Malcolm Turncoat's imploding act

 
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
Correction

What would expect ANY Australian govt do to regarding the Chinese building a base in Vanuatu? Trump will certainly do SFA.

Its a sovereign nation and Vanuatu has only minor links with Australia. Chinese have bases in places like Djibouti, ironically next door to USA and 3 other nations in the same small country.  Foreign Military bases are sources on income for local business and govt revenues, who could blame them?
So you're a supporter of Chinese military expansion into the South Pacific? I'm sure they'll be pleased to hear that.
don_dunstan
No, just a realist.

Anyway, we can all stand down as the Vanuatu govt has issued a statement saying they are not for sale.

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  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Correction

What would expect ANY Australian govt do to regarding the Chinese building a base in Vanuatu? Trump will certainly do SFA.

Its a sovereign nation and Vanuatu has only minor links with Australia. Chinese have bases in places like Djibouti, ironically next door to USA and 3 other nations in the same small country.  Foreign Military bases are sources on income for local business and govt revenues, who could blame them?
So you're a supporter of Chinese military expansion into the South Pacific? I'm sure they'll be pleased to hear that.
No, just a realist.

Anyway, we can all stand down as the Vanuatu govt has issued a statement saying they are not for sale.
RTT_Rules
'Anyway, we can all stand down as the Vanuatu govt has issued a statement saying they are not for sale.'

Unlike the Port of Darwin which OUR GOVERNMENT sold/leased (whatever) to the Chinese.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Malcolm Turdball is a terrible Prime Minister - and a terrible liar (Australian):

The Prime Minister attacked The Australian yesterday when asked at a press conference whether Mr Dutton had canvassed lowering the immigration rate in cabinet, saying: “The story on the front page of — I’m so glad you asked that — the story on the front page of The Australian today about migration and the cabinet is completely untrue. It’s false. It’s completely untrue.”

[However] three ministers present in a meeting last year have confirmed Home Affairs Minister Peter Dutton proposed a cut to the immigration rate but it was knocked back.

It is understood the proposed cut was 20,000 — taking the permanent migration rate from 190,000 to 170,000.

Why does it matter that Dutton proposed a very modest cut to immigration and was knocked back? Does he want the public to think that they don't argue about anything in cabinet, it's all about Malcolm making pronouncements and all the ministers just listen obediently?
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
No, just a realist.

Anyway, we can all stand down as the Vanuatu govt has issued a statement saying they are not for sale.
RTT_Rules
Oh that's a relief. It's just economic colonisation then, not military (Fairfax):

The Chinese government has spent hundreds of millions of dollars in grants and loans for buildings and infrastructure in Vanuatu over the past decade. As well as the $19 million convention centre, Beijing has given the country new prime minister's offices and has built, with concessional loans, a $114 million wharf to take large ships and a $37 million government IT system.
Beijing last week announced it would pay for and build a new official house for the Vanuatu president, a new Finance Ministry building and an extension on the Foreign Ministry building at a reported total cost of about $36 million.

They're also doing the same to Tonga. You don't think they're going to ask for something in exchange some time down the track?
  Groundrelay Chief Commissioner

Location: Surrounded by Trolls!
They're also doing the same to Tonga. You don't think they're going to ask for something in exchange some time down the track?
don_dunstan
21st Century colonisation. That's reality Don.
This little British outpost will find itself in increasingly uncomfortable waters.

Question is what are we prepared to do about it.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Question is what are we prepared to do about it.
Groundrelay
Malcolm will give them a jolly good thrashing with a wet lettuce leaf -
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
The extremely sensitive Chinese Politburo have cracked a fruity over Malcolm Turnbull's slightly harder language about them (The Telegraph):

CHINA has gone cold on Malcolm Turnbull’s government over recent anti-China rhetoric, reportedly refusing to grant visas to senior ministers.

Prime Minister Turnbull this morning admitted there was “some tension” in the Australia-China relationship after his government introduced laws to crackdown on foreign interference and espionage.

But he refused to outright say his ministers were having problems gaining visas to enter China.

“I wouldn’t say they’ve been declined,” he told Melbourne radio 3AW in an interview where he appeared to select his words very carefully...

“All I would say is there has clearly been some misunderstandings and mischaracterisations of our foreign interference legislation in some of the Chinese media,” Mr Turnbull said.

Malcolm said absolutely nothing offensive in my opinion: All he did was warn about the growing influence of Chinese government operatives in our universities (which is a statement of fact) and commit Australia to the so-called "Freedom of Navigation" exercises in the South China Sea. If they're really so sensitive about these small things imagine how angry they'll be if there's ever a real and valid point of disagreement? These communist countries don't like anything that could possibly threaten their legitimacy - and Malcolm will never be able to appease them.
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
Correction

What would expect ANY Australian govt do to regarding the Chinese building a base in Vanuatu? Trump will certainly do SFA.

Its a sovereign nation and Vanuatu has only minor links with Australia. Chinese have bases in places like Djibouti, ironically next door to USA and 3 other nations in the same small country.  Foreign Military bases are sources on income for local business and govt revenues, who could blame them?
So you're a supporter of Chinese military expansion into the South Pacific? I'm sure they'll be pleased to hear that.
don_dunstan
The United States is an empire in decline, as much as some of you shall hate to hear it, that is the truth. I believe that this century is going to be dominated by China and to the latter extent India. RTT_Rules isn't supporting Chinese Expansionism he is just stating the truth. The Americans fly close to Chinese territory no one rises an eyebrow, when the Chinese do it 'DEM COMMIES ARE ATTEMPTING TO START WW3'. I know it sounds like I am sucking up to china Don as much as I despise Neo stalinism, that is the truth of these changing times.
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

Correction

What would expect ANY Australian govt do to regarding the Chinese building a base in Vanuatu? Trump will certainly do SFA.

Its a sovereign nation and Vanuatu has only minor links with Australia. Chinese have bases in places like Djibouti, ironically next door to USA and 3 other nations in the same small country.  Foreign Military bases are sources on income for local business and govt revenues, who could blame them?
So you're a supporter of Chinese military expansion into the South Pacific? I'm sure they'll be pleased to hear that.
The United States is an empire in decline, as much as some of you shall hate to hear it, that is the truth. I believe that this century is going to be dominated by China and to the latter extent India. RTT_Rules isn't supporting Chinese Expansionism he is just stating the truth. The Americans fly close to Chinese territory no one rises an eyebrow, when the Chinese do it 'DEM COMMIES ARE ATTEMPTING TO START WW3'. I know it sounds like I am sucking up to china Don as much as I despise Neo stalinism, that is the truth of these changing times.
Dangersdan707
I wouldn't write off the USA right now. It's defense forces are still the most powerful in the world. In my view the Chinese will not take on the USA at the moment because the USA would absolutely trash the Chinese in an all out conflagration from which I doubt the Chinese would recover. Note how the Chinese have actually backed down in their rhetoric about Trumps stupid tariffs.

As for the Russians, no chance they will take on the USA. Putin might be full of BS but he is sensible enough not to commit national suicide.

On the economic front the USA might have huge debt levels but seems to have the resources to keep its head above water.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
Correction

What would expect ANY Australian govt do to regarding the Chinese building a base in Vanuatu? Trump will certainly do SFA.

Its a sovereign nation and Vanuatu has only minor links with Australia. Chinese have bases in places like Djibouti, ironically next door to USA and 3 other nations in the same small country.  Foreign Military bases are sources on income for local business and govt revenues, who could blame them?
So you're a supporter of Chinese military expansion into the South Pacific? I'm sure they'll be pleased to hear that.
No, just a realist.

Anyway, we can all stand down as the Vanuatu govt has issued a statement saying they are not for sale.
'Anyway, we can all stand down as the Vanuatu govt has issued a statement saying they are not for sale.'

Unlike the Port of Darwin which OUR GOVERNMENT sold/leased (whatever) to the Chinese.
China is one of the largest sources of consumer good for Australian import trade and also exports for Australia. The Chinese own a number of things in Australia, houses, business, farms, mines....the small port of Darwin threatens us how? (Its actually a genuine question)

Remember the anti-Japanese rhetoric when they starting Mining coal here?
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
Correction

What would expect ANY Australian govt do to regarding the Chinese building a base in Vanuatu? Trump will certainly do SFA.

Its a sovereign nation and Vanuatu has only minor links with Australia. Chinese have bases in places like Djibouti, ironically next door to USA and 3 other nations in the same small country.  Foreign Military bases are sources on income for local business and govt revenues, who could blame them?
So you're a supporter of Chinese military expansion into the South Pacific? I'm sure they'll be pleased to hear that.
The United States is an empire in decline, as much as some of you shall hate to hear it, that is the truth. I believe that this century is going to be dominated by China and to the latter extent India. RTT_Rules isn't supporting Chinese Expansionism he is just stating the truth. The Americans fly close to Chinese territory no one rises an eyebrow, when the Chinese do it 'DEM COMMIES ARE ATTEMPTING TO START WW3'. I know it sounds like I am sucking up to china Don as much as I despise Neo stalinism, that is the truth of these changing times.
I wouldn't write off the USA right now. It's defense forces are still the most powerful in the world. In my view the Chinese will not take on the USA at the moment because the USA would absolutely trash the Chinese in an all out conflagration from which I doubt the Chinese would recover. Note how the Chinese have actually backed down in their rhetoric about Trumps stupid tariffs.

As for the Russians, no chance they will take on the USA. Putin might be full of BS but he is sensible enough not to commit national suicide.

On the economic front the USA might have huge debt levels but seems to have the resources to keep its head above water.
nswtrains
Military spending by country

USA   $1700B  GDP 2.2%
China  $700B    1.9%
Russia $70B      5.3%
KSA     $64B     10%
India    $55B     2.5%

Aussie  $24B     2.0%

Aircraft carrier wise the
- USA Military is by far the strongest in the world, having around 10 active carriers, all big mothers ~100kt.
- Russia one small one, ~55kt, and they can barely afford to keep it running.
- Chinese did a sneaky move and got Russia's other two half bulk hulls for change via Ukraine and finished them.  

If you want to attack Australia you need portable attack force, the Chinese currently don't have this capability unless you expect them to arrive via Airbus/Boeing.


In long-term if China wanted Australia, there is little we can do about it unless we get help or go Nuclear. So MT's wet lettuce approach is about as useful as it gets so what on earth would you expect any Australian PM to do if Vanuatu had indeed allowed a Chinese military base to be built? Note I didn't say I support the Chinese, I just don't support the pub rhetoric BS as it makes no sense.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
In long-term if China wanted Australia, there is little we can do about it unless we get help or go Nuclear. So MT's wet lettuce approach is about as useful as it gets so what on earth would you expect any Australian PM to do if Vanuatu had indeed allowed a Chinese military base to be built? Note I didn't say I support the Chinese, I just don't support the pub rhetoric BS as it makes no sense.
RTT_Rules
They could want Australia for "lebensraum" - indeed, there wouldn't be much that we could do about it apart from the fact that we're already a chattel of the United States in which case we might expect them to intervene.

Malcolm loves Chinese soft power and ignores it permeating Australian society as much as he can. But Chinese hard military power is a totally different creature and he's obliged to speak out against it for the sake of ANZUS.

Seriously though, if the People's Liberation Army wanted to turn the newly-acquired Port of Darwin what could we do about it apart from appeal to the United States for help?
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
China is one of the largest sources of consumer good for Australian import trade and also exports for Australia. The Chinese own a number of things in Australia, houses, business, farms, mines....the small port of Darwin threatens us how? (Its actually a genuine question)

Remember the anti-Japanese rhetoric when they starting Mining coal here?
RTT_Rules
Landbridge are the new owners and they have very, very close relations with the People's Liberation Army as many of the board members and management are ex-PLA. There are extremely close relationships between the Politburo and the corporate sector over there, you're never sure what you're getting when you let their companies invest and what the ultimate goal is. It's the reason Huawei was banned from tendering for the NBN under Gillard (and the ban was continued under Abbott).
  Greensleeves Chief Commissioner

Location: If it isn't obvious by now, it should be.
Being reported today by the Daily Telegraph that Turnbull has a $1m personal stake in an investment fund that boasts about profiting from the demise of Australian big businesses.

Unfortunately the article's behind a paywall so I can't link to it...
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
In long-term if China wanted Australia, there is little we can do about it unless we get help or go Nuclear. So MT's wet lettuce approach is about as useful as it gets so what on earth would you expect any Australian PM to do if Vanuatu had indeed allowed a Chinese military base to be built? Note I didn't say I support the Chinese, I just don't support the pub rhetoric BS as it makes no sense.
They could want Australia for "lebensraum" - indeed, there wouldn't be much that we could do about it apart from the fact that we're already a chattel of the United States in which case we might expect them to intervene.

Malcolm loves Chinese soft power and ignores it permeating Australian society as much as he can. But Chinese hard military power is a totally different creature and he's obliged to speak out against it for the sake of ANZUS.

Seriously though, if the People's Liberation Army wanted to turn the newly-acquired Port of Darwin what could we do about it apart from appeal to the United States for help?
don_dunstan
The Port of Darwin is not a communications company so their leverage to spy by owning the port is no more than really not owning it,

Does owning it allow the Chinese to establish a military base or use it for military purposes that involves Chinese Military hardware from accessing it? I very much doubt it. Countries need permission to move a warship or military hardware of any significant kind into a foreign port, regardless of who owns it.
  Groundrelay Chief Commissioner

Location: Surrounded by Trolls!
If China wanted this country to feel pain they wouldn't need to resort to military action.

China has an expansionist agenda but it's much subtler that the West's shock and awe approach.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
If China wanted this country to feel pain they wouldn't need to resort to military action.

China has an expansionist agenda but it's much subtler that the West's shock and awe approach.
Groundrelay
We have everything we need to support ourselves right here - don't believe the rubbish from our politicians that we need them.

Australians in China have no rights at all - they can't buy property and they're incredibly restricted in what business they can conduct and with who. Chinese nationals with money can come over here and pretty much do what they want; don't tell me that those people are going to submit to their communist government if push came to shove (a la Hawke's granting of citizenship to every Chinese student in Australia in 1989).

China thinks it can continue to rule over the Chinese ethic diaspora overseas including in this country - they have another thing coming.
  Groundrelay Chief Commissioner

Location: Surrounded by Trolls!
It's simplistic to think we can just disconnect from China.  Few countries don't use China to make stuff for them. Even if we stopped importing from China, we'd still be buying products with components made in China.

Stopping imports restricts our export markets. Even the USSR wasn't a closed economy.

Problem is no one in government was planning for the new economy two decades ago and they're now pretending the old one will re-materialise.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
It's simplistic to think we can just disconnect from China.  Few countries don't use China to make stuff for them. Even if we stopped importing from China, we'd still be buying products with components made in China.

Stopping imports restricts our export markets. Even the USSR wasn't a closed economy.

Problem is no one in government was planning for the new economy two decades ago and they're now pretending the old one will re-materialise.
Groundrelay
They only have to stop our petrol/oil products being shipped out of Singapore and we'd be out of fuel within 44 days - something I read recently. No redundancy in our supply systems, we'd so run out of a lot of things.

We shouldn't let our fear of being economically punished by them stop us from speaking our minds. I for one am glad to be living in a country where I don't have to worry about knock on the door in the middle of the night just for posting something like this. Chinese nationals do not have the freedoms that I do; they don't have the right to call out their own leaders as frauds - I do here regularly.

If we get punished by the Chinese for speaking our minds then so be it.
  lsrailfan Chief Commissioner

Location: Somewhere you're not
Did everyone hear the new Deputy PM Michael McCormack, referrer to the Treasurer as Santa Claus, suggesting that he will be handing out "bags of goodies" come budget time? oh yes, and I am the tooth fairy as well!! Rolling EyesRolling Eyes
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Did everyone hear the new Deputy PM Michael McCormack, referrer to the Treasurer as Santa Claus, suggesting that he will be handing out "bags of goodies" come budget time? oh yes, and I am the tooth fairy as well!! Rolling EyesRolling Eyes
lsrailfan
I don't think they give a damn about the budget deficit any more - why would they, there's an election to be fought for God's sake!
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
The Chinese Politburo gets more pointed about Australia not towing the line, telling us that we haven't done enough to promote 'trust' between the two counties (The Australian):

China’s ambassador to Australia has warned that the relationship between the two countries has been marred by “systematic, irresponsible and negative remarks” about China, and trading ties could be damaged if the situation is not repaired.

In a frank interview with The Australian at the Chinese embassy in Canberra, Cheng Jingye said Australia needed to do more to “increase mutual trust” in its ties with China.

“If there is a growing lack of mutual trust, in the long run it may have some undesirable impact (on trade relations with China),” Mr Cheng said.

This is an open threat to our nation: Keep your collective mouths shut about our soft-power takeover of your nation or we'll punish you by putting tariffs on your products. There's a crisis coming, no doubt in my mind. But do we really need to crawl up to that disgusting communist dictatorship and allow them to progressively undermine our own institutions?

Malcolm immediately turns to jelly:

Speaking in London, where he is attending the CHOGM summit, Malcolm Turnbull played down Mr Cheng’s threat, with an assurance that Australia and China shared a strong relationship that was getting better...

“From time to time there are differences in the relationship, if there are ups and downs, it’s from a very, very high base,” the Prime Minister said.

Spineless. He's terrified of the ramifications if we don't do as they say.

I say: Bugger off brutal murderous illegitimate communists. Go and bully someone else.
  michaelgm Chief Commissioner

Don, Mal is spineless and terrified of the ramifications. As well he should be. Between a rock and a hard place. It's been predicted  for sometime Oz will need to choose China or the US, appears that is getting nearer.
No doubt China could manipulate the property and resource markets causing chaos. Or as mentioned previously a fuel blockade we'd be on our knees in weeks.
Tell them to bigger off as suggested, well I don't fancy living in a cave and hunting my dinner.

Isn't diplomacy about middle ground?
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Tell them to bigger off as suggested, well I don't fancy living in a cave and hunting my dinner.
michaelgm
There is a belief that we need to Chinese or we will fall into some horrible pit that we won't be able to get out of. This is rubbish: we coped perfectly without the Chinese for decades leading up to to the 21st century. What we don't need is to lose our history of the rule of law, our courts system and our democratic processes. I know that it's not fashionable to defend our system at the moment but there's no way I would trade what we have for their system - not under any circumstances. And if push comes to shove which I believe it will do soon - then we may well have to suffer the wrath of the Poliburo. So be it.

We will survive.
  speedemon08 Mary

Location: I think by now you should have figured it out
Tell them to bigger off as suggested, well I don't fancy living in a cave and hunting my dinner.
There is a belief that we need to Chinese or we will fall into some horrible pit that we won't be able to get out of. This is rubbish: we coped perfectly without the Chinese for decades leading up to to the 21st century. What we don't need is to lose our history of the rule of law, our courts system and our democratic processes. I know that it's not fashionable to defend our system at the moment but there's no way I would trade what we have for their system - not under any circumstances. And if push comes to shove which I believe it will do soon - then we may well have to suffer the wrath of the Poliburo. So be it.

We will survive.
don_dunstan
We were dependant on the UK and US before that, c'mon.

Also 1850's Chinese Gold miners say whaaat

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