R766- the final hurdle

 
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
I for one am looking forward to seeing R766 steam onto Roma Street with a train of blue and gold Spirit cars, turning it would probably involve splinting the engine and tender and I am sure there would be no problems getting bums on seats for a Roma Street to Southern Cross trip.
Mufreight
I can well understand this. It would be fantastic.
Some factors to consider are:-
Spirit cars are on BG. Who is going to put them all on SG, and who's paying?
They are sitting cars - do you really want to sit up all the way from Brisbane to Melbourne?
There will be a limit on the number of cars simply due to the hauling capability of the R. Off the top of the head, seven vehicles would probably be a fair load. Amongst these vehicles will be a power van, and another van for carrying engine requirements et al, plus at least one buffet or diner. This obviously affects the number of passengers, and would inevitably result in a pretty expensive trip.
Where will the loco take coal? How will the coal get there? If it carries its own, bang goes more seating capacity. Same with water; hauling a water gin equals same result - even fewer bums on seats.
Everyone is going to be pretty smelly by the time they get to Melbourne; there are no showers on board.
Will there be enough loco crews to cover such a distance? What about train staff? They'll probably require a crew car.
Splitting the engine and tender sounds fine, but have you ever done it with an engine that has a mechanical stoker? It's a much more fiddly job than normal.
I love enthusiasm, but unfortunately it has to be matched with practicality.

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  lsrailfan Chief Commissioner

Location: Somewhere you're not
Yes, whilst I'm 100% sure that the video update was done in good faith, it has raised more questions than answers at this point in time, and there are people reading this that might think we are just heaping a whole lot of crap on the R766 Project, that is far from the truth, everyone on here is just concerned about the updates that have been coming out (or lack thereof)

Kind Regards
  L-1172 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Working hard like a donkey at my wife's computer.
Isn't R766 an oil burner or has it been converted back to a coal burner?
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
Isn't R766 an oil burner or has it been converted back to a coal burner?
"L-1172"
Good question, and I'm not certain. I had an idea that it had gone or was going back to coal burning.
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
oil burner, they stated in the video
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Isn't R766 an oil burner or has it been converted back to a coal burner?
Good question, and I'm not certain. I had an idea that it had gone or was going back to coal burning.
Valvegear
The video showed it as an oil burner.
That makes splitting the engine and tender even more diabolical.
  dthead Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
The video showed it as an oil burner.
That makes splitting the engine and tender even more diabolical.
YM-Mundrabilla


Wonder where it would need to turn like that. Melbourne has a SG triangle, and brisbane has a loop at fisherman's island.

Regards,
David Head

ps this discussion is so like the classic 3801 one Wink
  a6et Minister for Railways

oil burner, they stated in the video
Dangersdan707
And that means that more water is needed, oil burners at least the 59cl needed to take water more often than coalies, I understand that was the same with the converted 55cl.

The other aspect is the type of oil needed for it, while some work could be done using dieseline it was not the best. Also oil burners needed sand or other cleaning agents for blockages in the tubes, meaning the tubes needed replacement more frequently.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Melbourne and Seymour both have (had?) SG turntables (?).
Not that I think any of us need to worry about that until about 2030 for R 766.
Perhaps we will have a SG R of our own before then. Smile
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
Seymour has a dual gauge turntable
  mikesyd Chief Commissioner

Location: Lurking
The places where a SG Locomotive can be turned (including the lines currently being converted) in Victoria would be worth a thread of its own.
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
oil burner, they stated in the video
"Dangersdan707"
Thanks. I obviously missed that.
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
dimboola has a turntable
  overlander Station Master

Have I got this right? A privately owned locomotive leased to a group/individual wanting to operate it commercially, aren't they also behind the purchase of the cars from Canberra which are being upgraded at Lithgow, want the public to donate money for a radio?
  locojoe67 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Gen X purgatory/urban Joh-land
Google maps shows what appears to be turntable at the northern end of Acacia Ridge yard, coordinates -27.5707958, 153.0304078.

The track leading to it dual gauge but can't make out the deck itself.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
The places where a SG Locomotive can be turned (including the lines currently being converted) in Victoria would be worth a thread of its own.
mikesyd
No turntables on the Mildura / Sea Lake / Manangatang lines are planed for gauge conversion.

A balloon grain loading loop does exist at Birchip.
  Donald Chief Commissioner

Location: Donald. Duck country.
The places where a SG Locomotive can be turned (including the lines currently being converted) in Victoria would be worth a thread of its own.
No turntables on the Mildura / Sea Lake / Manangatang lines are planed for gauge conversion.

A balloon grain loading loop does exist at Birchip.
Nightfire
There is another balloon loop at Charlton.
  skitz Chief Commissioner

The places where a SG Locomotive can be turned (including the lines currently being converted) in Victoria would be worth a thread of its own.
No turntables on the Mildura / Sea Lake / Manangatang lines are planed for gauge conversion.

A balloon grain loading loop does exist at Birchip.
There is another balloon loop at Charlton.
Donald
I believe it was planned to be a full loop but currently it is not.
  LowndesJ515 #TeamRog

Location: Not in Victoria
The only way I can see to promote interest south of the Murray is for a double head of 3801 or 3642 with 766. That can't happen until 766 is fully accredited to operate.
And you could imagine the debate and wringing of hands then over the subject of which one would be leading.

Who knows, we might even get to see a 3801+3642 Double Header before R766 steams out onto the mainline.
In Victoria? Wouldn't that largely depend on them letting VR crews on the footplate? Isn't that the issue that prevented the Garrett coming south? They weren't prepared to let Victorian crews loose on their baby?

BG
BrentonGolding
Absolute nonsense. The crewing issue in Victoria had nothing to do with the Garratt heading south, in fact the crewing of the locomotive never came up in discussion during the planning of it. There was a range of issues on why the Garratt never headed south, of which mostly revolved around the reliability of the locomotive at the time having just re-entered service.
If ARHS was still going today, 2019 was being planned to bring it down south.
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
Absolute nonsense. The crewing issue in Victoria had nothing to do with the Garratt heading south, in fact the crewing of the locomotive never came up in discussion during the planning of it.
"LowndesJ515"
Thanks for your post - you have confirmed what I believed to be the case when I posted earlier. I could not believe that there was any problem with crews, as history has shown.
  GrahamH Chief Commissioner

Location: At a terminal on the www.
Google maps shows what appears to be turntable at the northern end of Acacia Ridge yard, coordinates -27.5707958, 153.0304078.

The track leading to it dual gauge but can't make out the deck itself.
locojoe67
In April 2009 I watched an NR turned at Acacia Ridge.
http://www.ipernity.com/doc/grahamh/24243869
http://www.ipernity.com/doc/grahamh/24243905
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
The places where a SG Locomotive can be turned (including the lines currently being converted) in Victoria would be worth a thread of its own.
"mikesyd"


There aren't that many places in Vic that can turn an SG steam loco, as far as I can think, there are only:
Dimboola (SG Turntable);
South Dynon (SG Turntable);
Sunshine (Triangle)
Seymour (DG Turntable);
Yarrawonga (SG Turntable, was still connected when I was last up there 4 or 5 years ago, current status unknown)
Ararat (triangle, to be completed as a part of the Murray Basin project);
Birchip (balloon loop in the grain sidings, to be converted as a part of the Murray Basin project);
North Geelong (DG grain loop, unlikely that a Steam special would be granted access)
and that is about it.

As far as I am aware, the turntable still exists at Mildura, although it has no track connecting it to the mainline, there is no likelyhood that anybody will be willing to pay for it to be reconnected.

I know there is definitely a turntable at Wycheproof, it is currently connected as Broad Gauge although booked out, As with Mildura, I can't see anybody forking out the funds to gauge convert it.

As far as I can see, that is the sum total of SG loco turning locations in Victoria.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
Absolute nonsense. The crewing issue in Victoria had nothing to do with the Garratt heading south, in fact the crewing of the locomotive never came up in discussion during the planning of it. There was a range of issues on why the Garratt never headed south, of which mostly revolved around the reliability of the locomotive at the time having just re-entered service.
If ARHS was still going today, 2019 was being planned to bring it down south.
LowndesJ515
Excellent, I was waiting for some one to bite on this. I love it how you can put a scenario out to 2 different sides and get 2 completely contradictory answers.

Firstly let me say that I am not sure whether or not the following rules apply on the ARTC leased SG lines or not however some of what I was told came from a recent conversation with a person with in depth knowledge of the VR heritage roster. Also let me say that I have nothing but respect for the VR Heritage crews and none of this should be taken as a slight against them, I think they do a great job and a great service to the heritage rail sector in Victoria.

As I understand the current situation running a Steam loco on Victorian lines requires both the Driver and Fireman to be from the VR Heritage pool.

R766 is one scenario - there is already an oil burning R class running around Victoria so VR Heritage crews already have training on it. Assuming route knowledge on the NE line is not an issue for those qualified on the Oil burning R and that it is accepted as basically the same type of loco despite the gauge change then it shouldn't present too many issues.

The Garrett and 3801 / whatever double header is a totally different scenario. There would be no drivers in the heritage pool qualified on these locos. So firstly any crews who were going to operate these locos in Victoria would need to have route knowledge on the line from Wodonga to Southern Cross and / or whatever other line/s proposed to be travelled on. Next they would need to be trained on the loco/s concerned. If this were to be the Garrett or a 38 class this would require them to what, travel to NSW to be trained?

Like I say I could be totally wrong about this but a lot has changed since 3801 last ventured South and was driven by Wodonga drivers. It will be interesting to see what comes to pass

BG
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
Like I say I could be totally wrong about this but a lot has changed since 3801 last ventured South and was driven by Wodonga drivers.
"Brenton Golding"
The instance I quoted of the Wodonga driver was just the "delivery run", and subsequently 3801 was driven by many drivers from depots other than Wodonga. A number of Dynon crews worked the engine and one driver, Jim Seletto, wrote a great article about his pleasure in being on the regulator of this iconic loco. I can name at least another five Dynon enginemen who worked 3801 on its visits to Victoria.
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
Is it possible for drivers who are qualified to drive a specific loco to drive along a route they have no knowledge of providing they have a qualified person accompanying them on the footplate?

This of course would then require more crew members, some of whom would have to travel a fair distance with the train to ensure its ability to operate, but I assume a scenario like this would be possible.

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