$3 billion high-speed underground train will go from Parramatta to the city in less than 20 minutes

 
Topic moved from News by bevans on 19 Jun 2018 15:55
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Victoria announces light rail improvements for Caulfield to Rowville. Transit times to reduce to 4 hours.

$3 billion high-speed underground train will go from Parramatta to the city in less than 20 minutes

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  simstrain Chief Commissioner

What has Victorian trams got to do with the announcement of the metro west funding?
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
Where are the proposed station locations?
  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: Trapped in a meeting with Rhonda and Karsten
Where are the proposed station locations?
RTT_Rules
From: https://www.urban.com.au/policy/2018/06/19/nsw-budget-allocates-3-billion-for-sydneys-western-metro
  stooge spark Train Controller

What has Victorian trams got to do with the announcement of the metro west funding?
simstrain
He is trying to make a comparison between the way Sydney and Melbourne both work.
Of course, he doesn't know how Sydney works, they've had problems involving not doing projects or doing them poorly.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

What has Victorian trams got to do with the announcement of the metro west funding?
He is trying to make a comparison between the way Sydney and Melbourne both work.
Of course, he doesn't know how Sydney works, they've had problems involving not doing projects or doing them poorly.
stooge spark

I'm not sure that is it Stooge. I think he is looking at the amount of money being spent and wishing it could be spent in Melbourne.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
What has Victorian trams got to do with the announcement of the metro west funding?
He is trying to make a comparison between the way Sydney and Melbourne both work.
Of course, he doesn't know how Sydney works, they've had problems involving not doing projects or doing them poorly.

I'm not sure that is it Stooge. I think he is looking at the amount of money being spent and wishing it could be spent in Melbourne.
simstrain
Vic is in general doing ok, lagging NSW financially, but still ok.

Overall I think most of the other states wish they had NSW's bottom line surplus to play with. Maybe, just maybe this will teach those who feel surpluses are not important that longterm its better to pay for your new toys once!
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

What has Victorian trams got to do with the announcement of the metro west funding?
He is trying to make a comparison between the way Sydney and Melbourne both work.
Of course, he doesn't know how Sydney works, they've had problems involving not doing projects or doing them poorly.

I'm not sure that is it Stooge. I think he is looking at the amount of money being spent and wishing it could be spent in Melbourne.
simstrain
Maybe he should look at the $5B to be spent on a rail link to help people make a quicker escape from Melbourne's horrible airport.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

What has Victorian trams got to do with the announcement of the metro west funding?
He is trying to make a comparison between the way Sydney and Melbourne both work.
Of course, he doesn't know how Sydney works, they've had problems involving not doing projects or doing them poorly.

I'm not sure that is it Stooge. I think he is looking at the amount of money being spent and wishing it could be spent in Melbourne.
Vic is in general doing ok, lagging NSW financially, but still ok.

Overall I think most of the other states wish they had NSW's bottom line surplus to play with. Maybe, just maybe this will teach those who feel surpluses are not important that longterm its better to pay for your new toys once!
RTT_Rules

This comes after 16 years of half finished or cancelled projects that lagged us behind all of the other states. This government saw that we needed new infrastructure and went and got the money for it regardless because it needed to be done. Most of Westconnex should have been done by 1980 instead of 2018-23. Sydney is getting all this money because our roads and rail are full and new capacity is needed. If any significant improvement to intercity and regional rail is to be achieved then it all has to start in Sydney. The new metro lines will free up the old lines for more frequent services to Newcastle and Wollongong.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

What has Victorian trams got to do with the announcement of the metro west funding?
He is trying to make a comparison between the way Sydney and Melbourne both work.
Of course, he doesn't know how Sydney works, they've had problems involving not doing projects or doing them poorly.

I'm not sure that is it Stooge. I think he is looking at the amount of money being spent and wishing it could be spent in Melbourne.
Maybe he should look at the $5B to be spent on a rail link to help people make a quicker escape from Melbourne's horrible airport.
justapassenger

When you compare that to the $30 billion being spent on the new metro systems in Sydney it is still something something to dream about. Plus by 2023 there will probably be the next announcements of se metro and northern beaches metro and the high speed newcastle and wollongong lines.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
Yes agree, go back to 2011 and who would have imagined Sydney spending $20B on a Metro system.

I think the NSW govt will survive nexrcyear election and continue the infrastructure spending on a consistent plan. The northern beaches metro connecting to western metro surely has to see the light of day, the SE metro would becadmitting failure of the LR so no.

However in their next term of govy they need to fix two wrongs,
1) connect NW metro with Richmond line.

2) connect Bankstown metro with Liverpool.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

I went to a metro briefing at Bankstown on the 23rd June 2018 and to be honest whenever I bought up Liverpool with the technical people it drew blank faces on how to get their using anything other then the current rail alignment. The Georges river is proving to be much more difficult then Sydney Harbour in finding a solution.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
I went to a metro briefing at Bankstown on the 23rd June 2018 and to be honest whenever I bought up Liverpool with the technical people it drew blank faces on how to get their using anything other then the current rail alignment. The Georges river is proving to be much more difficult then Sydney Harbour in finding a solution.
simstrain
Interesting, thanks.

I assume a surface crossing, ie bridge will draw similar levels of objection as did the Lane Cove Bridge and the tunnel option simply doesn't work.

Continuing the Metro to Liverpool by converting even more of the DD network is pointless if it has to run via Sefton and causes alot of issues in doing so. So there is a relatively simple solution fix the issues the Metro will cause to the operations of the Reagents Park Triangle.

Convert the line west of Bankstown to Metro and add a third platform to Reagents Park. Disconnect the Bankstown connection from Liverpool to Lidcombe junction at Reagents Park and build around 500m of 3rd Metro only track into the dead end platform with another stub extension to store a spare set if required. Only every 2nd train to Bankstown needs to extend to Reagents Park., or at least no faster than say a 10min timetable.

The surface junction with the freight line can remain as the operation of such is same regardless of Metro or DD, perhaps the surplus OH can be removed from freight route.

This leaves the Liverpool via Straithfield services to be spilt across both Reagents Park and Gladsville in what ever ratio is needed.
  gordon_s1942 Chief Commissioner

Location: Central Tablelands of NSW
When I first heard this proposal I thought it was 'Pie in the Sky' BUT it is the ONLY way they will EVER get a high speed train to be able to run between Sydney and Parramatta.
However I see its already been 'White Anted' away by having stops between the 2 locations.
Give it a bit more time and these will increase so by the time the final drawings are made, there will be a stop very 500 metres between Sydney and Parramatta.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
When I first heard this proposal I thought it was 'Pie in the Sky' BUT it is the ONLY way they will EVER get a high speed train to be able to run between Sydney and Parramatta.
However I see its already been 'White Anted' away by having stops between the 2 locations.
Give it a bit more time and these will increase so by the time the final drawings are made, there will be a stop very 500 metres between Sydney and Parramatta.
gordon_s1942
The Western Metro runs through some virgin ground for rail, so an extra 2-3 stops is going improve Rail's foot print and in Sydney once you live more than 1km away from a railway station usage of rail decreases rapidly. Additonally 2 stops is less than 60-90sec extra travel time so for this I'm ok with the extra stations. Will more be added, unlikely as for one they are around $250M a piece and two there is unlikely much need if the existing HR is there.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
Yes agree, go back to 2011 and who would have imagined Sydney spending $20B on a Metro system.

I think the NSW govt will survive nexrcyear election and continue the infrastructure spending on a consistent plan. The northern beaches metro connecting to western metro surely has to see the light of day, the SE metro would becadmitting failure of the LR so no.

However in their next term of govy they need to fix two wrongs,
1) connect NW metro with Richmond line.

2) connect Bankstown metro with Liverpool.
RTT_Rules
I should also add Bondi Beach extension.

Imagine the outcry if the govt decided to truncate the Cronulla line a few stops back from the terminus, same logic applies to Bondi.
  Transtopic Assistant Commissioner

I went to a metro briefing at Bankstown on the 23rd June 2018 and to be honest whenever I bought up Liverpool with the technical people it drew blank faces on how to get their using anything other then the current rail alignment. The Georges river is proving to be much more difficult then Sydney Harbour in finding a solution.
Interesting, thanks.

I assume a surface crossing, ie bridge will draw similar levels of objection as did the Lane Cove Bridge and the tunnel option simply doesn't work.

Continuing the Metro to Liverpool by converting even more of the DD network is pointless if it has to run via Sefton and causes alot of issues in doing so. So there is a relatively simple solution fix the issues the Metro will cause to the operations of the Reagents Park Triangle.

Convert the line west of Bankstown to Metro and add a third platform to Reagents Park. Disconnect the Bankstown connection from Liverpool to Lidcombe junction at Reagents Park and build around 500m of 3rd Metro only track into the dead end platform with another stub extension to store a spare set if required. Only every 2nd train to Bankstown needs to extend to Reagents Park., or at least no faster than say a 10min timetable.

The surface junction with the freight line can remain as the operation of such is same regardless of Metro or DD, perhaps the surplus OH can be removed from freight route.

This leaves the Liverpool via Straithfield services to be spilt across both Reagents Park and Gladsville in what ever ratio is needed.
RTT_Rules
An eminently sensible solution Shayne and I'm at a loss to understand why the powers that be haven't embraced it. It solves the problem of isolating Yagoona and Birrong and leaves the option open to reinstate Liverpool via Regents Park services as part of T2 as you suggest.  It's a win win IMO and overcomes the unsatisfactory interchange arrangement at Bankstown.  There's also no need for shuttles from Lidcombe to Bankstown.  I think you mean via Granville rather than via Gladesville.

I think the freight issue can be easily resolved by redirecting traffic from the SSFL to the freight only line to Flemington and Enfield.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

metro on the surface route can only go as far as birrong. Freight still uses the existing main south even with the ssfl operational.
  Transtopic Assistant Commissioner

metro on the surface route can only go as far as birrong. Freight still uses the existing main south even with the ssfl operational.
simstrain
I was intimating that the SSFL should be directly connected to the freight lines avoiding the triangular junction.  Surely that's not too hard.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
An eminently sensible solution Shayne and I'm at a loss to understand why the powers that be haven't embraced it. It solves the problem of isolating Yagoona and Birrong and leaves the option open to reinstate Liverpool via Regents Park services as part of T2 as you suggest.  It's a win win IMO and overcomes the unsatisfactory interchange arrangement at Bankstown.  There's also no need for shuttles from Lidcombe to Bankstown.  I think you mean via Granville rather than via Gladesville.

I think the freight issue can be easily resolved by redirecting traffic from the SSFL to the freight only line to Flemington and Enfield.
Transtopic
HI Transtopic,

Yes, Granville, I'll correct thanks

Yes, using a $10M 4 car, 2 man crew DD as a shuttle just creates another high cost/low ridership operation replicating the Carilingford Line.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
metro on the surface route can only go as far as birrong. Freight still uses the existing main south even with the ssfl operational.
simstrain
Hi,
So we are on same track, I'm thinking you saying freights traverse from Chullora, up via Regents Park towards Lidcombe and then head west or even east onto Main South?

Ok no problem,
- heading north from Birrong just prior to the junction the Metro merges to one track. If you look on Google Sat, just above where the city bound DD is sitting (convenient I know).

- The Metro's now single track is the current city bound via Bankstown (East track)

- The Freight line from just part the junction near Sefton to Chullora is reduced to one track and de-wired as sparks will be eliminated.

- The Metro line crosses the single on a diamond junction and remains on the current east track towards Reagents Park.

- Immediately west of the above diamond there is a set of points to switch between headed to Reagents Park or Sefton.

- On the junction to the line heading north towards Regents park, the freight line merges with the SE track, followed by a cross over to NE track.

- The Metro comes up along side and runs parallel as I discussed before into a stub on a third platform at Regents Park.

- The current junction between Birrong and Reagents park and Sefton now gets significantly simplified.

- The Metro has no issue crossing a freight line as it needs the same safe working systems as a DD.


Does this solve the problem?

I know some hard liners won't like the Y basically disabled in such a way, but....
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

metro on the surface route can only go as far as birrong. Freight still uses the existing main south even with the ssfl operational.
I was intimating that the SSFL should be directly connected to the freight lines avoiding the triangular junction.  Surely that's not too hard.
Transtopic

It already is. Freight still uses the main south in the sydney suburban area outside of curfew hours. Remember that from sefton to macarthur there is atleast 3 tracks along this corridor. The only benefit of the ssfl is that it can run freight trains in the curfew hours.

P.S. main south is liverpool to lidcombe either via granville or regents park.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

metro on the surface route can only go as far as birrong. Freight still uses the existing main south even with the ssfl operational.
Hi,
So we are on same track, I'm thinking you saying freights traverse from Chullora, up via Regents Park towards Lidcombe and then head west or even east onto Main South?

Ok no problem,
- heading north from Birrong just prior to the junction the Metro merges to one track. If you look on Google Sat, just above where the city bound DD is sitting (convenient I know).

- The Metro's now single track is the current city bound via Bankstown (East track)

- The Freight line from just part the junction near Sefton to Chullora is reduced to one track and de-wired as sparks will be eliminated.

- The Metro line crosses the single on a diamond junction and remains on the current east track towards Reagents Park.

- Immediately west of the above diamond there is a set of points to switch between headed to Reagents Park or Sefton.

- On the junction to the line heading north towards Regents park, the freight line merges with the SE track, followed by a cross over to NE track.

- The Metro comes up along side and runs parallel as I discussed before into a stub on a third platform at Regents Park.

- The current junction between Birrong and Reagents park and Sefton now gets significantly simplified.

- The Metro has no issue crossing a freight line as it needs the same safe working systems as a DD.


Does this solve the problem?

I know some hard liners won't like the Y basically disabled in such a way, but....
RTT_Rules

No it doesn't. Metro must be completely separated from the regular rail line and so it must dive under the existing lines or the existing tracks must dive under it.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE

No it doesn't. Metro must be completely separated from the regular rail line and so it must dive under the existing lines or the existing tracks must dive under it.
simstrain
Its a single non-switchable Diamond crossing used by how many freights a day in operating hours of the Metro?

Who says?
What is the technical reason?
What is the safety reasons?

As you said, its out of curfew.

Why do you want to add a few hundred million to teh cost of something for no reason?
  djf01 Chief Commissioner

Why do you want to add a few hundred million to teh cost of something for no reason?
RTT_Rules

You mean like extending the metro to Liverpool? Smile

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