Thread to discuss the new timetable. I put it in the sydney suburban as NSW trainlink regional or intercity services didn't alter too much.
New Timetable - Post Integration
tazzer96
Chief Commissioner
tazzer96
Chief Commissioner
The main one I want to discuss is the T2 extension to parramatta. I noticed this was popular, possibly because burwood has been somewhat shafted by the T1 western line. But the parramatta extension seems to go against the whole idea of the clearways. Despite nearly everything else making greater use of clearways infrastructure. I know homebush termination really screws everything up, does extending it to parramatta reduce the conflicts.
Overall the timetable decreased complexity in the network, separating sectors a bit better. Somewhat more simplified and predictable stopping patterns.
Better use of the east hills quad. Faster services along the east hills line.
Leppington and Cumberland line being used to their potential. Carlingford being used to its potential(along with smart timetabling here to avoid Parramatta rd LX being used more often)
Some improvements for blue mountains services.
Better off peak bankstown services. But no improvement to peak services to bankstown.
Richmond line getting improvements.
Downside is far less trains stop at sydenham - why?
Harris park has been shafted.
Overall the timetable decreased complexity in the network, separating sectors a bit better. Somewhat more simplified and predictable stopping patterns.
Better use of the east hills quad. Faster services along the east hills line.
Leppington and Cumberland line being used to their potential. Carlingford being used to its potential(along with smart timetabling here to avoid Parramatta rd LX being used more often)
Some improvements for blue mountains services.
Better off peak bankstown services. But no improvement to peak services to bankstown.
Richmond line getting improvements.
Downside is far less trains stop at sydenham - why?
Harris park has been shafted.
simstrain
Chief Commissioner
The new timetable has only made things worse for interconnectivity on the main lines west of Central. Nothing will fix this issue other then a third track pair between Strathfield and Granville.
The t2 and t8 are worse then before with horrible interchange timings and connections. Cumberland line going to leppington instead of Campbelltown is also a big issue for connectivity.
Carlingford doesn't really matter since it will eventually be converted to light rail. The Parramatta road LX is no longer an issue because only passenger trains use it and the line has reverted to 4 car passenger trains 2-3 times and hour with no freight trains causing issues.
The t2 and t8 are worse then before with horrible interchange timings and connections. Cumberland line going to leppington instead of Campbelltown is also a big issue for connectivity.
Carlingford doesn't really matter since it will eventually be converted to light rail. The Parramatta road LX is no longer an issue because only passenger trains use it and the line has reverted to 4 car passenger trains 2-3 times and hour with no freight trains causing issues.
AndyV
Station Master
Biggest complaints I've seen are around:
- increased use of S sets on T8
- longer travel times across the board due to increased dwell
- longer travel times for some Western Line stops to CBD, eg Burwood, Lidcombe, Granville, entire Richmond Line
- Redfern issues: removed from Blue Mountains trains and overcrowding on platform 3
- increased empty train movements
- increased use of S sets on T8
- longer travel times across the board due to increased dwell
- longer travel times for some Western Line stops to CBD, eg Burwood, Lidcombe, Granville, entire Richmond Line
- Redfern issues: removed from Blue Mountains trains and overcrowding on platform 3
- increased empty train movements
simstrain
Chief Commissioner
Biggest complaints I've seen are around:
- increased use of S sets on T8
- longer travel times across the board due to increased dwell
- longer travel times for some Western Line stops to CBD, eg Burwood, Lidcombe, Granville, entire Richmond Line
- Redfern issues: removed from Blue Mountains trains and overcrowding on platform 3
- increased empty train movements
I think that pretty much sums up the problems with the addition of the cumberland line to leppington.
tazzer96
Chief Commissioner
Overcrowding on the platforms at redfern have long been a problem. Along with overcrowding on the stairs and concourse. They desperately need an overbridge connecting platforms 3-8 at the western end. (i know years ago they had one)Biggest complaints I've seen are around:
- increased use of S sets on T8
- longer travel times across the board due to increased dwell
- longer travel times for some Western Line stops to CBD, eg Burwood, Lidcombe, Granville, entire Richmond Line
- Redfern issues: removed from Blue Mountains trains and overcrowding on platform 3
- increased empty train movements
Increased use of S-sets is annoying but would rather them run a service with an S-set than have no service at all. Will be fixed when the new waratahs and the new IC trains come in.
BM trains at redfern i'm on the fence for. I'm sure that NSW trainlink have the opal stats on how many people using stations west of emu plains actually change to either an illawarra/bankstown /eastern suburbs service at redfern and I reckon it wouldn't be many. It also means that 8 car v-set services don't become an issue at redfern
I don't know how many extra empty train movements there are compared to the previous timetable, from my observations it didn't seem like a large increase.
I don't like how the western line skips lidcombe and granville in peak. Those stations shouldn't be skipped. Burwood I do agree with being skipped, however would have rather western line stop at burwood while the northern lin run express through it.
tazzer96
Chief Commissioner
I would have liked to have seen greater use of centrals intercity platforms and a few more northern line services doing a semi express to burwood then run to the IC platforms. If you take away regional and DMU IC services , there are 9 platforms to make use of. Along with being able to send trains to eveleigh with the redern engine dive, or the regular illawarra dives. And being able to shunt trains from the platforms to the middle roads in the yard. By making use of the eveleigh yard, and shunting into the middle roads, I would estimate they could get an extra 6 x 8 car trains into central in peak.
An extreme shorter term measure to make greater use of the IC platforms would be to re-lay some track and put some wires up in the redfern carriage works. Could get 5-6 x 8 car trains in there. Use it as day stabling similar to mcdonaldtown.
An extreme shorter term measure to make greater use of the IC platforms would be to re-lay some track and put some wires up in the redfern carriage works. Could get 5-6 x 8 car trains in there. Use it as day stabling similar to mcdonaldtown.
vendettachild
Station Master
I am not sure about some Inner West services terminating at Parramatta. Won't there be conflict with Western Line services, especially from those using the suburban tracks? I would rather see Inner West services terminate at Bankstown as it was before, in preparation for the conversion of the Bankstown line to metro.
scott4570
Chief Train Controller
Under the November 2017 Timetable, the services at Parramatta, for Platform working, are arranged as follows:-
1/ Parramatta Terminating Services: Off-peak times - Platform 3, Peak times - Platform 4.
2/ Cumberland Line Services, in both directions: Platform 3, from 2231 hours, services going West use Platform 4.
3/ Richmond Line Services, Down direction: Off-peak times - Platform 4.
4/ All other Western Line Services use Platform 1 and 2.
1/ Parramatta Terminating Services: Off-peak times - Platform 3, Peak times - Platform 4.
2/ Cumberland Line Services, in both directions: Platform 3, from 2231 hours, services going West use Platform 4.
3/ Richmond Line Services, Down direction: Off-peak times - Platform 4.
4/ All other Western Line Services use Platform 1 and 2.
Newcastle Express
Chief Commissioner
I hope this link works.
05:03 Wickham - Central weekday express
Click on https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Hw-Z8WHk8BzrAr1CBBt-xUfzClT2OT_J7vdW48eAxXo/edit?usp=sharing
Note, if you're on a slow connection, you'll need to wait until it completely loads to make sure all times are aligned in the correct columns.
With those times, they could do it in a total of about 2 hrs 11 mins INCLUDING the stops.
05:03 Wickham - Central weekday express
Click on https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Hw-Z8WHk8BzrAr1CBBt-xUfzClT2OT_J7vdW48eAxXo/edit?usp=sharing
Note, if you're on a slow connection, you'll need to wait until it completely loads to make sure all times are aligned in the correct columns.
With those times, they could do it in a total of about 2 hrs 11 mins INCLUDING the stops.
am134
Locomotive Fireman
I hope this link works.
05:03 Wickham - Central weekday express
Click on https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Hw-Z8WHk8BzrAr1CBBt-xUfzClT2OT_J7vdW48eAxXo/edit?usp=sharing
Note, if you're on a slow connection, you'll need to wait until it completely loads to make sure all times are aligned in the correct columns.
With those times, they could do it in a total of about 2 hrs 11 mins INCLUDING the stops.
Yes they could, until the next time they have a signal fault, or some other operational issue which takes down the whole network for the whole day.
tazzer96
Chief Commissioner
You need to remember that this is the quiet season for public transport. I'm sure the train can go faster but you haven't taken into account alot of variables.
Rain. Rain slows services down, means they often put down 100% acceleration and braking for curves and stations needs to start earlier.
disabled. Those requiring assistance will slow the service down. One reason why timetables have padding
absolute load. Less people are using this train now than they will in march 2018.
delays to other services. right now hornsby is a hellbox. You could have delays to other services, especially those to to the north shore slowing everythingdown from berowra to hornsby.
Regional services. That is around the time the ex-casino overnighter comes through to sydney. delays to that will mean it will likely get priority over your IC service.
Some of those delays at stations would be to provide the ideal overtake of suburban services south of epping. You could leave earlier, but you would be sitting on reds going slow until an overtaking spot. may as well sit at the station and run through faster.
You also need to understand that a service from newcastle to sydney central conflicts with:
1. Hunter services. All stops (wickham - hamilton junction)
2. other CC and Newcastle services. Limited and all stops
3. North shore line trains. All stops
4. Northern line via chatswood services. All stops
5. Northern line epping via strathfield services. All stops
6. western line services using the main's from strathfield-redfern
7. blue mountains services
8. regional services around sydney central
Once you start lookign at how much one service interconnects and conflicts with so many other lines, you can see what a miracle it is.
Rain. Rain slows services down, means they often put down 100% acceleration and braking for curves and stations needs to start earlier.
disabled. Those requiring assistance will slow the service down. One reason why timetables have padding
absolute load. Less people are using this train now than they will in march 2018.
delays to other services. right now hornsby is a hellbox. You could have delays to other services, especially those to to the north shore slowing everythingdown from berowra to hornsby.
Regional services. That is around the time the ex-casino overnighter comes through to sydney. delays to that will mean it will likely get priority over your IC service.
Some of those delays at stations would be to provide the ideal overtake of suburban services south of epping. You could leave earlier, but you would be sitting on reds going slow until an overtaking spot. may as well sit at the station and run through faster.
You also need to understand that a service from newcastle to sydney central conflicts with:
1. Hunter services. All stops (wickham - hamilton junction)
2. other CC and Newcastle services. Limited and all stops
3. North shore line trains. All stops
4. Northern line via chatswood services. All stops
5. Northern line epping via strathfield services. All stops
6. western line services using the main's from strathfield-redfern
7. blue mountains services
8. regional services around sydney central
Once you start lookign at how much one service interconnects and conflicts with so many other lines, you can see what a miracle it is.
simstrain
Chief Commissioner
Sydney's problem is that it is too complicated and interconnected. Signalling can only do so much. More track is needed to solve the problems we have in Sydney and it is nothing at all to do with signalling.
tazzer96
Chief Commissioner
The sydney signalling allows for a heap more services than qld, perth or adelaides. Not going to get much better without spending some money on something like ETCS or a moving block system, which will probably never happen, just build more metro's to take strain off the suburban railway.
Its amazing to think that the lines in sydney are probably the least interconnected they have ever been. Clearways projects have done there job rather well. Along with the glenfield grade separations, epping turnback, NSFC projects, SSFL.
More physical track is needed. Even little things like an extra passing loop on the richmond and south coast lines. Extra platforms at places like emu plains. Electrified overtaking lanes on the newcastle line. Some higher speed points. Short of having a new tunnel from somewhere like granville into the city, not much can be drastically improved.
Its amazing to think that the lines in sydney are probably the least interconnected they have ever been. Clearways projects have done there job rather well. Along with the glenfield grade separations, epping turnback, NSFC projects, SSFL.
More physical track is needed. Even little things like an extra passing loop on the richmond and south coast lines. Extra platforms at places like emu plains. Electrified overtaking lanes on the newcastle line. Some higher speed points. Short of having a new tunnel from somewhere like granville into the city, not much can be drastically improved.
simstrain
Chief Commissioner
The western metro is a must and it should go all the way to Blacktown and not stop at Parramatta. Stopping at westmead and seven hills in between. The south west metro should go underground to Bankstown instead of taking over the T3 Bankstown line. With the M1 taking all the stations to Bankstown it would free up the T3 to provide a faster service to Liverpool. It would also remove the need for more then 4 x T2 via granville services during peak hour.
Colonel Leon
Junior Train Controller
Location:
I don't see a problem with the Blue Mountains service not stopping at Redfern. It's just another station to slow things down, not to mention it being only a jump away from Central.
The T2 Inner West services to Parramatta replace the old slow T1 service that used to stop at Harris Park, Granville, Clyde, Auburn, Lidcombe, Flemington then limited to the city. It is actually saving some space on the tracks, as this service is acting as the slow T1, but also as the inner west T2 stopping at Stanmore, Petersham and the like.
CL
The T2 Inner West services to Parramatta replace the old slow T1 service that used to stop at Harris Park, Granville, Clyde, Auburn, Lidcombe, Flemington then limited to the city. It is actually saving some space on the tracks, as this service is acting as the slow T1, but also as the inner west T2 stopping at Stanmore, Petersham and the like.
CL
Kurmudgeon
Junior Train Controller
I don't see a problem with the Blue Mountains service not stopping at Redfern. It's just another station to slow things down, not to mention it being only a jump away from Central.
Then how about having more services not stop there? I catch a Western line service and I don't get off at Redfern... I'd like my train to not stop there, since it is, as you so insightfully point out, just another station to slow things down, not to mention it being only a jump away from Central.
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