Who will use Mildura SG and how?

 
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
GTS - yes i have seen them around the place.

Our fleet includes over 100 b-double prime movers and over 150 b-double taut liners trailer combinations.
GTS Website

That is pretty large.  Now, lots of them would be doing runs to Sydney and elsewhere where rail doesnt go (efficiently) from Mildura, but if there was enough, they may have their own volumes.  Does anyone think it could be economic to route Mildura-Melbourne-Sydney by rail at all?

Id love to know what SCT has been doing strategy wise on this line....

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  BigShunter Chief Commissioner

Location: St Clair. S.A.
All part of the standardisation is Boort who once had a daily goods to and from Bendigo.  Might we see Boort enter the containerised export via rail once sg is completed?
bevans
What product/s is/are available to be transported from Boort, bevans ?

BigShunter.
  Barrington Womble Photo Nazi

Location: Banned
The Boort traffic ceased well over ten years ago, so it is unlikely to return. In it's last year or so, it was running via Ballarat and Maryborough, due to the poor condition of the track between Eaglehawk and Inglewood. From memory (open to correction) it's main loading was for containerised hay.

Regarding the Manangatang train, this will cease at some point in the future so the line can be standardised. The line from Sea Lake will be done first, but the grain needs to be cleared and is happening at the moment. Once the 9101/02 stops running, the rollingstock will most likely be gauge converted, and used to and from Merbein. With the slower line speeds, and extra distance added by going via Ararat; it would make sense to run two sets to maintain the volume and have quicker turnaround times, which is done at the moment with the mid-week Manangatang train.

Regarding other inter-modal traffic, I can't really answer that. There is always the possibility of this occurring with new players to the region, such as SCT or Qube as line haul. Finding the ideal venue for a new inter-modal yard could prove tricky as well. It is possible Wakefield may expand their services also. This is, of course, pure speculation. Don't take it as gospel. I don't think anything will happen on either front until line speeds are increased, and there is a more direct route to Melbourne to decrease travel times. This would be fairly reliant on the Maryborough to Gheringhap section being gauge converted. Even with a direct link between the Maryborough and Pleurisy Plains lines at Ararat, there are a lot of unnecessary mileage and time added to the journey.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
IIRC BW, there was primary produce on the train including corn and hay as you say.  The interesting aspect is the area still exports via Melbourne Port so there is scope for a Donald style operation.  There is also a co-op there for grain.

The most interesting aspect is Boort has nearby a major mineral sands deposit of over 1.5m tonnes.  This would need to go to Hamilton.
  BigShunter Chief Commissioner

Location: St Clair. S.A.
Emu and Donald were the only crossing loops on the line able to be used at the moment, not including the Birchip grain loop. Dunolly; Sutherland; Watchem; Woomelang; Speed, and Ouyen are yet to come online again.

Just wondering if all these loops will be reactivated, I thought Emu loop had been deactivated after a de-railment there, about 4 yrs ago.

Does anyone know how the point will be set, when the re-opening occurs, I think they where all set, so all down trains would precede through the loops and up trains had the right of way, which to me sounds a bit Irish, because it would mean the need to slow right down, especially when the speed restrictions are lifted, trains will blasting along at 80 kph, perhaps this might be a case like a lot of other things, wait and see what happens.

Even with a direct link between the Maryborough and Pleurisy Plains lines at Ararat, there are a lot of unnecessary mileage and time added to the journey.

I think, without checking the MB document, they reckom it's 140 k further, touring the Pleurisy Plans, I've asked this before, to no response, finding a path to grab, through Ballarat must becoming fairly tight, and it's a bit of a hike for a grainy, from Nth Ballarat down to Warrenheip, to be out of the V'los way and  wonder just what the travel time difference, between the two routes would be ?

BigShunter.

we're getting a bit of a list of shortened names, LD, WB, BG and I get BS Shocked not sure how I feel about that, would these shortenings come under the acronym list ?  Razz
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
we're getting a bit of a list of shortened names, LD, WB, BG and I get BS Shocked not sure how I feel about that, would these shortenings come under the acronym list ?  Razz
BigShunter
Dont tell YM - which now I look at it, is a very ironic name - as it seems to contain an acronym in itself....! Wink
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
Once the 9101/02 stops running, the rollingstock will most likely be gauge converted, and used to and from Merbein. With the slower line speeds, and extra distance added by going via Ararat; it would make sense to run two sets to maintain the volume and have quicker turnaround times, which is done at the moment with the mid-week Manangatang train.
Barrington Womble
Has there always been enough rollingstock to run two trains or has it historically run with just one?  How would this conversion leave other services like Warrnambool and Tocumwal fleets?  Could there be other SG rollingstock that would be better utilised than this BG set?

This would be fairly reliant on the Maryborough to Gheringhap section being gauge converted. Even with a direct link between the Maryborough and Pleurisy Plains lines at Ararat, there are a lot of unnecessary mileage and time added to the journey.
Barrington Womble
Agreed.  SG will happen on MB-Gheringhap, but we are all eagerly awaiting the decision as to whether there is a third track on one side of it or not.
  Pressman Spirit of the Vine

Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me
James, there are several trucking companies in Mildura who would benefit from the rail use.  GTS is one.
bevans
Along with GST you have
The Pickering Transport Group Comprising Kelly & Young Trucking P/L and Pickering Transport (formerly Lake Boga Transport)
Wakefield Transport Group
Robinvale Transport Group
Plus a multitude of smaller operators

SCT is an Intermodal group and integrate road and rail, they'll use whichever is the best for a specific contract
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
we're getting a bit of a list of shortened names, LD, WB, BG and I get BS Shocked not sure how I feel about that, would these shortenings come under the acronym list ?  Razz
Dont tell YM - which now I look at it, is a very ironic name - as it seems to contain an acronym in itself....! Wink
james.au
Ah, well said BigShunter and James.
My excuse, of course, is that YM is a common well known railway acronym known pretty much worldwide.
YM equates to Yardmaster the same as SM stands for Stationmaster.
BG and SG are also sufficiently well known although DG could mean 'dual gauge' or, perhaps, 'dangerous goods'. I suspect nevertheless that all reference members here on RP and are clear enough in context.
WB in my day equalled 'without brakevan' (or was it the other way round?).
The acronyms to which I object are those narrow, specialist terms used by various groups which are neither generally known or easily determined from the context or thread. Basically they are those which say 'look what a clever dick I am'.
Does BS still mean what it always has or is it BigShunter these days?
Smile
  BigShunter Chief Commissioner

Location: St Clair. S.A.
Does BS still mean what it always has or is it BigShunter these days?
Smile
YM-Mundrabilla

Well Yardmaster, I'm Nearly offended you've even asked, which leads me think you haven't been reading my posts closely enough or I've got the wool pulled over your eyes, suffice to say there's a little bit of truth in most of what I say, where and what it is, is for you to workout as well as never letting the truth get in the way of a good story.  Razz

BigShunter.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Does BS still mean what it always has or is it BigShunter these days?
Smile

Well Yardmaster, I'm Nearly offended you've even asked, which leads me think you haven't been reading my posts closely enough or I've got the wool pulled over your eyes, suffice to say there's a little bit of truth in most of what I say, where and what it is, is for you to workout as well as never letting the truth get in the way of a good story.  Razz

BigShunter.
BigShunter
BS (BigShunter !!! Smile)

Firstly, never be offended or even 'nearly offended' by any of my posts. I have read many of your posts and the time and effort that you have put into them are obvious.

From this day forward BS shall equal BigShunter and not the term that I have grown up with. SmileSmile
  BigShunter Chief Commissioner

Location: St Clair. S.A.
BS (BigShunter !!! Smile)

Firstly, never be offended or even 'nearly offended' by any of my posts. I have read many of your posts and the time and effort that you have put into them are obvious.

From this day forward BS shall equal BigShunter and not the term that I have grown up with. SmileSmile
YM-Mundrabilla

Razz  Ok, can confirm I've got the wool pulled over your eyes, the only way might get close to offending me, is by saying you'll come around for a few drinks and turn up with sparkling water.

No one has ever offended me and I doubt they ever will, old school and if I was any tougher I'd rust Razz

Gotch ya Yardmaster or should that be Yard Master ?

BigShunter, loaded with BS !
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
'Gotch ya Yardmaster or should that be Yard Master'

Good question BS - that's why I stick with YM . Or should they be B S and Y M ???????????. Don't anybody start !!!!!!
Just so long as you remember that it is the Yardie who orders the Shunters around. Smile
  Barrington Womble Photo Nazi

Location: Banned
Just wondering if all these loops will be reactivated, I thought Emu loop had been deactivated after a de-railment there, about 4 yrs ago.
BigShunter

They will be, given time. Emu was rebuilt shortly after the derailment was cleaned up. Ten of the Cargill hoppers sat in a nearby paddock, sans bogies, for a couple of years after. They have since been recovered, and are now back in service I believe.


Does anyone know how the point will be set, when the re-opening occurs, I think they where all set, so all down trains would precede through the loops and up trains had the right of way, which to me sounds a bit Irish, because it would mean the need to slow right down, especially when the speed restrictions are lifted, trains will blasting along at 80 kph, perhaps this might be a case like a lot of other things, wait and see what happens.
BigShunter

No idea on any of those, sorry. It is certainly a "wait and see" scenario.



I think, without checking the MB document, they reckom it's 140 k further, touring the Pleurisy Plans, I've asked this before, to no response, finding a path to grab, through Ballarat must becoming fairly tight, and it's a bit of a hike for a grainy, from Nth Ballarat down to Warrenheip, to be out of the V'los way and  wonder just what the travel time difference, between the two routes would be ?

BigShunter.
BigShunter

It's closer to 150km of extra travel. Also factor in that currently trains need to go out to Pyrenees Loop for the locos to runaround, and for access to and from the Maryborough line at Ararat. Until the direct link goes in, you can pretty much add an extra hour to the journey, sometimes more depending on what other traffic is about; crews, et cetera.

Finding a path through Ballarat isn't that difficult, although if V/Line further saturate access through Ballarat with the introduction of more passenger trains, that might become a problem and some sort of an alternative might need to be looked at. Most wheat traffic runs at night when there are no passenger trains, so it's only the Merbein train which needs a path. It might be a case of this train having to adhere to a timetable, rather than loosely running to a time as it did previously. That way it could fit in among the other traffic. If it runs late, it will have to wait for a path through like anything else would. Having a loop between Ballarat and Maryborough would certainly be of some benefit, as it could be given a run, and refuged if need be without fouling the mainline.


Once the 9101/02 stops running, the rollingstock will most likely be gauge converted, and used to and from Merbein. With the slower line speeds, and extra distance added by going via Ararat; it would make sense to run two sets to maintain the volume and have quicker turnaround times, which is done at the moment with the mid-week Manangatang train.

Barrington Womble

Has there always been enough rollingstock to run two trains or has it historically run with just one?  How would this conversion leave other services like Warrnambool and Tocumwal fleets?  Could there be other SG rollingstock that would be better utilised than this BG set?
james.au

I'm not sure to be honest. It was a nightly runner in the late '90's (except weekends), so there would have been two sets of rollingstock back then. I don't see how it would affect the Toc or Warrnambubble fleets, as it doesn't currently to my knowledge. I am open to correction on that, of course.  


This would be fairly reliant on the Maryborough to Gheringhap section being gauge converted. Even with a direct link between the Maryborough and Pleurisy Plains lines at Ararat, there are a lot of unnecessary mileage and time added to the journey.

Barrington Womble

Agreed.  SG will happen on MB-Gheringhap, but we are all eagerly awaiting the decision as to whether there is a third track on one side of it or not.
james.au

I don't care either way. As long as the standard gauge goes between the two points, that is all that matters. I do think that from a maintenance standpoint it would be better to fully convert the line. Gheringhap - Warrenheip is slated for full conversion (as per the tender documents), it's only the passenger service to Maryborough which will hold up proceedings on a decision being made for full conversion, or an extra rail. There is also the possibility that a decision has been made, but it is not yet public. Again, we'll have to wait and see.
  x31 Chief Commissioner

Location: gallifrey
Such as a new purpose built terminal near Red Cliffs, out of the town area to avoid curfews and restrictions NIMBY's tend to put on new business developments.
Nightfire

Terminals are needed if you want to get containers off and on trains.

Now with the minister canning the project I don't suppose there will be an uplift of freight and no capacity for more operators to move into the market?
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
Such as a new purpose built terminal near Red Cliffs, out of the town area to avoid curfews and restrictions NIMBY's tend to put on new business developments.

Terminals are needed if you want to get containers off and on trains.

Now with the minister canning the project I don't suppose there will be an uplift of freight and no capacity for more operators to move into the market?
x31
The minister isnt canning the project, that is just the Nationals spin on it.

We dont really know what is happening though, which is a fair point..
  Jack Le Lievre Assistant Commissioner

Location: Moolap Station, Vic
Such as a new purpose built terminal near Red Cliffs, out of the town area to avoid curfews and restrictions NIMBY's tend to put on new business developments.

Terminals are needed if you want to get containers off and on trains.

Now with the minister canning the project I don't suppose there will be an uplift of freight and no capacity for more operators to move into the market?
x31
I wouldn't throw out the baby with the bath water yet, Chicken Little. You have been running around this site over the last 24hrs says that the Project has been "canned" by the Minister and that it is all doom and gloom.

I and others would like you to supply actual evidence that the Project has been scrapped, not hearsay from a Political Party that is currently in Opposition in an Election Year, actual hard and fast evidence that the Project has been scrapped.

I know that the Minister has a reputation for not knowing the difference between a Tram and a Train, but at least give it some time.
  NSWGR8022 Chief Commissioner

Location: From the lands of Journalism and Free Speech
I noticed today a new user from Mildura has been posting https://www.railpage.com.au/f-pr-viewprofile-79296.htm Lachlan's Train Channel and began to wonder if that user could provide some feedback on any working changes in Mildura since the Standard Gauge has been completed.  Lots of hopes around more operators and expansion.

What expansion has taken place since the upgrades?
  Donald Chief Commissioner

Location: Donald. Duck country.
Probably only expansion is the addition of Qube  & SSR grain trains.

Some grain trains went to NSW, something that would not have happened before changeover.

I did read that at least one grain went west at Ararat.



But as for new work from along the line, nothing extra.
  NSWGR8022 Chief Commissioner

Location: From the lands of Journalism and Free Speech
With all the announcements and government support at all levels i had hoped other depots might open in Mildura for other operators,  This may still happen.
  cbinyon Chief Train Controller

Location: London, England
PN SG grainy loaded at Ouyen yesterday as 7738V. Hasn't been any SSR & QUBE grainys for at least 6 months. With the promise of bumper crop, will things change?
  Lachlan's Train Channel Locomotive Driver

Location: probably taking a photo of 7901V
I noticed today a new user from Mildura has been posting https://www.railpage.com.au/f-pr-viewprofile-79296.htm Lachlan's Train Channel and began to wonder if that user could provide some feedback on any working changes in Mildura since the Standard Gauge has been completed.  Lots of hopes around more operators and expansion.

What expansion has taken place since the upgrades?
NSWGR8022
Same old Pacific National in Mildura, however QUBE and SSR have had trains as far as Carwarp and maybe we will see some SSR grains to Yelta.
  NSWGR8022 Chief Commissioner

Location: From the lands of Journalism and Free Speech
Same old Pacific National in Mildura, however QUBE and SSR have had trains as far as Carwarp and maybe we will see some SSR grains to Yelta.
Lachlan's Train Channel

Somewhat disappointing not to see other operators basing themselves at Mildura and picking up more freight.  In your estimation is more freight now going via rail since the SG has been partially completed?

Also interested in what new freight could be converted to rail?
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
Same old Pacific National in Mildura, however QUBE and SSR have had trains as far as Carwarp and maybe we will see some SSR grains to Yelta.

Somewhat disappointing not to see other operators basing themselves at Mildura and picking up more freight.  In your estimation is more freight now going via rail since the SG has been partially completed?

Also interested in what new freight could be converted to rail?
NSWGR8022

Why is it disappointing? Why would you think other rail operators would want seek to waste millions on investing in locos and rolling stock, fuelling and servicing facilities and crew base when you don't even know what the freight task on offer is?

Even if you managed to double the existing rail freight task (excluding grain) then I doubt it could justify more than one operator on the line.
  NSWGR8022 Chief Commissioner

Location: From the lands of Journalism and Free Speech

Why is it disappointing? Why would you think other rail operators would want seek to waste millions on investing in locos and rolling stock, fuelling and servicing facilities and crew base when you don't even know what the freight task on offer is?

Even if you managed to double the existing rail freight task (excluding grain) then I doubt it could justify more than one operator on the line.
bingley hall

I am disappointed the industry asked for the SG conversion and the Mildura freight task which is substantial has not been increased.  The industry knew about the conversion a year ahead of time allowed competent and business growth based operators to secure freight contracts.

A government spend hundred of millions on the basis that operators and industry groups stated this was  good idea. rail companies have not stepped up and new business has not materialized.

I admit I am home bored and posting a lot more but the fact is still there no net benefits thus far.

Bingley you seem to have an excuse for everything which goes wrong or is a failure for the rail industry.

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