Turnbull announces $400m Port Botany rail upgrade project

 

News article: Turnbull announces $400m Port Botany rail upgrade project

Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull has announced a $400 million upgrade to Sydney’s rail network as part of the $24 billion infrastructure package to be included in tomorrow’s budget.

  x31 Chief Commissioner

Location: gallifrey
Represents a big vote of confidence in the Port of Botany and not much confidence in the Port of Melbourne who has poor rail access.  I can see now how traffic will leave the Port of Melbourne and be managed via Sydney which is what you get when you have a government hell bent on holding rail back in Victoria

Turnbull announces $400m Port Botany rail upgrade project

Sponsored advertisement

  fzr560 Chief Train Controller

Represents a big vote of confidence in the Port of Botany and not much confidence in the Port of Melbourne who has poor rail access.  I can see now how traffic will leave the Port of Melbourne and be managed via Sydney which is what you get when you have a government hell bent on holding rail back in Victoria

Turnbull announces $400m Port Botany rail upgrade project
x31
Please tell me they're joking. Leightonfield is 1200m and now they want to build another obsolete loop beside it. I'd have thought that 2000m should be the minimum to allow 1800m trains the ability to go in the hole at something over walking pace.
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
Represents a big vote of confidence in the Port of Botany and not much confidence in the Port of Melbourne who has poor rail access.  I can see now how traffic will leave the Port of Melbourne and be managed via Sydney which is what you get when you have a government hell bent on holding rail back in Victoria

Turnbull announces $400m Port Botany rail upgrade project
Please tell me they're joking. Leightonfield is 1200m and now they want to build another obsolete loop beside it. I'd have thought that 2000m should be the minimum to allow 1800m trains the ability to go in the hole at something over walking pace.
fzr560
They dont run interstate length trains on this branch.  This is for port shuttles only.
  fzr560 Chief Train Controller

Represents a big vote of confidence in the Port of Botany and not much confidence in the Port of Melbourne who has poor rail access.  I can see now how traffic will leave the Port of Melbourne and be managed via Sydney which is what you get when you have a government hell bent on holding rail back in Victoria

Turnbull announces $400m Port Botany rail upgrade project
Please tell me they're joking. Leightonfield is 1200m and now they want to build another obsolete loop beside it. I'd have thought that 2000m should be the minimum to allow 1800m trains the ability to go in the hole at something over walking pace.
They dont run interstate length trains on this branch.  This is for port shuttles only.
james.au
As per the article, they are building a 1400m crossing loop between Warwick Farm and Cabramatta on the Southern Sydney Freight Line. Botany is the destination for trains from many locations in regional  NSW. Does this fit your definition of port shuttles?
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
"and rail tracks will be built across the freight line"
I hope they are grade separated!

BG
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

Represents a big vote of confidence in the Port of Botany and not much confidence in the Port of Melbourne who has poor rail access.  I can see now how traffic will leave the Port of Melbourne and be managed via Sydney which is what you get when you have a government hell bent on holding rail back in Victoria

Turnbull announces $400m Port Botany rail upgrade project
Please tell me they're joking. Leightonfield is 1200m and now they want to build another obsolete loop beside it. I'd have thought that 2000m should be the minimum to allow 1800m trains the ability to go in the hole at something over walking pace.
They dont run interstate length trains on this branch.  This is for port shuttles only.
As per the article, they are building a 1400m crossing loop between Warwick Farm and Cabramatta on the Southern Sydney Freight Line. Botany is the destination for trains from many locations in regional  NSW. Does this fit your definition of port shuttles?
fzr560

Actually Newcastle and Port kembla are the destinations of most trains from regional areas. The other destination is either chullora or enfield. With shuttles running from their into botany. Only a very few trains run direct to botany from regional areas.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Fletchers would be one i suspect?
  fzr560 Chief Train Controller

Fletchers would be one i suspect?
bevans
Yeah both(Fletchers and Kelso) of SSRs box trains are straight to port. Both of Freightliners are straight to port, Crawfords is straight to port and Qube is pretty hard to figure out but i'd guess there's probably a couple that go straight in without mucking about. PN generally go to Enfield, pick up a couple of wagons, take a trip train number and keep going. Surprisingly, the Harefield now runs to Cooks River with the boxes trucked the rest of the way.
  fzr560 Chief Train Controller

Represents a big vote of confidence in the Port of Botany and not much confidence in the Port of Melbourne who has poor rail access.  I can see now how traffic will leave the Port of Melbourne and be managed via Sydney which is what you get when you have a government hell bent on holding rail back in Victoria

Turnbull announces $400m Port Botany rail upgrade project
Please tell me they're joking. Leightonfield is 1200m and now they want to build another obsolete loop beside it. I'd have thought that 2000m should be the minimum to allow 1800m trains the ability to go in the hole at something over walking pace.
They dont run interstate length trains on this branch.  This is for port shuttles only.
As per the article, they are building a 1400m crossing loop between Warwick Farm and Cabramatta on the Southern Sydney Freight Line. Botany is the destination for trains from many locations in regional  NSW. Does this fit your definition of port shuttles?

Actually Newcastle and Port kembla are the destinations of most trains from regional areas. The other destination is either chullora or enfield. With shuttles running from their into botany. Only a very few trains run direct to botany from regional areas.
simstrain
So, you're saying that bulk coal and grain doesn't go to Botany. I never would have guessed. I suppose picking that stuff up with a forklift may have been a bit time consuming. I wonder if the feds know about this. Maybe they can save their $400m.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

No I am not saying that the money shouldn't be spent. The 400 million is needed to duplicate because of the increase in Sydney traffic that is going to occur.
  M636C Minister for Railways

"They don't run interstate length trains on this branch.  This is for port shuttles only."


Leightonfield is on the Sydney Southern Freight line between Cabramatta and Chullora. Many of lsrailfan's photos on the NSW Sightings thread are taken there. Many very long intermodal trains run through there, fortunately often crossing much shorter trains like the aggregate trains.

An extra loop, even one less than 1800 m, is needed on this busy line.

Peter
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
Represents a big vote of confidence in the Port of Botany and not much confidence in the Port of Melbourne who has poor rail access.  I can see now how traffic will leave the Port of Melbourne and be managed via Sydney which is what you get when you have a government hell bent on holding rail back in Victoria

Turnbull announces $400m Port Botany rail upgrade project
Please tell me they're joking. Leightonfield is 1200m and now they want to build another obsolete loop beside it. I'd have thought that 2000m should be the minimum to allow 1800m trains the ability to go in the hole at something over walking pace.
They dont run interstate length trains on this branch.  This is for port shuttles only.
As per the article, they are building a 1400m crossing loop between Warwick Farm and Cabramatta on the Southern Sydney Freight Line. Botany is the destination for trains from many locations in regional  NSW. Does this fit your definition of port shuttles?
fzr560
INTERSTATE - which in ARTC speak is 1800m or more.

You're referring to INTRASTATE which are still port shuttles.

Fletchers are probably the only train that comes close to 1800m (@Bevan Wall might be able to give us a length)

I suspect the majority of the trains on this length wont need to be 1800m - the port probably also cant handle them as efficiently as say shorter length ones.  So lets build the current loop as the length of what is needed and don't overspend.  By all means, do the planning, its pretty easy to lengthen loops later on if the land has been appropriately reserved, but spend that money down the track, not now.
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
So, you're saying that bulk coal and grain doesn't go to Botany. I never would have guessed. I suppose picking that stuff up with a forklift may have been a bit time consuming. I wonder if the feds know about this. Maybe they can save their $400m.
fzr560
On this comment I am lost.

Bulk coal and grain go to Newcastle and Kembla.  Cars go to Kembla AFAIK too.  Botany is substantially containers, with some break bulk cargo perhaps?
  mikesyd Chief Commissioner

Location: Lurking
I gather that the new work will be from the current end of double track just before Robey Street to Botany Yard - it 'looks like' the bridges on the single track portion are double track width and hopefully the new one being built beside the Airport will be as well.

So the duplication gets part of the money, and a new loop on the SSFL is thrown into the same funding bucket.

EDIT - The O'Riordan Street bridge has abutments, but needs a span on the eastern side.
  mikesyd Chief Commissioner

Location: Lurking
So, you're saying that bulk coal and grain doesn't go to Botany. I never would have guessed. I suppose picking that stuff up with a forklift may have been a bit time consuming. I wonder if the feds know about this. Maybe they can save their $400m.
On this comment I am lost.

Bulk coal and grain go to Newcastle and Kembla.  Cars go to Kembla AFAIK too.  Botany is substantially containers, with some break bulk cargo perhaps?
james.au
If Cars means motor vehicles - NO - I think that all imported motor vehicles that arrive on RO/RO ships leave the port on the back of a truck these days. Those that arrive inside a Container may take a train ride while still inside the Container.

But if you have different 'Cars' in mind, then I withdraw my comment.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

From what I understand and just discussed with a colleague who works for the ARTC. The loop at Leightonfield might be restricted in length by signalling rather then the actual distance between the 2 points. The sidings also play a part in this issue as well. Glenfield is definetly 1800 metres.

There is a little over 2km's between chester hill road and woodville road. The points at the woodville road end are almost right at the bridge and the points at the other end is about 2 platform lengths from chester hill road or 350 metres. That should give a total loop length of 1650m. Still not 1800m but certainly not the 1300 metres as mentioned.

In any case most traffic on the SSFL is not of the 1800 metre variety and there is always the option outside of peak hour to run trains on the normal main south line as well.
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
So, you're saying that bulk coal and grain doesn't go to Botany. I never would have guessed. I suppose picking that stuff up with a forklift may have been a bit time consuming. I wonder if the feds know about this. Maybe they can save their $400m.
On this comment I am lost.

Bulk coal and grain go to Newcastle and Kembla.  Cars go to Kembla AFAIK too.  Botany is substantially containers, with some break bulk cargo perhaps?
If Cars means motor vehicles - NO - I think that all imported motor vehicles that arrive on RO/RO ships leave the port on the back of a truck these days. Those that arrive inside a Container may take a train ride while still inside the Container.

But if you have different 'Cars' in mind, then I withdraw my comment.
mikesyd
Im talking about which port takes them, im not commenting on whether they get there via road or rail.  I have it in my mind that Kembla is taking more and more of the auto import trade these days?  I could be wrong though - i havent seen data to back this.
  mikesyd Chief Commissioner

Location: Lurking
Yes, most imported motor vehicles arrive at Port Kembla. Check out the satellite view on Google Maps and you will see them.
  Transtopic Deputy Commissioner

Location: Sydney
Governments of both persuasions have been announcing duplication of the Botany Line for a decade or more.  I wonder whether it will ever happen.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

Governments of both persuasions have been announcing duplication of the Botany Line for a decade or more.  I wonder whether it will ever happen.
Transtopic

To be honest it isn't that hard to achieve and the first stage with an extension of wentworth avenue and new rail bridge has already started.

Sponsored advertisement

Subscribers: fzr560, Transtopic

Display from:   

Quick Reply

We've disabled Quick Reply for this thread as it was last updated more than six months ago.