R766- the final hurdle

 
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
Like I say I could be totally wrong about this but a lot has changed since 3801 last ventured South and was driven by Wodonga drivers.
The instance I quoted of the Wodonga driver was just the "delivery run", and subsequently 3801 was driven by many drivers from depots other than Wodonga. A number of Dynon crews worked the engine and one driver, Jim Seletto, wrote a great article about his pleasure in being on the regulator of this iconic loco. I can name at least another five Dynon enginemen who worked 3801 on its visits to Victoria.
Valvegear
Not doubting if for a second Valvegear and in a round about way you just proved the point that I was trying and not succeeding in making. There are no longer drivers scattered around various depots who are able / allowed to drive heritage steam in Victoria. Much has changed in the intervening years.

BG

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  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
Is it possible for drivers who are qualified to drive a specific loco to drive along a route they have no knowledge of providing they have a qualified person accompanying them on the footplate?
Gman_86
Good question. In these days of liability and risk aversion would that not make it a nightmare in case of an incident - the driver is responsible but which driver, the one holding the regulator or the one "reading the map"

BG
  mikesyd Chief Commissioner

Location: Lurking
Whatever the rules are about who can drive and where, things have changed somewhat since the last SG steam Locomotive crossed the Murray (2000?) and crewing arrangements on both sides of the Murray would be one of just many issues that any group that were to organise such a venture would have to address. I doubt that the number on the Locomotive would make any difference.
  mikesyd Chief Commissioner

Location: Lurking
The places where a SG Locomotive can be turned (including the lines currently being converted) in Victoria would be worth a thread of its own.


There aren't that many places in Vic that can turn an SG steam loco, as far as I can think, there are only:
Dimboola (SG Turntable);
South Dynon (SG Turntable);
Sunshine (Triangle)
Seymour (DG Turntable);
Yarrawonga (SG Turntable, was still connected when I was last up there 4 or 5 years ago, current status unknown)
Ararat (triangle, to be completed as a part of the Murray Basin project);
Birchip (balloon loop in the grain sidings, to be converted as a part of the Murray Basin project);
North Geelong (DG grain loop, unlikely that a Steam special would be granted access)
and that is about it.

As far as I am aware, the turntable still exists at Mildura, although it has no track connecting it to the mainline, there is no likelyhood that anybody will be willing to pay for it to be reconnected.

I know there is definitely a turntable at Wycheproof, it is currently connected as Broad Gauge although booked out, As with Mildura, I can't see anybody forking out the funds to gauge convert it.

As far as I can see, that is the sum total of SG loco turning locations in Victoria.
Gman_86
There was still a TT at St Arnaud (status unknown), though I doubt that it will have been converted to SG.

Pray for Graincorp (or other storage owners) to build a few new Balloon Loops is about the only way I think.
  Donald Chief Commissioner

Location: Donald. Duck country.
Just drove past the balloon loop at Charlton  (still BG) and a Qube grainy was sitting in the loop.   Hopefully it will be retained when the line gets converted later this year.
  LowndesJ515 #TeamRog

Location: Not in Victoria
Crewing is up to the operator and what is in that operators Safety Management System.

The Locos that come into Vic is crewed by the operators qualified train crews. Should a THNSW loco come into Victoria, it will be crewed by qualified THNSW crews.
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
Crewing is up to the operator and what is in that operators Safety Management System.

The Locos that come into Vic is crewed by the operators qualified train crews. Should a THNSW loco come into Victoria, it will be crewed by qualified THNSW crews.
"LowndesJ515"

Thanks Lowndes.  Just for the benefit of a layman, what is THNSW?
  ivahri Train Controller

Crewing is up to the operator and what is in that operators Safety Management System.

The Locos that come into Vic is crewed by the operators qualified train crews. Should a THNSW loco come into Victoria, it will be crewed by qualified THNSW crews.

Thanks Lowndes.  Just for the benefit of a layman, what is THNSW?
Valvegear
Transport Heritage NSW
  Lockspike Chief Commissioner

Is it possible for drivers who are qualified to drive a specific loco to drive along a route they have no knowledge of providing they have a qualified person accompanying them on the footplate?

This of course would then require more crew members, some of whom would have to travel a fair distance with the train to ensure its ability to operate, but I assume a scenario like this would be possible.
Gman_86
Agreed. Has the concept of a pilot driver been done away with?
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Is it possible for drivers who are qualified to drive a specific loco to drive along a route they have no knowledge of providing they have a qualified person accompanying them on the footplate?

This of course would then require more crew members, some of whom would have to travel a fair distance with the train to ensure its ability to operate, but I assume a scenario like this would be possible.
Agreed. Has the concept of a pilot driver been done away with?
Lockspike
Would you be surprised if it had ? Rolling Eyes
  Lockspike Chief Commissioner

Agreed. Has the concept of a pilot driver been done away with?
Would you be surprised if it had ? Rolling Eyes
YM-Mundrabilla
Probably not. Current management thinking would object to the extra labour cost - would rather cancel the train (and lose the revenue).
  michaelgm Chief Commissioner

Engage the services of some consultants pay them mega bucks, and then say no and cancel train.
  fzr560 Chief Train Controller

Is it possible for drivers who are qualified to drive a specific loco to drive along a route they have no knowledge of providing they have a qualified person accompanying them on the footplate?

This of course would then require more crew members, some of whom would have to travel a fair distance with the train to ensure its ability to operate, but I assume a scenario like this would be possible.
Agreed. Has the concept of a pilot driver been done away with?
Lockspike
Pilots are still used regularly by a major operator in NSW. Route quals can expire within a year in some places. It is not feasible to have everybody qualified everywhere and to keep those quals up to date.
  ivahri Train Controller

Up to $5100 on Gofundme... good luck reaching $75K!

I'm sure I'm not the only one waiting for more information & less spin... you'll get more $ with more honesty.


Richard
  a6et Minister for Railways

Is it possible for drivers who are qualified to drive a specific loco to drive along a route they have no knowledge of providing they have a qualified person accompanying them on the footplate?

This of course would then require more crew members, some of whom would have to travel a fair distance with the train to ensure its ability to operate, but I assume a scenario like this would be possible.
Agreed. Has the concept of a pilot driver been done away with?
Pilots are still used regularly by a major operator in NSW. Route quals can expire within a year in some places. It is not feasible to have everybody qualified everywhere and to keep those quals up to date.
fzr560
Not sure how things work these days, but in the past there were several areas, more especially Sydney Yard and the Blue Mountains in NSW that had 6 month qualification credentials, as such one had to drive over those lines at least once in that period. the whole of the metro area itself within the areas defined as Borders for train control operations was 12 months.

The Northern line to BMD was 12 months, Short South and Illawarra was 2 years, except the Illawarra Mountain which was a 6 month requirement primarily for the up graded trains.

Many of the later day steam hauled services had crews that were only ever qualified as firemen in the regular steam days, but they had enough experience from those days to work as drivers on the various operations, I know I was permitted to work on 3 such operations as a driver, thing was that each of the trains had a locomotive inspector in the cab, as was often seen with the late Ian Thornton, who also trained firemen for heritage workings and drivers.

I would imagine, with the R class, going interstate to Victoria the road knowledge component would not be an issue for Victorian crews, but familiarity with Steam another issue, although being an oil burner would make it somewhat easier in the firing area.

Having a pilot has advantages and more especially in the area of any incident happening, and an investigation reveals the crew especially the driver has no knowledge/qualification for the area he is working and controlling a train over.

Thing is, as I said things have changed.
  michaelgm Chief Commissioner

Up to $5100 on Gofundme... good luck reaching $75K!

I'm sure I'm not the only one waiting for more information & less spin... you'll get more $ with more honesty.


Richard
ivahri
Someone who is particularly skeptical may wonder if the loco itself has had a gauge conversion performed, or just the shed road at Rothbury.Laughing
  Dave C Chief Train Controller

Location: Maitland
Unfortunately the lack of response from the original poster or anyone with some authority is disappointing and is not helping the cause. "The silence is deafening".

I hope to see this Loco operational and see lots of potential for it to be showing young and old what a R can do.

This is a prime example on how not to do things. I have no doubt with a different approach we would all be talking about the next tour not if it will ever run again.
  trainbrain Chief Commissioner

Well well well, have a look at the Steamrail Victoria release statement today, this should put all the doubters to rest, very interesting reading.
  ivahri Train Controller

Well well well, have a look at the Steamrail Victoria release statement today, this should put all the doubters to rest, very interesting reading.
trainbrain

So far $5770 has been raised out of the $75000 they said they needed...

So tell me why I shouldn't be still doubting?

Still waiting on that boiler ticket...

Just more spin & I'm very disappointed that Steamrail Victoria would now tarnish its good reputation getting into the game of spin.


Richard
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
Just more spin & I'm very disappointed that Steamrail Victoria would now tarnish its good reputation getting into the game of spin.
"ivahri"
I must say that I thought better of Steamrail. Lots of journalese and spin, not much detail, and either an ignorance of the full situation ( stays, accreditation et al), or an unwillingness to address the issues.

Steamrail; your PR is good. Don't get sucked into doing someone else's when there's been no attempt at any for years. Steamrail is a top flight preservation group; not a cheap advertising agency.
  trainbrain Chief Commissioner

Well well well, have a look at the Steamrail Victoria release statement today, this should put all the doubters to rest, very interesting reading.

So far $5770 has been raised out of the $75000 they said they needed...

So tell me why I shouldn't be still doubting?

Still waiting on that boiler ticket...

Just more spin & I'm very disappointed that Steamrail Victoria would now tarnish its good reputation getting into the game of spin.


Richard
ivahri
time will tell, as I have said previously, if you do not want to donate, that is fine. You simply make up your own mind.........
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
time will tell, as I have said previously, if you do not want to donate, that is fine. You simply make up your own mind.........
"trainbrain"
I thought it was pretty obvious that a lot of us have made our minds up long ago.
  ivahri Train Controller

Well well well, have a look at the Steamrail Victoria release statement today, this should put all the doubters to rest, very interesting reading.

So far $5770 has been raised out of the $75000 they said they needed...

So tell me why I shouldn't be still doubting?

Still waiting on that boiler ticket...

Just more spin & I'm very disappointed that Steamrail Victoria would now tarnish its good reputation getting into the game of spin.


Richard
time will tell, as I have said previously, if you do not want to donate, that is fine. You simply make up your own mind.........
trainbrain
It will, but boy it takes a stubborn bunch... they clearly have such little respect for most rail enthusiasts that they would prefer to refuse to respond to questions being asked by potential donors than get their donations.  

If you don't think that is a problem then that is a matter for you... but no they aren't getting money from me. I take the hint, they don't want my donation.



Richard
  steven_h Train Controller

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Hi all,

For anyone who wants to keep up on the progress of the loco, view their Facebook page here:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/184532572293583/

No, you don't need to be a member of Facebook.
No, you won't be tracked, followed or recorded.
Yes, you can keep your tin hat on.

Not everyone uses Railpage... so yes, we need to go and find information ourselves sometimes.

Keep the link above bookmarked and check back in every-so-often.

It might just change your minds based on the work that's actually being done!
  michaelgm Chief Commissioner

OK no tin hat for me.

Not everyone uses RP, fair comment. But suitable to use to pass the collection plate around.
It's called pooing in your nest.

Kind regards, Mick

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