PN Scrappings at Werris Creek

 
  Raichase Captain Rant!

Location: Sydney, NSW
That aside, could someone explain how it is that all manner of Alco's (specifically 48's as there's heaps of them there) and anything also seen in Candy and Tuscan livery hasn't been run through with the gas axe before now?? Seriously, some of them look like they've been there long enough to be rusted to the rails by now.
davesvline
Actually, over the last couple of years, a significant portion of the 48 Class fleet has been cut up. Have a poke around the Railpage Locomotive Database to get the exact numbers, but there's only about eighteen remaining in Pacific Nationals fleet, with another eighteen (?) with GrainCorp and a few with Qube, Greentrains and JRW... From a class of 165, there's not much left!

Most of the X class have the class marker light lenses missing. Whats with that - souvenirs for someone in the know??
davesvline
I'd assume they've been pinched by people with access to the locos - when I was recently up there, I noticed all of the number boards missing and the number plates under the cab windows had followed.

Chopping up seemingly useful EMDs, when there's Alcos a plenty worthy of chopping first. Go figure. But hey, its their property, their choice I guess.
davesvline

You've got it right with your comment "seemingly useful". Do we all remember what happened to the first series X Class when they were roughly this age (if not younger?). They were withdrawn and rebuilt. The second series X Class are following the A Class into retirement as they're no longer required. That's how it's always been with the railways, new locos come in and push the old ones out. All the new locos for coal have pushed older locos onto lesser tasks, which (when combined with the loss of contracts) have helped PN rationalize their fleet.

As for the old Alcos, PN don't have any 80 Class in mainline use anymore, they're relegated to shunting. Even then, with enough 81s available, the 80s have been removed from most major yards, or they are parked up as backup units. They're not even front line shunters anymore. I think you'll find only a couple of 80 Class still in service, probably the same number as X Class running in Victoria! So it's not like PN are persisting with Alcos just to upset the Victorian gunzels...

A pity preservation groups weren't given a giga gig to aquire, even if there was a legally binding contract put in place stipulating that the loco couldn't be used by a PN competitor. Its that, or no deal. Surely cant be that difficult to put contracts like this in place, if in fact the scrapping's objective is to keep them from competitors (or tax write off). Also probably explains why the useful ones get chopped first. Regards
Somebody
But do you know for sure that preservation groups were not given any opportunity? Asciano have sold two 73 Class to Oberon Tarana Heritage Railway, and two 49 Class to Lachlan Valley Railway. It seems a bit wrong to point the blame at Pacific National for "refusing" to allow their locos to be preserved, when perhaps they were made available, but the preservation societies were unable to stump up the asking price? I don't blame the company for not offering a discount, their duty is to their shareholders, not to the railway enthusiasts of Australia...

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  Dutchman Station Staff

Hi everyone.
I'm going to rebirth this thread, I found with the help of my friend Mr Google.
My question is.
People complaining about loco's getting scrapped.
But how many people are prepared to put there hand in their pocket to save some of these loco's?
Get back to me if you want shares in a couple of X class, 80's currently sitting at Werris Creek.
Thank you
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
As much as I would love to save those locos, your comment seems dodgy.
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
As much as I would love to save those locos, your comment seems dodgy.
  Dutchman Station Staff

As much as I would love to save those locos, your comment seems dodgy.
Dangersdan707
Yes I agree, seems very dodgy.

But the question remains.
How many people are willing to save some loco's?
I don't want your bank account details, just a show of hands (figuratively speaking) will do.
  neillfarmer Chief Train Controller

You cannot save everything. We should start with the most important and then work down. I suspect that there is insufficient real ($) interest in any of the WC locos. The project to save CL17 (CLP10) is having enough trouble. The scrap value of a loco is still a sizable sum.
Neill Farmer
  MetroFemme Assistant Commissioner

PN could always donate the locos in an attempt to save their brand.
  fzr560 Chief Train Controller

PN could always donate the locos in an attempt to save their brand.
MetroFemme
Because forums like this one are full of prospective customers. I'm not big on cliche's but "in full, on time" at the best possible price are the things that customers are interested in.
  michaelgm Chief Commissioner

frz560, just buzz words/acronyms, DIFOT, delivered in full on time.
  fzr560 Chief Train Controller

frz560, just buzz words/acronyms, DIFOT, delivered in full on time.
michaelgm
Buzz words/acronyms and maybe even "cliches". Whatever you call it, it is of more interest to customers than what one of their suppliers does with their rubbish.
  Dutchman Station Staff

You cannot save everything. We should start with the most important and then work down. I suspect that there is insufficient real ($) interest in any of the WC locos. The project to save CL17 (CLP10) is having enough trouble. The scrap value of a loco is still a sizable sum.
Neill Farmer
neillfarmer

Your right, we can't save everything.
But who decides whats the most important?
Do you decide?
Do I decide?
What's important to you, may not be important to me, and vice versa.
Do we just think, no one else is interested, just give up on saving anything?
Or do we ask, is anyone else interested?
I have never seen CL17 in person, so I have no connection to it, and little reason to donate. Unless I want to save everything.
Where as the X class, 80 class, and 48 class, I have had a long involvement with, photographed, and sometimes even touched them, so to me the desire to save one or more of these loco's, holds real ($) interest for me.
If there is anything I have learnt from life, it is that you can "Suspect" you think you know the answer, but in reality, what you suspect and what the facts are, can sometimes be very different.
I suspect that there "MAYBE" some people, who like me feel that there is real ($) interest is saving 1 or more of these loco's.
And that is what I am trying to gauge.
  Greensleeves Chief Commissioner

Location: If it isn't obvious by now, it should be.
I suspect many railfans world wide would choose CLP10 as more significant than an X or 48 due to it being the very last bulldog nosed EMD built anywhere in the world.

And I just have to ask, do you know who actually owns the X's at Werris Creek (45, 46 and 52)? Because I'll give you a hint: it's not PN...
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
And I just have to ask, do you know who actually owns the X's at Werris Creek (45, 46 and 52)? Because I'll give you a hint: it's not PN...
Greensleeves
Per wiki, Ettamogah...
  Greensleeves Chief Commissioner

Location: If it isn't obvious by now, it should be.
And I just have to ask, do you know who actually owns the X's at Werris Creek (45, 46 and 52)? Because I'll give you a hint: it's not PN...
Per wiki, Ettamogah...
james.au

Yep
  Dutchman Station Staff

I suspect many railfans world wide would choose CLP10 as more significant than an X or 48 due to it being the very last bulldog nosed EMD built anywhere in the world.

And I just have to ask, do you know who actually owns the X's at Werris Creek (45, 46 and 52)? Because I'll give you a hint: it's not PN...
Greensleeves
Well, since as stated earlier by Neill Farmer that "The project to save CL17 (CLP10) is having enough trouble". I suspect that many railfans don't feel that the very last bulldog nosed EMD built anywhere in the world, is significant enough to warrant putting their hand in there pocket.
Since I have been unable to get close enough to the X class at the right angle to see the numbers, I did not know the identity of the loco's present, but thank you for letting me know the numbers, it is of great help.
But then I ask.
If your not interested in helping to save a loco or two, then why comment?
Why be so negative?
You know the old saying, If you have nothing good to say, don't say anything at all.
I suspect my efforts to find people interested in trying to save a piece of history from this site, has been a complete waste of time, much like unhelpful comments.
  Greensleeves Chief Commissioner

Location: If it isn't obvious by now, it should be.
I suspect many railfans world wide would choose CLP10 as more significant than an X or 48 due to it being the very last bulldog nosed EMD built anywhere in the world.

And I just have to ask, do you know who actually owns the X's at Werris Creek (45, 46 and 52)? Because I'll give you a hint: it's not PN...
Well, since as stated earlier by Neill Farmer that "The project to save CL17 (CLP10) is having enough trouble". I suspect that many railfans don't feel that the very last bulldog nosed EMD built anywhere in the world, is significant enough to warrant putting their hand in there pocket.
Since I have been unable to get close enough to the X class at the right angle to see the numbers, I did not know the identity of the loco's present, but thank you for letting me know the numbers, it is of great help.
But then I ask.
If your not interested in helping to save a loco or two, then why comment?
Why be so negative?
You know the old saying, If you have nothing good to say, don't say anything at all.
I suspect my efforts to find people interested in trying to save a piece of history from this site, has been a complete waste of time, much like unhelpful comments.
Dutchman

I never said I wasn't interested in saving locos but thanks for the assumption. I have donated to both the CLP10 fundraiser and the one towards getting an ICE radio for R766. If it's a legitimate cause and a realistic goal, them I'm happy to chip in. If details on what I'm being asked to donate to are scarce or non-existant, then I won't be.

Oh, and where was I negative? Given the topic at hand is 'saving' the X's from PN, I thought it prudent to query that those interested were actually aware that PN sold them on.
  Dutchman Station Staff

I suspect many railfans world wide would choose CLP10 as more significant than an X or 48 due to it being the very last bulldog nosed EMD built anywhere in the world.

And I just have to ask, do you know who actually owns the X's at Werris Creek (45, 46 and 52)? Because I'll give you a hint: it's not PN...
Well, since as stated earlier by Neill Farmer that "The project to save CL17 (CLP10) is having enough trouble". I suspect that many railfans don't feel that the very last bulldog nosed EMD built anywhere in the world, is significant enough to warrant putting their hand in there pocket.
Since I have been unable to get close enough to the X class at the right angle to see the numbers, I did not know the identity of the loco's present, but thank you for letting me know the numbers, it is of great help.
But then I ask.
If your not interested in helping to save a loco or two, then why comment?
Why be so negative?
You know the old saying, If you have nothing good to say, don't say anything at all.
I suspect my efforts to find people interested in trying to save a piece of history from this site, has been a complete waste of time, much like unhelpful comments.

I never said I wasn't interested in saving locos but thanks for the assumption. I have donated to both the CLP10 fundraiser and the one towards getting an ICE radio for R766. If it's a legitimate cause and a realistic goal, them I'm happy to chip in. If details on what I'm being asked to donate to are scarce or non-existant, then I won't be.

Oh, and where was I negative? Given the topic at hand is 'saving' the X's from PN, I thought it prudent to query that those interested were actually aware that PN sold them on.
Greensleeves
I never said that you weren't interested in saving loco's, it was just your assumption.
I never asked you to donate, I asked if people were interested in donating to save loco's.
And it wasn't "saving the X's from PN". I stated there was X class there.
Get your fact straight, and stop twisting things to suit yourself.
If you can't work out where you have been negative, well there is no hope for you.
I feel it prudent to let people know, that your just being a cunning manipulative individual, playing your little mind games.
Oh wait, people can see that for themselves, just by reading the thread, so your only hurting yourself.
Have a nice day.
  Greensleeves Chief Commissioner

Location: If it isn't obvious by now, it should be.
I suspect many railfans world wide would choose CLP10 as more significant than an X or 48 due to it being the very last bulldog nosed EMD built anywhere in the world.

And I just have to ask, do you know who actually owns the X's at Werris Creek (45, 46 and 52)? Because I'll give you a hint: it's not PN...
Well, since as stated earlier by Neill Farmer that "The project to save CL17 (CLP10) is having enough trouble". I suspect that many railfans don't feel that the very last bulldog nosed EMD built anywhere in the world, is significant enough to warrant putting their hand in there pocket.
Since I have been unable to get close enough to the X class at the right angle to see the numbers, I did not know the identity of the loco's present, but thank you for letting me know the numbers, it is of great help.
But then I ask.
If your not interested in helping to save a loco or two, then why comment?
Why be so negative?
You know the old saying, If you have nothing good to say, don't say anything at all.
I suspect my efforts to find people interested in trying to save a piece of history from this site, has been a complete waste of time, much like unhelpful comments.

I never said I wasn't interested in saving locos but thanks for the assumption. I have donated to both the CLP10 fundraiser and the one towards getting an ICE radio for R766. If it's a legitimate cause and a realistic goal, them I'm happy to chip in. If details on what I'm being asked to donate to are scarce or non-existant, then I won't be.

Oh, and where was I negative? Given the topic at hand is 'saving' the X's from PN, I thought it prudent to query that those interested were actually aware that PN sold them on.
I never said that you weren't interested in saving loco's, it was just your assumption.
I never asked you to donate, I asked if people were interested in donating to save loco's.
And it wasn't "saving the X's from PN". I stated there was X class there.
Get your fact straight, and stop twisting things to suit yourself.
If you can't work out where you have been negative, well there is no hope for you.
I feel it prudent to let people know, that your just being a cunning manipulative individual, playing your little mind games.
Oh wait, people can see that for themselves, just by reading the thread, so your only hurting yourself.
Have a nice day.
Dutchman

Ok, I'm going to go through this point by point.

1. "I never said that you weren't interested in saving loco's, it was just your assumption." You said it right in your first reply to me, and I quote: "If your (sic) not interested in trying to save a loco or two, then why comment?"

2. "I never asked you to donate, I asked if people were interested in donating to save loco's." And I gave you my response, I donated to help save CLP10. If the cause is well founded and detailed, I'm more than happy to assist.

3. The only one twisting words here is you.

4. "If you can't work out where you have been negative, well there is no hope for you." The typical response from someone whose bluff has been called out.

5. "I feel it prudent to let people know, that your just being a cunning manipulative individual, playing your little mind games.
Oh wait, people can see that for themselves, just by reading the thread, so your only hurting yourself.
Have a nice day" You're not helping your own cause by resorting to petty insults. Either way, I'm done with this, I've got better things to put my time towards.

Have a nice day.
  Dutchman Station Staff

I suspect many railfans world wide would choose CLP10 as more significant than an X or 48 due to it being the very last bulldog nosed EMD built anywhere in the world.

And I just have to ask, do you know who actually owns the X's at Werris Creek (45, 46 and 52)? Because I'll give you a hint: it's not PN...
Well, since as stated earlier by Neill Farmer that "The project to save CL17 (CLP10) is having enough trouble". I suspect that many railfans don't feel that the very last bulldog nosed EMD built anywhere in the world, is significant enough to warrant putting their hand in there pocket.
Since I have been unable to get close enough to the X class at the right angle to see the numbers, I did not know the identity of the loco's present, but thank you for letting me know the numbers, it is of great help.
But then I ask.
If your not interested in helping to save a loco or two, then why comment?
Why be so negative?
You know the old saying, If you have nothing good to say, don't say anything at all.
I suspect my efforts to find people interested in trying to save a piece of history from this site, has been a complete waste of time, much like unhelpful comments.

I never said I wasn't interested in saving locos but thanks for the assumption. I have donated to both the CLP10 fundraiser and the one towards getting an ICE radio for R766. If it's a legitimate cause and a realistic goal, them I'm happy to chip in. If details on what I'm being asked to donate to are scarce or non-existant, then I won't be.

Oh, and where was I negative? Given the topic at hand is 'saving' the X's from PN, I thought it prudent to query that those interested were actually aware that PN sold them on.
I never said that you weren't interested in saving loco's, it was just your assumption.
I never asked you to donate, I asked if people were interested in donating to save loco's.
And it wasn't "saving the X's from PN". I stated there was X class there.
Get your fact straight, and stop twisting things to suit yourself.
If you can't work out where you have been negative, well there is no hope for you.
I feel it prudent to let people know, that your just being a cunning manipulative individual, playing your little mind games.
Oh wait, people can see that for themselves, just by reading the thread, so your only hurting yourself.
Have a nice day.

Ok, I'm going to go through this point by point.

1. "I never said that you weren't interested in saving loco's, it was just your assumption." You said it right in your first reply to me, and I quote: "If your (sic) not interested in trying to save a loco or two, then why comment?"

2. "I never asked you to donate, I asked if people were interested in donating to save loco's." And I gave you my response, I donated to help save CLP10. If the cause is well founded and detailed, I'm more than happy to assist.

3. The only one twisting words here is you.

4. "If you can't work out where you have been negative, well there is no hope for you." The typical response from someone whose bluff has been called out.

5. "I feel it prudent to let people know, that your just being a cunning manipulative individual, playing your little mind games.
Oh wait, people can see that for themselves, just by reading the thread, so your only hurting yourself.
Have a nice day" You're not helping your own cause by resorting to petty insults. Either way, I'm done with this, I've got better things to put my time towards.

Have a nice day.
Greensleeves
Dude seriously.
I am responsible for what I wrote.
Not for how you interpret it.
So just deal with it.
I thinks it's great that you donated to help save CLP10, more power to you.
Don't forget you also donated towards getting an ICE radio for R766, more power to you.
Both of which are worthy causes.
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
If anybody is seriously thinking of getting a consortium of railfans together to purchase a locomotive from PN, may I give you some advice. The first thing you personally need to do is amass a large amount of money, lets say $10,000 as a good starting point. And I'm talking cash, you know, the actual folding stuff. Get all of that cash, and burn it in a bonfire. Save the middle man the bother.

Buying an old locomotive to restore is no easy feat. It will take an awful lot of money and an awful lot of time, and after all of that, there is no guarantee that it will be successful.

Take CLP10 for instance. There is a legitimate cause here. It isn't just some random locomotive that has been sitting out in a railyard in the middle of nowhere for 10 years (like the stuff at Werris Creek), As the last ever EMD streamliner locomotive built worldwide, it is a significant piece of railway history. Yet even then, the group attempting to save it are struggling to achieve their goal. Why? Because it is bloody hard.

Look at it this way, the cost of living is constantly on the rise. Sure, overall the unemployment rate is down, but for the first time ever, the percentage of Australians employed on a permanent full time basis has dipped below 50%, meaning half the countries population don't have good job security. Add to that, the cost of real estate in our two largest cities is astronomical. So if you want to live anywhere near where the work actually is, you better be on a good wage, otherwise be prepared for a long and tiresome commute. With all of this, most people aren't really concerned with salvaging a rusty old locomotive.

------


On the other hand, If all your really asking is: Would anybody on Railpage be interested in putting money into one of PN's derelict locomotives? If that's your question, I think you have your answer.

NO!

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