Can Sprinters in Victoria be converted to run on standard gauge?

 
  Duncs Chief Commissioner

Just enquiring if Sprinters can be set up for SG running in case Vline needs to do this in future.

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  Radioman Chief Train Controller

Hello All,

well Duncs , they probably can , but why would you bother considering their age ? Being built in 1993 - 1995 makes them at least 23 years old , and the Velocity sets from 2004 onwards are both younger ( 14 years old or less ) and a superior train.

If you were buying a new DMU set now , drive would be electric , not hydraulic , and may even incorporate dual mode battery and diesel power units.

Having said that , on past and current fleet age the Sprinters will probably around for another 25 or so years , and the Velocity around 35 years or so. With the rapid advance in technology , in future a repower and refurbishment programme , may substitute a different power and transmission combination set to the current set up.

Regards, Radioman.
  woodford Chief Commissioner

The VLine Sprinters appear to be based on the UK class 150 Spinters so they are very likely to be able to be converted easily to SG.

Note: Updated versions of the engine (Deutz BF8L513C) and transmissions (Voith t221r) are STILL being manufactured so keeping the Sprinters going into the future should not be to much of an issue.

Note 2: The Sprinters also have plenty of redundancy, the each vehicle has 2 engines, 2 transmsissions, 2 electrical power, generation systems, 2 independent braking systems and two separate air conditioning systems, so they are quite fault tolerant.
An engine failure does not slow them down much (an engine failed on one I was on at Kilmore East). Mind you I have been on one that ran out of fuel.

woodford
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

I thought the Sprinter was a wider and longer version of the ADL cars which Goninan had previously built for the suburban lines in Perth (since exported to Auckland).

I'm guessing that they would have been delivered to Victoria from Newcastle on standard gauge transfer bogies. If correct, this would suggest they meet the loading gauge of the interstate network and could run on standard gauge bogies.

Further VLocity deliveries could allow Sprinters to be displaced from BG routes running into Melbourne and redeployed on SG bogies to run services such as Dimboola-Ararat and Maryborough-Ballarat which would connect with Melbourne trains.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
I think the sprinters would be great being used in Western Victoria but who/how would they be serviced on SG?
  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: Gheringhap Loop Autonomous Zone
I think the sprinters would be great being used in Western Victoria but who/how would they be serviced on SG?
bevans
Gemco in Dynon does SG servicing for V/Line's Albury service. If you want somewhere in Western Victoria then UGL in North Ballarat will have an SG connection at the conclusion of the Murray Basin Rail Project, as will Bombardier's Ballarat East maintenance facility. It's not a problem in that respect.

Sprintera are a bad idea for SG use IMO because they aren't designed for longer distance services. The proposed long distance VLocity would be a much better candidate as they will have improved crash protection and passenger facilities appropriate to the likely journey times (such as Horsham-Melbourne, Melbourne-Albury etc)
  x31 Chief Commissioner

Location: gallifrey
The trip from Horsham to Ballarat would take how long in a sprinter 2.5 hours or less?

You could also put them on the Hamilton to Ararat service maybe 70 mins?
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

I think the sprinters would be great being used in Western Victoria but who/how would they be serviced on SG?
bevans
Set up a depot somewhere in western Victoria - probably in the Ballarat area for relatively convenient access to Ararat via Maryborough - and run them into Melbourne (via Geelong) for heavier work at the same facility which maintains the Albury fleet.
  x31 Chief Commissioner

Location: gallifrey
What work is carried out currently in North Ballarat?
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
Sprintera are a bad idea for SG use IMO because they aren't designed for longer distance services. The proposed long distance VLocity would be a much better candidate as they will have improved crash protection and passenger facilities appropriate to the likely journey times (such as Horsham-Melbourne, Melbourne-Albury etc)
LancedDendrite
To me theyre better than a VLo in the hypothetical project where Ararat-Ballarat is SG and you'd need shorter running services into Ballarat, and a single Sprinter would be a far more efficient vehicle (ie not 222 seats for less than a bus full of people....)

Tho also hypothetically, the long distance VLo on SG could go SCS-Geelong North-Balarat-Ararat-Horsham and return too (or combination thereof).
  gordon_s1942 Chief Commissioner

Location: Central Tablelands of NSW
The question I would ask is not can this be done but Is it worth the cost involved to convert or better to buy new purpose built rolling stock?
  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: Gheringhap Loop Autonomous Zone
Sprinters are a bad idea for SG use IMO because they aren't designed for longer distance services. The proposed long distance VLocity would be a much better candidate as they will have improved crash protection and passenger facilities appropriate to the likely journey times (such as Horsham-Melbourne, Melbourne-Albury etc)
To me they're better than a VLo in the hypothetical project where Ararat-Ballarat is SG and you'd need shorter running services into Ballarat, and a single Sprinter would be a far more efficient vehicle (ie not 222 seats for less than a bus full of people....)

Tho also hypothetically, the long distance VLo on SG could go SCS-Geelong-Ballarat-Ararat-Horsham and return too (or combination thereof).
james.au
Sprinters aren't allowed to run as single cars in track-circuited areas (i.e just about everywhere), so that point is largely irrelevant. 3VL sets are the norm at the moment but there's no reason why a gauge-isolated VLo fleet can't be reverted back to 2VL sets (140 pax per set). VLos are also getting crash resistance modifications in the upcoming tranches which would make them more suitable for ARTC track.

Using a common VLocity platform for both Western District SG services (as a 2/3VL) and the Albury Pass (as a Long Distance 4/5/6VL) would greatly simplify maintenance by having a common pool of spare parts and suitably equipped maintenance facilities. Sets wouldn't be easily shared between the two but at least DM/DM(D) cars could be swapped around in a pinch.
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
Sprinters aren't allowed to run as single cars in track-circuited areas (i.e just about everywhere), so that point is largely irrelevant. 3VL sets are the norm at the moment but there's no reason why a gauge-isolated VLo fleet can't be reverted back to 2VL sets (140 pax per set). VLos are also getting crash resistance modifications in the upcoming tranches which would make them more suitable for ARTC track.

Using a common VLocity platform for both Western District SG services (as a 2/3VL) and the Albury Pass (as a Long Distance 4/5/6VL) would greatly simplify maintenance by having a common pool of spare parts and suitably equipped maintenance facilities. Sets wouldn't be easily shared between the two but at least DM/DM(D) cars could be swapped around in a pinch.
LancedDendrite
Ahh, interesting, i was not aware they could not run solo.  

Agreed a common VLo fleet would be better, using the Sprinters in the way is was thinking would only be an interim solution to that.  But a moot point anyway.
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

Agreed a common VLo fleet would be better, using the Sprinters in the way is was thinking would only be an interim solution to that.  But a moot point anyway.
james.au
It would be a good method of testing the market for rail services in a number of areas which currently only have coaches.

If the communities receiving new services didn't use them, coaches could replace the Sprinters again and there would be no need to buy a new fleet for unwanted services.
  woodford Chief Commissioner

Sprinters are a bad idea for SG use IMO because they aren't designed for longer distance services. The proposed long distance VLocity would be a much better candidate as they will have improved crash protection and passenger facilities appropriate to the likely journey times (such as Horsham-Melbourne, Melbourne-Albury etc)
To me they're better than a VLo in the hypothetical project where Ararat-Ballarat is SG and you'd need shorter running services into Ballarat, and a single Sprinter would be a far more efficient vehicle (ie not 222 seats for less than a bus full of people....)

Tho also hypothetically, the long distance VLo on SG could go SCS-Geelong-Ballarat-Ararat-Horsham and return too (or combination thereof).
Sprinters aren't allowed to run as single cars in track-circuited areas (i.e just about everywhere), so that point is largely irrelevant. 3VL sets are the norm at the moment but there's no reason why a gauge-isolated VLo fleet can't be reverted back to 2VL sets (140 pax per set). VLos are also getting crash resistance modifications in the upcoming tranches which would make them more suitable for ARTC track.

Using a common VLocity platform for both Western District SG services (as a 2/3VL) and the Albury Pass (as a Long Distance 4/5/6VL) would greatly simplify maintenance by having a common pool of spare parts and suitably equipped maintenance facilities. Sets wouldn't be easily shared between the two but at least DM/DM(D) cars could be swapped around in a pinch.
LancedDendrite
They DEFINITELY have run single car sprinter services on sundays from Seymour, I have travelled down on these a number of times.

woodford.
  woodford Chief Commissioner

Just enquiring if Sprinters can be set up for SG running in case Vline needs to do this in future.
Duncs
Goninan operators manual for the Sprinters in section 2.2 VEHICLE DIMENSIONS AND SPECIFACTIONS states.....

Track Gauge.................................................................1600 mm
      convertable to.......................................................1435 mm

------------------------------end quote---------------------

SO they can be converted to SG.

woodford
  woodford Chief Commissioner

I thought the Sprinter was a wider and longer version of the ADL cars which Goninan had previously built for the suburban lines in Perth (since exported to Auckland).
justapassenger
I am going on the facts the name is the same as the class 150, the have the same seating arrangement (2+3), drivers cab is almost exactly the same, etc. So I assume the design is based on them.  The VLine Spinters are both longer, by 5 metres, wider and a good deal heavier (51 v 35 tons) than the class 150's. Note: The class 150's minimum consist is 2 cars, the VLine Sprinters can (and have) run as single cars.

woodford
  M636C Minister for Railways

I thought the Sprinter was a wider and longer version of the ADL cars which Goninan had previously built for the suburban lines in Perth (since exported to Auckland).
I am going on the facts the name is the same as the class 150, the have the same seating arrangement (2+3), drivers cab is almost exactly the same, etc. So I assume the design is based on them.  The VLine Spinters are both longer, by 5 metres, wider and a good deal heavier (51 v 35 tons) than the class 150's. Note: The class 150's minimum consist is 2 cars, the VLine Sprinters can (and have) run as single cars.

woodford
woodford
The Class 150 has a mild steel body based on the BR MkIII carriage while the Sprinter is stainless steel.
The Class 150 has British made water cooled Cummins NT 855 diesel engines while the Sprinter uses air cooled Deutz engines.

I don't think there is anything common, except possibly the Voith transmission.

Peter
  woodford Chief Commissioner

I thought the Sprinter was a wider and longer version of the ADL cars which Goninan had previously built for the suburban lines in Perth (since exported to Auckland).
I am going on the facts the name is the same as the class 150, the have the same seating arrangement (2+3), drivers cab is almost exactly the same, etc. So I assume the design is based on them.  The VLine Spinters are both longer, by 5 metres, wider and a good deal heavier (51 v 35 tons) than the class 150's. Note: The class 150's minimum consist is 2 cars, the VLine Sprinters can (and have) run as single cars.

woodford
The Class 150 has a mild steel body based on the BR MkIII carriage while the Sprinter is stainless steel.
The Class 150 has British made water cooled Cummins NT 855 diesel engines while the Sprinter uses air cooled Deutz engines.

I don't think there is anything common, except possibly the Voith transmission.

Peter
M636C
These could easily be construction joices after the basic  design has been settled. It being VERY VERY VERY difficult to design something successfully from scratch, so the of design of most things are based on an existing success full design. I believe the Deutz engines were chosen for the VLine Sprinters as they did not require a radiator system which saved a consderable amount of money and Deutz stated the engines could handle the Victorian summers with no issue.

woodford
  jakar Assistant Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
They DEFINITELY have run single car sprinter services
woodford

Yep, they have, they no longer can though. Can't recall when the ban came into effect but its been a while.

You will still see them putting around yards such as Seymour and SCS as a single unit but no further.
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

Well, they were failing to activate level crossings way back in '96 so it might have been then! Razz
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

VicSig photos of 7007 at Frankston at the bottom of the page:
http://vicsig.net/passenger/railmotor/7007/Sprinter

Presumably this is axle-counter territory.
  woodford Chief Commissioner

They DEFINITELY have run single car sprinter services

Yep, they have, they no longer can though. Can't recall when the ban came into effect but its been a while.

You will still see them putting around yards such as Seymour and SCS as a single unit but no further.
jakar
It was only a few years ago, the 0700 sunday morning service (ie the first train), so what ever the problem was they have fixed it.

woodford
  woodford Chief Commissioner

They DEFINITELY have run single car sprinter services

Yep, they have, they no longer can though. Can't recall when the ban came into effect but its been a while.

You will still see them putting around yards such as Seymour and SCS as a single unit but no further.
It was only a few years ago, the 0700 sunday morning service (ie the first train), so what ever the problem was they have fixed it.
I was surprised to see a single Spinter turn up for the service but the driver seemed quite happy.

woodford
woodford
  ab123 Chief Train Controller

No single sprinter operation on track circuited lines has been the case for the past 6-7 years after iirc there was issues at Werribee

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