would find some reluctance to run them faster throu unprotected ones.
scumcock

Seems there are many reasons why the Vlocity trains cannot run on the North East.  Comfort being one of them.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat Line
Do all crossings on the NE have booms? Vlocitys are only crash tested for an 80kph impact
So would find some reluctance to run them faster throu unprotected ones.

Seems there are many reasons why the Vlocity trains cannot run on the North East.  Comfort being one of them.
x31

Everyone knows there'll be no VLocity's beyond Seymour on the NE for a while yet and the perceived lack of 'comfort' isn't one of those reasons...however the condition of the track may have something to do with it.

Mike.
  Inland_Sailor Junior Train Controller

I'm not so sure about all these supposed issues with the track. I'm from the Wangaratta area and whenever I get a chance, I have a bit of a look at the track. [from Winton to Albury]  I must say I've never ever seen the track look in better shape than it does now!
  VicRailNews Station Master

The rolling stock is cheap and smeg and not fit for longer journeys.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat Line
I'm not so sure about all these supposed issues with the track. I'm from the Wangaratta area and whenever I get a chance, I have a bit of a look at the track. [from Winton to Albury]  I must say I've never ever seen the track look in better shape than it does now!
Inland_Sailor

Don't judge a book by its cover...
  Inland_Sailor Junior Train Controller

I'm not so sure about all these supposed issues with the track. I'm from the Wangaratta area and whenever I get a chance, I have a bit of a look at the track. [from Winton to Albury]  I must say I've never ever seen the track look in better shape than it does now!

Don't judge a book by its cover...
The Vinelander
That may well be true, but in comparison to the pre conversion days in the oughties, both tracks along this third or so of the NE line [ie Benalla to Albury] seem to be in a far better shape to what it was back then. Not all was better "back in the day"!
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

That may well be true, but in comparison to the pre conversion days in the oughties, both tracks along this third or so of the NE line [ie Benalla to Albury] seem to be in a far better shape to what it was back then. Not all was better "back in the day"!
Inland_Sailor

It may be better then the old days but that doesn't mean it is acceptable. I was out and about on the Bankstown line where ARTC maintained track sits beside Sydney trains track and the difference in track quality is remarkable. This seems to be a constant ARTC trait in that the track is not good enough for passenger trains. Freight trains may not have problems but all passenger trains seem to have issues regardless of if it is vline or nsw trainlink.
  cabidass Chief Train Controller

Covered in other threads a few months ago. V'locity carriages are being redesigned for 'long haul'.

This will mean they will include buffet car (or equitable provisions), likely larger fuel tanks, reconfigured seating, and any other tid bits.

Initially they will run along side the existing N class carriages on lines like Bairnsdale, until such time as the N's are gradually retired.

There will be little change for SG, other than bogies and again other tid bits. V'locities are designed for SG. I swear there was more info on the Bombardier website, but I can't find it now. Wiki mentions it, with no citation.

I thought there was a newspaper article where a set was tested too. Might be mistaken on that one.

SC to Wodonga - 303km
SC to Bairnsdale - 277km

So really not much difference in servicing both with V'los.
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
Will any faster trains on the NE line have AWS, ATP, ETCS, etc?


It is noted that the Violet Town head on collision would have almost certainly have been prevented if the SA loco had had even the crude British AWS system?

It is noted that in the USA passenger trains travelling faster than 79mph have to have cab signalling, hence the NE line steed limit of 79mph.
  trainbrain Chief Commissioner

Covered in other threads a few months ago. V'locity carriages are being redesigned for 'long haul'.

This will mean they will include buffet car (or equitable provisions), likely larger fuel tanks, reconfigured seating, and any other tid bits.

Initially they will run along side the existing N class carriages on lines like Bairnsdale, until such time as the N's are gradually retired.

There will be little change for SG, other than bogies and again other tid bits. V'locities are designed for SG. I swear there was more info on the Bombardier website, but I can't find it now. Wiki mentions it, with no citation.

I thought there was a newspaper article where a set was tested too. Might be mistaken on that one.

SC to Wodonga - 303km
SC to Bairnsdale - 277km

So really not much difference in servicing both with V'los.
cabidass
your broomstick awaits your departure.....
  trainbrain Chief Commissioner

Covered in other threads a few months ago. V'locity carriages are being redesigned for 'long haul'.

This will mean they will include buffet car (or equitable provisions), likely larger fuel tanks, reconfigured seating, and any other tid bits.

Initially they will run along side the existing N class carriages on lines like Bairnsdale, until such time as the N's are gradually retired.

There will be little change for SG, other than bogies and again other tid bits. V'locities are designed for SG. I swear there was more info on the Bombardier website, but I can't find it now. Wiki mentions it, with no citation.

I thought there was a newspaper article where a set was tested too. Might be mistaken on that one.

SC to Wodonga - 303km
SC to Bairnsdale - 277km

So really not much difference in servicing both with V'los.
your broomstick awaits your departure.....
  nozza99 Station Master

Location: Warrnambool, Vic
Interesting to note on Page 43 of the new 'Victorian Infrastructure Plan' (In the transport section),

"$311.1 million to redesign VLocity carriages and build 39 new carriages for long-haul services, including to Shepparton, building on the 48 already ordered."

This is noted to be completed in 2021.

This figure of 39 new carriages suggests an order of 13 3-Car Long Distance sets. Not quite a replacement of the current 19 N-Sets
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat Line
Interesting to note on Page 43 of the new 'Victorian Infrastructure Plan' (In the transport section),

"$311.1 million to redesign VLocity carriages and build 39 new carriages for long-haul services, including to Shepparton, building on the 48 already ordered."

This is noted to be completed in 2021.

This figure of 39 new carriages suggests an order of 13 3-Car Long Distance sets. Not quite a replacement of the current 19 N-Sets
nozza99

In my opinion, there's two reasons why.

1. This may only be one budget year, therefore as with the original order for VLocity 2 car sets which if I recall was 40 sets, this was before any thoughts were given to the centre cars and if demand increases, so can the order be extended.

2. The trains will travel faster than N class locos and have a faster turnaround at the terminus, therefore reducing the rolling stock required to operate the planned increase in services to all the Inter-city destinations.

Mike.
  TOQ-1 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Power Trainger
Interesting to note on Page 43 of the new 'Victorian Infrastructure Plan' (In the transport section),

"$311.1 million to redesign VLocity carriages and build 39 new carriages for long-haul services, including to Shepparton, building on the 48 already ordered."

This is noted to be completed in 2021.

This figure of 39 new carriages suggests an order of 13 3-Car Long Distance sets. Not quite a replacement of the current 19 N-Sets

In my opinion, there's two reasons why.

1. This may only be one budget year, therefore as with the original order for VLocity 2 car sets which if I recall was 40 sets, this was before any thoughts were given to the centre cars and if demand increases, so can the order be extended.

2. The trains will travel faster than N class locos and have a faster turnaround at the terminus, therefore reducing the rolling stock required to operate the planned increase in services to all the Inter-city destinations.

Mike.
The Vinelander
I'm fairly certain it's because the Long Distance Vlocities will operate first on the Warrnambool and Albury lines, and then will be introduced to Bairnsdale and Swan Hill later after signalling and level crossing upgrades. Echuca, Ararat, Maryborough, Shepparton can all be operated by regular services.
  tazzer96 Chief Commissioner

Could possibly be 9 x 4 car sets with a spare trailer, A and B leading car.  (sorry, can't remember what the velocity classification actually is, but hopefully you get the point)
  tazzer96 Chief Commissioner

I'm fairly certain it's because the Long Distance Vlocities will operate first on the Warrnambool and Albury lines, and then will be introduced to Bairnsdale and Swan Hill later after signalling and level crossing upgrades. Echuca, Ararat, Maryborough, Shepparton can all be operated by regular services.
TOQ-1
Warrnambool with certainly be first or second, since upgrades are already underway for them.   Echuca will like be first or second as well since they are already done by velocities.  Then bairnsdale as velocities already operate to Sale.  
The new decked out ones won't operate to Ararat or maryborough as they are intercity services and fast enough they don't require the extra luxuries.  Everyone is fine with those routes currently operated by velocities.  

Albury will likely be last since that requires proper engineering changes.   Hopefully the order enough standard gauge trains to operate at least a daily return service to Horsham.
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
How many N sets would 39 Vlos replace?
  steve195 Train Controller

I'm fairly certain it's because the Long Distance Vlocities will operate first on the Warrnambool and Albury lines, and then will be introduced to Bairnsdale and Swan Hill later after signalling and level crossing upgrades. Echuca, Ararat, Maryborough, Shepparton can all be operated by regular services.
Warrnambool with certainly be first or second, since upgrades are already underway for them.   Echuca will like be first or second as well since they are already done by velocities.  Then bairnsdale as velocities already operate to Sale.  
The new decked out ones won't operate to Ararat or maryborough as they are intercity services and fast enough they don't require the extra luxuries.  Everyone is fine with those routes currently operated by velocities.  

Albury will likely be last since that requires proper engineering changes.   Hopefully the order enough standard gauge trains to operate at least a daily return service to Horsham.
tazzer96
I doubt that Echuca will be served by the new variant, given that v/l trains already run there.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

The extra funding for 39 additional V/Locity carriages in May 2017 will almost certainly be of the current Commuter type, probably as a mix of a small number of extra 3 car train sets; and then the balance as strict trailer cars to build up a number of existing 3 car sets to 4 car consists .  Buying more driving station cars now is just wasting scarce capex, as we have more than enough V/Locity trains per se (as extra peak trains cannot be operated on RRL which is at capacity )  ; what we need now is longer VLocity trains in a mix of 3 and 4 car consists . This will allow the operation of 3, 4, 6, 7 or 8 car V/locity consists . (Whereas only 3 or 6 cars can be run at present).  Lowest capex and lowest opex with an 8 car set giving 626 seats a 40 % increase on 6 cars . (9 car trains would be excessively expensive to operate, and only a few platforms at Southern Cross can hold a train over 8 cars ).

With the Inter City V/Locity sets hinted for Warrnambool & Albury they would most likely incorporate later enhanced features available from Bombardier in this train type in  further strengthened driving  ends, more fuel efficient higher hp engines etc .  This Intercity V/Locity train type would probably be made up of 5 -  6  car fixed consists offering First & Economy, on board catering and adequate space for wheelchairs, luggage,  bikes etc in a consist seating  around 350 passengers.

Within the Commuter area these sets would operate up to 160kmh, and beyond there to Warrnambool, Swan Hill, Albury & Bairnsdale at 130kmh on Class - 2 track with upgraded lx crossing protection .

Ararat,  Echuca, Shepparton and Sale would  best be operated by the existing commuter type V/Locity .  The current fleet will be like 75 - 80 sets, and with Wyndham Vale & Melton electrified a number of these commuter type can be released to run Shepparton and Sale etc as well as replace the N/Z loco hauled peak Geelong commuter runs .

With the Inter City V/Locity type a total  15 - 16  x 5car  sets over the two gauges would be sufficient to run the proposed frequencies, and allow retirement of all  78  N/Z cars .
  Duncs Chief Commissioner

I would look at the following:

  • A five car set (I call them: A-B-C-D-E) with three powered cars (A,C,E) and two trailer cars (B,D)
  • The powered cars would weigh 60 tons each and have 1,000hp (same as the WA Prospector)
  • The trailer cars weigh 40 tons each. So total weight is 260 tons. 3000hp/260 tons = 11.5 hp to the ton
  • This should be more than sufficient to run at 130kph across the entire network.
  • Plus it could still do 160kph where the track permits. It may take slightly longer to reach 160kph,                                                        but that should not be a significant issue.
  • Additional crash protection for the driver can be built in. Up to the standard of the XPT so the train can                                                 go through an unprotected level crossing at 120kph. So only a minor change in speed for the train.
  • That last point is relevant to lesser used lines such as; Swan Hill, north of Bendigo.
  reubstar6 Chief Train Controller

I think that the Geelong line should be electrified, and those V-locities freed up used for long haul services with the addition of a fourth car (trailing car) which would include a buffet.

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