So what's going to replace coal?

 

Pinned post created by dthead

Posted 2 years ago

  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
Oh dear  

Arron wrote in another thread
" Section 44 has been acknowledged by the High Court as being written too broadly, Nash, Joyce and Xenophon will be found to be lawfully elected, because the High Court has stated in the past that merely having a foreign country bestow citizenship on an Australian is not sufficient to have them be ineligible for Parliament"

2 out of three aint bad

The Budding Lawyer wrote

"The High Court needs no desire for adventurism to rule Joyce, Canavan, Nash and Xenophon valid. The very first paragraph in my post quoted by you states that the High Court has previously noted Section 44 as being too broadly written for a 'black and white' reading. It has previously stated that the position of these four are in is unlikely to be determined invalid."
2 out of 4  your improving

The Legal "expert" wrote

"How does one renounce what they do not know they have?"

Since when was ignorance of the law an excuse?

And if people read the thread and see the context of what was written, they'd see what I was getting at


So what is it? University of Adelaide, Lawyer, Collins class Submarine specialist or Power Industry expert?

Credibility  does not seem to be your strong point



Damn, I attacked the messenger

Sponsored advertisement

  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
Electric cars with range extenders (ie. BMW i3) or a hydrogen fuel cell can go long distance.

Ironically if you use an electric car in Vic it's mostly powered by brown coal at present. Unless you have a massive solar array that you charge it with....
I have actually test driven an i3, we had one come through a club I belong to for us to look at, and it is a piece of smeg. I guess it goes alright for around the city, but feels horrid to drive.

I have had to resort to wiki because I don't have the numbers we took near me, but the wiki claims if you have the big capacity version the range is 390km, I can tell you that is smeg, I was not on the drive but two not large guys and a small asian girl scooted it to Murray Bridge and back twice on a charge, it wasn't going much further than that! I think they were worried they would be being towed back from Glenn Osmond (a sort of very inner south eastern ish suburb of Adelaide from those playing along from outside SA), so that's about 300 and a bit km according to us.

The wiki does say the 390km is running in the extended range mode, which probably means no aircon, no radio, and no highway driving and it also says speed limited to 90km/h so you most likely will make it from Adelaide to Keith (if you're not four big people and have little luggage), so long as you don't live too much out of Adelaide, don't run the stereo, air con or drive at night with the lights on*. Driving at 90km/h max would be nice, in the 110km/h zones be prepared to be passed by some very large transports whilst you're driving a predominately plastic Mini Countryman thing that's been lifted to half the height of a Mada CX5.

Oh and this was a I think $72,000 car, which BMW made to have the maximum range, *I remember laughing at the guy when we were talking about it because to get the 'maximum' range out of the batteries in any condition you really should consider the LED lighting package which is not standard and costs an additional $2000 I think he said. I still laugh at the thought that in this day, with this type of car, with a $70k+ price tag, LED lighting was still an additional $2k, the BMW dudes are on drugs I swear.
Aaron

Stephenson's Rocket could only manage 30mph, there's was no cab for the crew and I imagine a journey behind it as a passenger was a real bone shaking experience - which of course as we all know travelling at that breakneck speed the forces on the body had the potential to cause death.

(I appreciate that our Victorian viewers are still of the opinion that nothing has improved since then)

It's amazing how arrogant collectively we all are in thinking that what we have achieved as a civilization to date is as far as we are ever going to progress.
  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
Victorian viewers.........thats goi ... never mind

meanwhile  http://reneweconomy.com.au/south-australias-stunning-transition-to-consumer-powered-grid-20463/
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
I have to side with Aaron on this one - the electricity is being generated at times that are not necessarily when the grid needs it and yet residential solar 'producers' are still paid a very high flat feed-in tariff that everyone who doesn't have solar panels must subsidise to the hilt - on top of the "gold-plating" of the network. The Elon Musk capacitor will help to smooth things out - a very small amount - but the grid is nowhere near as resilient as it needs to be to make up for the vagaries of the so-called green energy supply. There is still no answer on what is going to operate as our base-load supply, in fact governments have been actively shutting down that capacity and there's only a theoretical output from things that are going to ADD to the problem of intermittent supply like a stupid "solar tower" proposed for Port Augusta. It isn't what is actually needed to solve the problem of grid stability - in fact it will probably make things even worse. And consumers should not be expected to continue to pay for the upgrades necessary to accommodate for this stuff; I'm sick to death of being extorted every three months for something that is a basic requirement of living in a western society.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
It's amazing how arrogant collectively we all are in thinking that what we have achieved as a civilization to date is as far as we are ever going to progress.
bingley hall
I'm not going to put up with inferior products and services just because of some government dictate that it's good for me. It has nothing to do with 'progress' and everything to do with a slavish adherence to some stupid ideological construct that still isn't proven.
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
It's amazing how arrogant collectively we all are in thinking that what we have achieved as a civilization to date is as far as we are ever going to progress.
I'm not going to put up with inferior products and services just because of some government dictate that it's good for me. It has nothing to do with 'progress' and everything to do with a slavish adherence to some stupid ideological construct that still isn't proven.
don_dunstan

My use of the word arrogant appears well chosen Razz

Stick to your horse and cart don, you'll be right.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
It's amazing how arrogant collectively we all are in thinking that what we have achieved as a civilization to date is as far as we are ever going to progress.
I'm not going to put up with inferior products and services just because of some government dictate that it's good for me. It has nothing to do with 'progress' and everything to do with a slavish adherence to some stupid ideological construct that still isn't proven.

My use of the word arrogant appears well chosen Razz

Stick to your horse and cart don, you'll be right.
bingley hall
Nah Bing, you'll be the one on the Tesla being towed by a horse mate Wink

You have to get it out of your head that this is a wonderful technological innovation and part of the story of our progress. Electric cars have been around since the invention of the internal combustion engine and they've never taken off simply because they are not fit for purpose. They're STILL not fit for purpose, it's just that the promoters are trying to sell them as a wonderful means of going carbon-free (which they're not).

Don't believe the hype.
  Groundrelay Chief Commissioner

Location: Surrounded by Trolls!
I'm not going to put up with inferior products and services just because of some government dictate that it's good for me. It has nothing to do with 'progress' and everything to do with a slavish adherence to some stupid ideological construct that still isn't proven.
don_dunstan
Not all that long ago, mobile phones were bricks and only the rich and infamous had them.

Don could have been arguing to spend billions installing pay-phones across the country. We could have become world leaders in pay-phone technology. After all lots of countries were still rolling them out.

One decade later, he'd probably want to ban imports of 'Chinese' mobile phones to protect those precious pay-phones

To be fair to Don he didn't have a crystal ball then either. Crying or Very sad
  northbritish Chief Train Controller

As for the crux of the issue and what should replace coal, Thorium MSR.

Available, cheap, safe, relatively short lived wasted, near no scope for weaponisation, no ability for melt down, load following output.
Aaron
Thanks Aaron for mentioning Thorium MSR. There is very little knowledge about them here. I read that the Chinese are rolling them out by the hundreds. These would be an ideal solution for our energy needs.
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

I'm not so sure about Thorium. It still has some nasty by-products and hasn't been built on a large commercial scale yet:
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2011/jun/23/thorium-nuclear-uranium

Nuclear fusion would hold more promise IMO, and how many years and $$ billions have been trying to get that to work? If it can work, then yeah, awesome. Don't hold your breath in the meantime though...
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
I'm not going to put up with inferior products and services just because of some government dictate that it's good for me. It has nothing to do with 'progress' and everything to do with a slavish adherence to some stupid ideological construct that still isn't proven.
Not all that long ago, mobile phones were bricks and only the rich and infamous had them.

Don could have been arguing to spend billions installing pay-phones across the country. We could have become world leaders in pay-phone technology. After all lots of countries were still rolling them out.

One decade later, he'd probably want to ban imports of 'Chinese' mobile phones to protect those precious pay-phones

To be fair to Don he didn't have a crystal ball then either. Crying or Very sad
Groundrelay
That's a totally false analogy and you know it.

It's not a leap forward in technology, it's a political decision to try and force everyone (eventually) to use a product that is inferior in nearly every way to the hydrocarbon fired engine.
  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
I'm not going to put up with inferior products and services just because of some government dictate that it's good for me. It has nothing to do with 'progress' and everything to do with a slavish adherence to some stupid ideological construct that still isn't proven.
Not all that long ago, mobile phones were bricks and only the rich and infamous had them.

Don could have been arguing to spend billions installing pay-phones across the country. We could have become world leaders in pay-phone technology. After all lots of countries were still rolling them out.

One decade later, he'd probably want to ban imports of 'Chinese' mobile phones to protect those precious pay-phones

To be fair to Don he didn't have a crystal ball then either. Crying or Very sad
Groundrelay
I always think of the "brick phone" when this type of argument comes up. And it still amazes me.
  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
Bucket of ship   eerr  http://www.caradvice.com.au/570816/tesla-model-3-quick-drive-review/   and now that the writings on the wall as in petrol and diesel cars to be phased out by 2030 in parts of Europe and now China, I can't see Ford, GM,Toyota,BMW, Volkswagen, Benz and all the other giant car makers going quietly into the night. The race is well and truly on.A Government push might be needed here or there, but so do Adani,and what there involved in  is hardly visionary.

As Graham alluded to earlier,charging is an issue, especially in this country, but while I'm waiting I'll get my old brick phone out and do the form guide for Royal Ascot in England,and invest a few shekels on the nags.

Here's a mob I've been watching, if and when they list, a little investment could be worthwhile, underline the word could.

http://1414degrees.com.au/
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
ON a related note I'm now getting Google ads from both the SA government and the Turnbull government (probably only with minutes left in it?) for fixing our energy woes. It's bad enough that the SA government blew up Playford power station the other day, our one reliable source of base-load, but now they have to spend money to tell me that it's a good thing? And the Commonwealth ads have been about "Snowy 2.0" - it's not even a real thing yet, it's only a study being conducted by ANU which will probably find that it is manifestly un-affordable. Lies, green-wash and more lies. I don't want more green-wash, all I want is affordable electricity, is that so hard?

Also, Tesla cars are dreadful, I really wouldn't be pointing to them as a shining example of what's to come; Wall Street is very unimpressed with its latest offering (CBS News);

“The Tesla Model 3 is a dud,” declared Harris Kupperman, the president of hedge fund Praetorian Capital.

The sluggish rollout of the Model 3 hasn’t been due to a lack of demand. The company has more than 400,000 advance reservations, but has been struggling to boost production after falling into what CEO Elon Musk has dubbed “production hell.”

"We continue to make progress resolving early bottlenecks related to these issues, and there remain no fundamental problems with our supply chain or any of our production processes," Tesla said in a letter issued to shareholders on Wednesday afternoon.

Part of the reason for the delay is Elon Musk's sacking of hundreds of workers from its Freemont California plant - mostly people who happened to be in the process of organising a union to fight poor conditions at the plant so it's pretty obvious there's union-busting happening there. Interesting to contrast this situation to Henry Ford's development of the highly successful Model T a century ago - Ford was of the opinion that workers needed to be paid well in order to ensure they looked after the company's interests. Musk ain't no Henry Ford, that's for sure.
  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
Aarr yes, but the race is on Don.
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
As for the crux of the issue and what should replace coal, Thorium MSR.

Available, cheap, safe, relatively short lived wasted, near no scope for weaponisation, no ability for melt down, load following output.
Thanks Aaron for mentioning Thorium MSR. There is very little knowledge about them here. I read that the Chinese are rolling them out by the hundreds. These would be an ideal solution for our energy needs.
northbritish
Correct, there does seem to be little knowledge here, as a reference:

I'm not so sure about Thorium. It still has some nasty by-products and hasn't been built on a large commercial scale yet:
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2011/jun/23/thorium-nuclear-uranium
Carnot
What's the half life of U232 Guardian?

U232 has a side effect (half life:160,000 years)
The Guardian

Um, no, U232's half life is much closer to 69 years, slightly less actually.

What other misinformation could they have published?

on top of similar fission by-products such as technetium-99 (half life: up to 300,000 years) and iodine-129 (half life: 15.7 million years) ... protactinium-231 (half life: 33,000 years)
The Guardian

Nice! Except what is are the real products of Thorium MSR?

Well, they don't include technetium-99 (which incidentally does not have a half life of 300,000 years, it's actually 211,000 years), but it does not matter because technetium isn't a reaction product of Thorium MSR.

The actual map is:
3x Thorium-232 + 3 neutrons ---> 3x Uranium-232 + 2 neutrons (Note: This reaction is a net consumer of neutrons, it cannot self sustain or run away, indeed it will automatically stop unless the source of neutrons is maintained.)
As I mentioned above, Uranium-232 has a half life of less than 69 years.

Uranium-232 becomes Thorium-228 (half life less than 69 years)
Thorium-228 becomes Radium-224 (half life less that two years)
Radium-224 becomes Radon-220 (half life in the order of a few days)
Radon-220 becomes Polonium-216 (half life of less than 1 minute)
Polonium-216 becomes Lead-212 (half life of tenths of a second - blink and you'll miss it)
Lead-212 becomes Bismuth-212 (half life of 10 hours)
Bismuth-212* becomes Thallium-208 (half life 3 minutes),
Thallium-208 becomes Lead-208 (which is stable)
* alternate: Bismuth-212 becomes Polonium-212 (half life effectively too small to consider - 300ns), Polonium-212 becoming Lead-208.

So nothing long lived, and certainly no technetium-99, no iodine-129, no protactinium-231.

None of those products can be used for weaponisation, none of the reactions are self sustaining, all pretty safe stuff.
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Electric cars with range extenders (ie. BMW i3) or a hydrogen fuel cell can go long distance.

Ironically if you use an electric car in Vic it's mostly powered by brown coal at present. Unless you have a massive solar array that you charge it with....
I have actually test driven an i3, we had one come through a club I belong to for us to look at, and it is a piece of smeg. I guess it goes alright for around the city, but feels horrid to drive.

I have had to resort to wiki because I don't have the numbers we took near me, but the wiki claims if you have the big capacity version the range is 390km, I can tell you that is smeg, I was not on the drive but two not large guys and a small asian girl scooted it to Murray Bridge and back twice on a charge, it wasn't going much further than that! I think they were worried they would be being towed back from Glenn Osmond (a sort of very inner south eastern ish suburb of Adelaide from those playing along from outside SA), so that's about 300 and a bit km according to us.

The wiki does say the 390km is running in the extended range mode, which probably means no aircon, no radio, and no highway driving and it also says speed limited to 90km/h so you most likely will make it from Adelaide to Keith (if you're not four big people and have little luggage), so long as you don't live too much out of Adelaide, don't run the stereo, air con or drive at night with the lights on*. Driving at 90km/h max would be nice, in the 110km/h zones be prepared to be passed by some very large transports whilst you're driving a predominately plastic Mini Countryman thing that's been lifted to half the height of a Mada CX5.

Oh and this was a I think $72,000 car, which BMW made to have the maximum range, *I remember laughing at the guy when we were talking about it because to get the 'maximum' range out of the batteries in any condition you really should consider the LED lighting package which is not standard and costs an additional $2000 I think he said. I still laugh at the thought that in this day, with this type of car, with a $70k+ price tag, LED lighting was still an additional $2k, the BMW dudes are on drugs I swear.

Stephenson's Rocket could only manage 30mph, there's was no cab for the crew and I imagine a journey behind it as a passenger was a real bone shaking experience - which of course as we all know travelling at that breakneck speed the forces on the body had the potential to cause death.

(I appreciate that our Victorian viewers are still of the opinion that nothing has improved since then)

It's amazing how arrogant collectively we all are in thinking that what we have achieved as a civilization to date is as far as we are ever going to progress.
bingley hall
You actually need to read my post in the context of somewhat refuting that a 'range extended' BMW i3 is currently a practical option for someone living and traveling outside of an Australian city.

I posted earlier that once electric vehicles with properly decent range exist they will be far superior to all current engine options, full rated torque and 100% power from 0 RPM is something that few in this country have experienced. That said, we need to make sure that the product exists here first before we consider some sort of legislated requirement to change, and we better hope that while the 'Europeans' plan to be 100% electric by some year, that product suited to travel conditions here is available before such a production change happens there...
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Aarr yes, but the race is on Don.
wobert
GM is building a better electric car than Tesla at the moment, the Chevrolet Bolt. If you really wanted an electric car (for some reason) you'd be better off sticking with an established brand that you know will still be around into the future. GM actually produced an excellent electric car called the EV1 in the nineties but then decided to kill it after the Californian government subsidies ran out. Incidentally every electric car built for the US domestic market gets $7,500 direct subsidy from the US government - GM will almost certainly survive if the subsidy is killed as Congress is currently mulling but Tesla probably won't.
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Oh dear  

Arron wrote in another thread
" Section 44 has been acknowledged by the High Court as being written too broadly, Nash, Joyce and Xenophon will be found to be lawfully elected, because the High Court has stated in the past that merely having a foreign country bestow citizenship on an Australian is not sufficient to have them be ineligible for Parliament"

2 out of three aint bad
wobert
The High Court has acknowledged that Section 44 was too broadly written:

Justice Brennan said specifically of Section 44(i) "To take an extreme example, if a foreign power were mischievously to confer its nationality on members of the Parliament so as to disqualify them all, it would be absurd to recognize the foreign law conferring foreign nationality."

That's pretty much what I wrote in regards to those members, they were not foreign born, have never been recipients of foreign favours, and have merely had foreign citizenship bestowed on them by foreign powers, without action or request of the members in question.

If my thinking matches that of a former High Court judge then I am quite happy in my thinking.


The Budding Lawyer wrote

"The High Court needs no desire for adventurism to rule Joyce, Canavan, Nash and Xenophon valid. The very first paragraph in my post quoted by you states that the High Court has previously noted Section 44 as being too broadly written for a 'black and white' reading. It has previously stated that the position of these four are in is unlikely to be determined invalid."
2 out of 4  your improving
wobert
The High Court doesn't need to have desire for adventurism, indeed the High Court is not bound by its previous decisions. The panel can rule as they so wish on the day with no recourse in appeal or need for consistency with prior judgements. You being widely read would already know this?

Again, I would suggest you read comments from Justices William Deane and Mary Gaudron, both of whom have expressed views in line with my own.

They suggested that those who had taken out Australian Citizenship decades prior to entering Parliament, did not avail themselves of foreign social security, passports, etc should not be found foul of Section 44(i), even if they had not actually undertaken to lose their foreign citizenship. Of note here is that we are talking almost exclusively of those born in Australia and therefore being potentially entirely unaware of their foreign citizenship status.

Of those born overseas, it should also be noted that it used to be common practice for the Australian Citizenship Oath to include the line 'renouncing all other allegiances.'


The Legal "expert" wrote

"How does one renounce what they do not know they have?"

Since when was ignorance of the law an excuse?
wobert

Since at least Walden v Hensler 1987 HCA 54; 163 CLR

And for a long time pre that too! - Walden v Hensler is just a nice easy precedent that been cited in about 140 cases around Australia, and more than a few times in Canada too, likely other countries, but I got bored searching after that.

That is of course a High Court finding, so you need to know as discussed above, the High Court is not bound by that finding, and may well find that they need to find something else next time a similar case comes up...

Ignorance is not generally an excuse, but courts have long held that reasonable people can from time to time find themselves outside of the law, without necessarily having actually committed anything dishonest.

FYI, the quote these days is closer to 'ignorance of law which everyone is supposed to know about does not afford excuse'.

Credibility  does not seem to be your strong point
"wobert"


Credibility is what you make it, sometimes you use valid reasoning and make mistakes, predicting the outcome of High Court actions is always fraught with danger, I have outlined my reasonings, the High Court reasoned otherwise.

When it comes to the actual topic of this thread though, you're still trying to make -300MW +100MW look like a positive outcome. Good luck with that, post us your credible answer to how that works...
  rxclass Junior Train Controller

Location: On the manual turntable at Marino turning an exquisite Rx class steam locomotive.
Aarr yes, but the race is on Don.
GM is building a better electric car than Tesla at the moment, the Chevrolet Bolt. If you really wanted an electric car (for some reason) you'd be better off sticking with an established brand that you know will still be around into the future. GM actually produced an excellent electric car called the EV1 in the nineties but then decided to kill it after the Californian government subsidies ran out. Incidentally every electric car built for the US domestic market gets $7,500 direct subsidy from the US government - GM will almost certainly survive if the subsidy is killed as Congress is currently mulling but Tesla probably won't.
don_dunstan
G'day all,

Tell me, is there a single factory producing electric cars in countries in the world that does not rely on coal fired power station for electricity to power it's production.

This thread is about replacing coal.

Australia mines approx. 350,000,000 tonnes of coal a year and we use approx 2,000,000 tonnes here, exporting the rest for use in hundreds of coal fired power stations around the world. For these countries the answer is coal is replacing coal to the tune of 348,000,000 tonnes a year and growing as they build more coal fired power stations.

In the meantime we shut down industries, export jobs(especially entry level work for teenagers) and have the most expensive and unreliable electricity and gas supplies ever. And some of you believe that the system is working? Don't make me laugh.

Please people, come up with something that is reliable, workable, affordable and does not need subsidies to function.

Regards,
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Aarr yes, but the race is on Don.
GM is building a better electric car than Tesla at the moment, the Chevrolet Bolt. If you really wanted an electric car (for some reason) you'd be better off sticking with an established brand that you know will still be around into the future. GM actually produced an excellent electric car called the EV1 in the nineties but then decided to kill it after the Californian government subsidies ran out. Incidentally every electric car built for the US domestic market gets $7,500 direct subsidy from the US government - GM will almost certainly survive if the subsidy is killed as Congress is currently mulling but Tesla probably won't.
G'day all,

Tell me, is there a single factory producing electric cars in countries in the world that does not rely on coal fired power station for electricity to power it's production.
rxclass
I am not sure about electric cars, there would be car plants producing cars in general somewhere (multiple locations actually) in France at least (if you count Renault, Citroen and Peugeot as cars) and possibly a plant or two in Germany (but unlikely today) from non coal energy, but they would all be nuclear powered, not wind/solar/hydro or any combination.
  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
Aaron  wrote (at least  I spelt your name right this time, sorry)

" Credibility is what you make it, sometimes you use valid reasoning and make mistakes, predicting the outcome of High Court actions is always fraught with danger, I have outlined my reasonings, the High Court reasoned otherwise"

Well Turnbull made a total fool of himself in the media over predicting  what the High Court would rule in the Barnaby Joyce and co episode. He was ridiculed when he made the statement and pilloried after the decision. When constitutional law experts experts like Anne Twomey and several others would not commit to predicting what the High Court would deliver, and even warned against making predictions, I would have thought that any one with a modicum of judgement would have kept their gob shut.But you stuck your oar in and  ended up looking like a right goose.  You've done it on several issues, no credibility.

You ask about grid stability, I don't make any claims to know anything about the intricacy of the grid,and I wouldn't believe any thing you said because of your lack of credibility, but previously I said that the battery and associated measures seem to be the cure for the current issues.


These people seem to be credible :https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2017/07/what-experts-have-to-say-about-teslas-giant-australian-battery/
  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: I was here first. You're only visiting.
Here's a mob I've been watching, if and when they list, a little investment could be worthwhile, underline the word could.

http://1414degrees.com.au/
wobert
^ Different to outdated Li-ion, which is good, but another alternative already exists:

http://redflow.com/
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
I am not sure about electric cars, there would be car plants producing cars in general somewhere (multiple locations actually) in France at least (if you count Renault, Citroen and Peugeot as cars) and possibly a plant or two in Germany (but unlikely today) from non coal energy, but they would all be nuclear powered, not wind/solar/hydro or any combination.
Aaron
Interestingly I read the other day that Renault is making the next Barina size car for GM's global market in France. Previously GM had used Isuzu and also a plant they had in Spain but Renault's small cars are considered quite superior now-days.
  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
Here's a mob I've been watching, if and when they list, a little investment could be worthwhile, underline the word could.

http://1414degrees.com.au/
^ Different to outdated Li-ion, which is good, but another alternative already exists:

http://redflow.com/
DirtyBallast
Good read that, one to keep an eye on.

When this battery deal surfaced in SA there were a couple of Australian companies that had their noses out of joint because they produced the same  or similar products to Tesla, and didn't get a look in. This mob could have been one of them.You can hardly blame them, but credit where it's due, Elon Musk saw an opportunity, grasped it with both hands and away he went.I doubt whether it even worries him if he gets it built on time or has to pay for it himself, the amount of exposure and free advertising he's been able to generate will repay him and his company several times over.An example of this I've noticed recently is that on the TV, whenever a story is done on alternate energy in a domestic situation, the reporter or whoever seems to always be standing in front of a Tesla Powerwall,with the brand name clearly displayed.

With a bit of luck and  opportunity perhaps a small Australian company could have received a large benefit, but people like Elon Musk when they get on a roll they just seem to make their own luck.And the smallest opportunity becomes a big winner.Perhaps it's a vision thing or something, a devil may care prepare to gamble and take a risk attitude. I suppose for every successful business person like Elon Musk there's probably a thousand flops.

Sponsored advertisement

Display from:   

Quick Reply

We've disabled Quick Reply for this thread as it was last updated more than six months ago.