Burnley to Camberwell quadruplification

 
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
I'm waitng for some bright spark to suggest putting the fourth track underground at Hawthorn. Rolling Eyes
Valvegear
how about 5 tracks under the Yarra river that are electrified and used refurbished L and E class as well as the TAITS  MUHH HAHAH HA (don't take seriously) Laughing

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  Heihachi_73 Chief Commissioner

Location: Terminating at Ringwood
Does that mean branching off underground at Jolimont or Parliament or recreating the Inner Circle or Kew line underground etc. Laughing
  Radioman Chief Train Controller

Hello Steve195 and others,

Eltham Stabling Sidings were upgraded about 4 years ago and ( from memory ) can now stable 5 six car sets.

Regards,

Radioman
  TOQ-1 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Power Trainger
Given the curvature of Hawthorn, I'd imagine that they would want to offset an extra platform on the North to make it as straight as possible. Building it offset towards the east might help minimise the need to demolish or modify existing buildings.
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

I would not bother with East Richmond station, that station is a lemon.
trainbrain

According to PTV's latest Station Annual Patronage figures (2013 -2014), East Richmond (525,000) ranks 104 out of 207.
  trainbrain Chief Commissioner

I would not bother with East Richmond station, that station is a lemon.

According to PTV's latest Station Annual Patronage figures (2013 -2014), East Richmond (525,000) ranks 104 out of 207.
kitchgp
Find that hard to believe, I pass it on a regular basis, ;ucky to have half a dozen people on it at any one time, only regular service are from the Glen Waverly and Blackburn trains.
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
A lot of East Richmond's patronage would be students of Melbourne High School - at least that was the case when I went there umpteen years ago.
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

East Richmond is an interchange for the Route 78 Church/Chapel Street tram.

One of the reasons for East Richmond's appearance of little use is the local/express configuration. The local train precedes the express clearing the platform of passengers. There are variations of how this is effected however a simple example is in the evening when the Glen Waverley train collects all the passengers from East Richmond. Passengers for Lilydale, Belgrave and Alamein change to the following express-through-East-Richmond train at Burnley, eg
                             Glen Waverley         Lilydale (with Belgrave & Alamein connections)
Richmond            10.40 pm                 10.46 pm
East Richmond   10.42 pm                 *
Burnley                 10.44 pm                 10.49 pm
By the time the express passes through East Richmond the passengers will be waiting at Burnley (an island platform).

There are probably passengers that travel from Ringwood to the City who have never stopped at East Richmond. Conversely there are probably passengers that travel from Hawthorn to the City that have never run express through East Richmond. Not being loved is a railway station's lot in life.
  John.Z Assistant Commissioner

East Richmond is an interchange for the Route 78 Church/Chapel Street tram.

One of the reasons for East Richmond's appearance of little use is the local/express configuration. The local train precedes the express clearing the platform of passengers. There are variations of how this is effected however a simple example is in the evening when the Glen Waverley train collects all the passengers from East Richmond. Passengers for Lilydale, Belgrave and Alamein change to the following express-through-East-Richmond train at Burnley, eg
                             Glen Waverley         Lilydale (with Belgrave & Alamein connections)
Richmond            10.40 pm                 10.46 pm
East Richmond   10.42 pm                 *
Burnley                 10.44 pm                 10.49 pm
By the time the express passes through East Richmond the passengers will be waiting at Burnley (an island platform).

There are probably passengers that travel from Ringwood to the City who have never stopped at East Richmond. Conversely there are probably passengers that travel from Hawthorn to the City that have never run express through East Richmond. Not being loved is a railway station's lot in life.
kitchgp
Taking the GW line regulary for this first time in October, I noticed that Glen Waverly trains come into Burnley after a Camberwell train to pick up passengers going to East Richmond, and will go through the loop first to pick up East Richmond passengers and drop them off at Burnley.

Another thing I noticed, was that every 2nd Camberwell train arriving into Flinders St would become the next GW train, and the GW train arriving shortly after would become the next Camberwell bound train. This was on a weekend, I'm sure the weekday timetable is completely different.
  rokaifly Station Master

In the morning, not sure about afternoon.
Blackburn trains will turn into a glen waverly train and glen waverly trains turn into Blackburn trains.
I was reading ptv plan and states due to the configuration at burnley currently, this is why it happens.
  Duncs Chief Commissioner

Do we really need to have an extra platform at Hawthorn? Given that express trains bypass it already, I would just use the fourth track as an express line. The same for Auburn.
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
Do we really need to have an extra platform at Hawthorn? Given that express trains bypass it already, I would just use the fourth track as an express line. The same for Auburn.
Duncs
I was initially thinking the same thing. However, as stated in an earlier post, that kind of layout is prohibited by the layout of East Richmond Station and the track configurations at both Burnley and Camberwell.
  Heihachi_73 Chief Commissioner

Location: Terminating at Ringwood
Do we really need to have an extra platform at Hawthorn? Given that express trains bypass it already, I would just use the fourth track as an express line. The same for Auburn.
"Duncs"

The main problem is that Glenferrie and Auburn leave no room to add another platform. Hawthorn's platform layout is reversed to the others (as is Mont Albert), with platform 1 being a side platform instead of a 1+2 island platform. You can't bypass it on an up express since the new track would be at the down end. Hawthorn has ample room for both a track and a platform 4 to be built, it even has a makeshift access ramp from Burwood Rd already in place for the work vehicles.

If they built side platforms at Camberwell (up) and Hawthorn (down) the track layout would be fine once it's moved across to make use of the extra platform at Hawthorn, but trains would still have to share Burnley platform 1 with trains from Glen Waverley. Trains on the up and down local lines cannot currently cross over to the express tracks at East Richmond, although points at both ends of the station allow trains on the centre lines (from Burnley platform 2 or Richmond platform 9) to use the East Richmond platforms.

Assuming it was done, the layout (with no crossovers/points shown for simplicity) would be:
CAM1 .... .... HAW1 BLY1 ERM1 RMD7
CAM2 AUB1 GFE1 HAW2 BLY2 .... RMD8
CAM3 AUB2 GFE2 HAW3 BLY3 .... RMD9
CAM4 AUB3 GFE3 HAW4 BLY4 ERM2 RMD10

This assumes the platforms at Camberwell are renumbered for a new up platform, with Auburn and Glenferrie retaining their original platform numbers since they don't have any extra platforms.
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

Still the same problems. CAM1 has to be the up express line and CAM2 the up local, ie essentially the reverse of what happens now. In the AM peak, Box Hill express trains using the centre bi-directional track east of Camberwell will have to cross Box Hill local and Alamein trains just east of Camberwell. Glen Waverley trains will either have to integrate with Camberwell expresses or cross the express line to access the local. Local trains would not be able to stop at East Richmond. The flyover just west of Richmond would need reconfiguring. Expresses not stopping at Glenferrie (Swinburne and Route 16 tram) would probably also be a problem.

One expensive, pie-in-the-sky and not very elegant solution, assuming a down line Platform 4 at Hawthorn was built, could be to build a flyover between Camberwell and Auburn to switch the up express and local tracks and another between Glenferrie and Hawthorn to switch them back again, thus, using the same platform numbering:
CAM1 (local)        -   Xover    -   AUB1    -   GFE1     -   Xover  -   HAW1   -   BLY1  -  ERM1  -  RMD7
CAM2 (express)   -   Xover    -    **         -       **       -   Xover  -    HAW2   -  BLY2   -     **     -  RMD8
This doesn't solve the problem of express trains not stopping at Glenferrie.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
Glenferrie Station Is one of the busiest stations on the Melbourne suburban network, trains won’t be skipping It !
  trainbrain Chief Commissioner

quadruplication is simply not needed.........................
  ptvcommuter Train Controller

Would quadidng to Box Hill be of much benefit
Now that the LX at Mont Albert and Surrey Hills are set to get removed would there be any use quadding all the way to Box Hill. To Camberwell is needed but what would quadding to Box Hill open up
  John.Z Assistant Commissioner

Would quadidng to Box Hill be of much benefit
Now that the LX at Mont Albert and Surrey Hills are set to get removed would there be any use quadding all the way to Box Hill. To Camberwell is needed but what would quadding to Box Hill open up
ptvcommuter
Quad to Box Hill should 100% be on the cards.

Can run
Box Hill / Alamein / Glen Waverley on the local pair, each 6tph outside peak, direct to Flinders

xx.00, xx.10, xx.20 etc Box Hill
xx.03, xx.13, xx.23 etc Glen Waverley
xx.06, xx.16, xx.26 etc Alamein

So you would have a 4/6 min wait for trains between Camberwell and the City.

Belgrave / Lilydale on the express pair (running Richmond - Camberwell - Box Hill) running 6tph to Ringwood (and as much as possible beyond) outside peak via City Loop
  reubstar6 Chief Train Controller

Personally I don't see much of a point of doing this. Doing the level crossing removals with provision for two more tracks would of course be the ideal solution but I don't know if the government is prepared to pay that extra money. The quadruplication of the inner section would certainly have a greater benefit.
  justarider Chief Commissioner

Location: Released again, maybe for the last time??
Would quadidng to Box Hill be of much benefit
Now that the LX at Mont Albert and Surrey Hills are set to get removed would there be any use quadding all the way to Box Hill. To Camberwell is needed but what would quadding to Box Hill open up
Quad to Box Hill should 100% be on the cards.

Can run
Box Hill / Alamein / Glen Waverley on the local pair, each 6tph outside peak, direct to Flinders

xx.00, xx.10, xx.20 etc Box Hill
xx.03, xx.13, xx.23 etc Glen Waverley
xx.06, xx.16, xx.26 etc Alamein

So you would have a 4/6 min wait for trains between Camberwell and the City.

Belgrave / Lilydale on the express pair (running Richmond - Camberwell - Box Hill) running 6tph to Ringwood (and as much as possible beyond) outside peak via City Loop
John.Z
WHAAAA ?

Glen Waverley through Camberwell. Going to re-open the outer circle railway ?

btw: morning peak train interval at Camberwell is already 3 minutes. (7am-9am 40 UP)
Of course 1/3 are express 'cause that is what most of the passengers want.

cheers
John
  justarider Chief Commissioner

Location: Released again, maybe for the last time??
Personally I don't see much of a point of doing this. Doing the level crossing removals with provision for two more tracks would of course be the ideal solution but I don't know if the government is prepared to pay that extra money. The quadruplication of the inner section would certainly have a greater benefit.
reubstar6
Easier to fix the Box Hill- Blackburn time table shuffle that blocks the traffic (and knock on everything), by completing the 3 tracks to Blackburn.

When Box Hill re-build (1983) was completed, the SAS temporary start from Blackburn was supposed to go back to Box Hill. But worked so well kept it going. Reserved the space for 3 to Blackburn just in case- well NOW is the case.

4 will achieve nothing. Only 2 after Blackburn and that is set in concrete at all the new LX removals.

cheers
John
  John.Z Assistant Commissioner

Would quadidng to Box Hill be of much benefit
Now that the LX at Mont Albert and Surrey Hills are set to get removed would there be any use quadding all the way to Box Hill. To Camberwell is needed but what would quadding to Box Hill open up
Quad to Box Hill should 100% be on the cards.

Can run
Box Hill / Alamein / Glen Waverley on the local pair, each 6tph outside peak, direct to Flinders

xx.00, xx.10, xx.20 etc Box Hill
xx.03, xx.13, xx.23 etc Glen Waverley
xx.06, xx.16, xx.26 etc Alamein

So you would have a 4/6 min wait for trains between Camberwell and the City.

Belgrave / Lilydale on the express pair (running Richmond - Camberwell - Box Hill) running 6tph to Ringwood (and as much as possible beyond) outside peak via City Loop
WHAAAA ?

Glen Waverley through Camberwell. Going to re-open the outer circle railway ?

btw: morning peak train interval at Camberwell is already 3 minutes. (7am-9am 40 UP)
Of course 1/3 are express 'cause that is what most of the passengers want.

cheers
John
justarider
Thought it was clear, but oh well.

Local pair = Flinders to Burnley outside tracks. From there, it would be Burnely to GW and Burnley to Box Hill, with platforms removed to allow for 4 tracks between Burnley and Box hill with platforms on the outside.
  tom9876543 Train Controller

Hawthorn has the least amount of available land for a fourth platform. The northern side has enough room for a fourth track but not for a fourth platform without land acquisition, which would be immensely costly as a private hospital butts hard up against VicTrack's land there. In contrast, Auburn and Glenferrie have plenty of space on their southern sides to construct their fourth platforms. The platforms would be side platforms spanning the footpaths (which are on VicTrack land).

LancedDendrite

Here is the solution to allow quadding of rail line at Hawthorn Station..... simply CLOSE the station.
Hawthorn residents can catch a tram to the CBD. They don't need a train station.
It will reduce journey times for the signficant majority of train passengers who live further out from CBD.
Also, the fourth track can be put in at Hawthorn without expensive land acquisition.
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

Hawthorn (707,000 pass per annum) ranks about 87th of Melbourne's 200+ stations.
  reubstar6 Chief Train Controller

Here is the solution to allow quadding of rail line at Hawthorn Station..... simply CLOSE the station. Hawthorn residents can catch a tram to the CBD. They don't need a train station. It will reduce journey times for the signficant majority of train passengers who live further out from CBD. Also, the fourth track can be put in at Hawthorn without expensive land acquisition.
Tom9876543

No. Hawthorn is designated as a major activity centre of the future. Closing its railway station is a terrible idea.

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