SA to keep Overland running

 
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Not sure why with the Overland down to 2 x a week, they simply don't cancel it as a separate train and just run the The Ghan from Melbourne.

Previously The Ghan's biggest competition from Melbourne was The Overland.

The report comment is interesting, 20 years of subsidies based on short term subsidy arrangements. What is the longterm plan, if indeed it should have one at all?

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  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
And 3 years later here we go again!

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-08-26/overland-train-service-between-melbourne-and-adelaide-in-doubt/10166190

BG
Beat me to it Brenton - Vicki Chapman didn't really mince words did she, appears as though they don't want to throw money at it any longer. Wonder if the latest patronage figures are even lower than before, she appears to allude to the fact that nobody is using it.
don_dunstan

I doubt VC would have a clue. She's no doubt just repeating cliched comments she's overheard at the parliamentary bar.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
And 3 years later here we go again!

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-08-26/overland-train-service-between-melbourne-and-adelaide-in-doubt/10166190

BG
Beat me to it Brenton - Vicki Chapman didn't really mince words did she, appears as though they don't want to throw money at it any longer. Wonder if the latest patronage figures are even lower than before, she appears to allude to the fact that nobody is using it.

I doubt VC would have a clue. She's no doubt just repeating cliched comments she's overheard at the parliamentary bar.
bingley hall
All the same I'd be interested to know what the latest figures are - she actually said that patronage was diminishing and they would have to "have a look at that". Doesn't sound promising.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
Has Victoria confirmed that it is prepared to continue it's subsidies? With all the talk about extending V/Line services into the Wimmera they may not be too keen on a long term deal for the Overland.

As much as I love it (grew up living near the South Main line at Glenalta) the poor old thing has been on life support for a long time now and it doesn't seem like a miracle cure is coming any time soon.

BG
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
Not sure why with the Overland down to 2 x a week, they simply don't cancel it as a separate train and just run the The Ghan from Melbourne.

Previously The Ghan's biggest competition from Melbourne was The Overland.

The report comment is interesting, 20 years of subsidies based on short term subsidy arrangements. What is the longterm plan, if indeed it should have one at all?
RTT_Rules
Sounds to me that the Ghan to Melbourne could make a lot of sense then as a premium tourist train which would run separately to VLine services that might be more local and stop at say Horsham...
  s3_gunzel Not a gunzel developer

Location: Western Sydney, AU
If you look at the web site of gsr and prices you will find no econamy fares now on the ghan or indian pacific trains only want to concentrate on the upper market of tourism..
gary george
Considering there's no longer Red Kangaroo cars on - at least - the Indian Pacific, this is not surprising.
  greasyrhys Chief Commissioner

Location: MacDonald Park, SA
Best to put the Overdue out of its misery, & best for a V/Line service to run to Horsham/Dimboola.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Not sure why with the Overland down to 2 x a week, they simply don't cancel it as a separate train and just run the The Ghan from Melbourne.

Previously The Ghan's biggest competition from Melbourne was The Overland.

The report comment is interesting, 20 years of subsidies based on short term subsidy arrangements. What is the longterm plan, if indeed it should have one at all?
Sounds to me that the Ghan to Melbourne could make a lot of sense then as a premium tourist train which would run separately to VLine services that might be more local and stop at say Horsham...
james.au
They did try that (direct Ghan services originating from Melbourne) not long after gauge conversion permitted it but it didn't work, not sure why.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Not sure why with the Overland down to 2 x a week, they simply don't cancel it as a separate train and just run the The Ghan from Melbourne.
RTT_Rules
As above, this was tried after gauge conversion all the way to Melbourne but for some reason didn't really work - I'm guessing that Adelaide is a better starting point for the Ghan for whatever reason.
Previously The Ghan's biggest competition from Melbourne was The Overland. The report comment is interesting, 20 years of subsidies based on short term subsidy arrangements. What is the longterm plan, if indeed it should have one at all?
RTT_Rules
Again, not sure that any sort of a tourist operation Melbourne-Adelaide is really that viable for reasons that have been done to death on this thread (and others). As others have already mentioned the VIC government may also agree to let the existing train go if only so they can focus on improving the buses or possibly in the future looking at a service back to Horsham/Dimboola depending on what happens with gauge conversion Ballarat-Ararat I guess.
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
@don_dunstan, @RTT_Rules stated it was because the Overland was its competition.  Without Overland, the Ghan might be more sustainable as a subsidy free business.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
@don_dunstan, @RTT_Rules stated it was because the Overland was its competition.  Without Overland, the Ghan might be more sustainable as a subsidy free business.
james.au
No, James, I don't believe that would be the reason. It's more likely that the route itself is not appealing to premium tourist traffic.
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
@don_dunstan, @RTT_Rules stated it was because the Overland was its competition.  Without Overland, the Ghan might be more sustainable as a subsidy free business.
No, James, I don't believe that would be the reason. It's more likely that the route itself is not appealing to premium tourist traffic.
don_dunstan
Which is inconsistent with the argument being made by the SA Opposition who are saying that the Overland is a source of feed for the Ghan...
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
The Overland would feed the Ghan but this could have dropped since the motorail was dropped on the Overland.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
@don_dunstan, @RTT_Rules stated it was because the Overland was its competition.  Without Overland, the Ghan might be more sustainable as a subsidy free business.
No, James, I don't believe that would be the reason. It's more likely that the route itself is not appealing to premium tourist traffic.
Which is inconsistent with the argument being made by the SA Opposition who are saying that the Overland is a source of feed for the Ghan...
james.au
As Bevans says above, there's no Motorail on any of the services any longer. As Vicki Champion pointed out, it's air travel that's killed the Overland and even though it's only a "budget" service with Red Class sitting up only it just can't compete with Tiger Air and Jetstar.

It's not a bad thing if the Overland finally dies, not even GSR really wanted to run it any more. Something better might eventually replace it.
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
@don_dunstan, @RTT_Rules stated it was because the Overland was its competition.  Without Overland, the Ghan might be more sustainable as a subsidy free business.
No, James, I don't believe that would be the reason. It's more likely that the route itself is not appealing to premium tourist traffic.
Which is inconsistent with the argument being made by the SA Opposition who are saying that the Overland is a source of feed for the Ghan...
As Bevans says above, there's no Motorail on any of the services any longer. As Vicki Champion pointed out, it's air travel that's killed the Overland and even though it's only a "budget" service with Red Class sitting up only it just can't compete with Tiger Air and Jetstar.

It's not a bad thing if the Overland finally dies, not even GSR really wanted to run it any more. Something better might eventually replace it.
don_dunstan
I agree with all youre saying.  IMO SG long distance VLos to serve Horsham with a well designed bus service will be far better for Western Vic than the Overland.  Im just of the view that sans Overland, a Ghan extension to Melbourne may actually work, even if it was a shorter consist.  IDK im just theorising here.
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

Won't be any Crows or Port Adelaide fans to boost patronage this AFL finals series.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Won't be any Crows or Port Adelaide fans to be boost patronage this AFL finals series.
kitchgp
This was the other problem, they'd long since stopped running special trains for footy or cricket etc. GSR just didn't care, the only reason they were operating the service at all was because the SA/VIC governments were paying them to do it, it wasn't responsive to demand.
  allan Chief Commissioner

If it was a horse...
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
I agree with all youre saying.  IMO SG long distance VLos to serve Horsham with a well designed bus service will be far better for Western Vic than the Overland.  Im just of the view that sans Overland, a Ghan extension to Melbourne may actually work, even if it was a shorter consist.  IDK im just theorising here.
james.au
I wonder if a long distance Velo will be suitable to run to Adelaide ala XPT.

BG
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
@don_dunstan, @RTT_Rules stated it was because the Overland was its competition.  Without Overland, the Ghan might be more sustainable as a subsidy free business.
No, James, I don't believe that would be the reason. It's more likely that the route itself is not appealing to premium tourist traffic.
Which is inconsistent with the argument being made by the SA Opposition who are saying that the Overland is a source of feed for the Ghan...
james.au

They would have as much a clue as Vickie Razz

I am surprised that after all that is discussed in the lounge, people still give credibility to what our pollies say.

Let's not forget that most of them get their facts from 20-something apparatchicks who have no concept of the real world. Someone told Vickie's minder 10 years ago that the Overland was losing patronage, so why bother going out and do any research when you have a ready made bit of hearsay to be going on with, that at least makes it look like you know what you are talking about.

Vickie also said that flying/cheap flights had had an impact. True, but 25 years ago just called and said it would like it's news back.

Same with the Opposition - they are probably quoting from the last subsidy submission made by Great Southern Rail, that no-one ever bothered checking to see whether or not it was an accurate statement.
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
@don_dunstan, @RTT_Rules stated it was because the Overland was its competition.  Without Overland, the Ghan might be more sustainable as a subsidy free business.
No, James, I don't believe that would be the reason. It's more likely that the route itself is not appealing to premium tourist traffic.
Which is inconsistent with the argument being made by the SA Opposition who are saying that the Overland is a source of feed for the Ghan...

They would have as much a clue as Vickie Razz

I am surprised that after all that is discussed in the lounge, people still give credibility to what our pollies say.

Let's not forget that most of them get their facts from 20-something apparatchicks who have no concept of the real world. Someone told Vickie's minder 10 years ago that the Overland was losing patronage, so why bother going out and do any research when you have a ready made bit of hearsay to be going on with, that at least makes it look like you know what you are talking about.

Vickie also said that flying/cheap flights had had an impact. True, but 25 years ago just called and said it would like it's news back.

Same with the Opposition - they are probably quoting from the last subsidy submission made by Great Southern Rail, that no-one ever bothered checking to see whether or not it was an accurate statement.
bingley hall
All true
Whats your perspective on this one BH? Do you think it will/should continue or not?
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
All true
Whats your perspective on this one BH? Do you think it will/should continue or not?
james.au

I was hoping no-one was going to ask Laughing

Let me give it some thought and I'll respond later tonight.
  BigShunter Chief Commissioner

Location: St Clair. S.A.
I agree with all youre saying.  IMO SG long distance VLos to serve Horsham with a well designed bus service will be far better for Western Vic than the Overland.  Im just of the view that sans Overland, a Ghan extension to Melbourne may actually work, even if it was a shorter consist.  IDK im just theorising here.
I wonder if a long distance Velo will be suitable to run to Adelaide ala XPT.

BG
BrentonGolding
Yep, I know all this has been done to death, but someone has to have an imagination. Should install some in the pollies, just for good measure.

The standard gauge Velo Shocked dingaling , may change, things for the west, in the future. Someone, in all of these threads, suggested, The Overland, dock at Ararat and be serviced by their PT's to Melbourne, would be a good stop gap, for the short term, say 5 years and with the new Velo coming into operation and mounting pressure for PT's to Horsham, then have the Overland, stop here, for patrons to board, Horsham's new service Rolling Eyes .  

With a longer term view, taking up Brendans Razz point, above.

BigShunter.

no getting into fisty cuff's BG
  justarider Chief Commissioner

Location: Free at last, free at last
I agree with all youre saying.  IMO SG long distance VLos to serve Horsham with a well designed bus service will be far better for Western Vic than the Overland.  Im just of the view that sans Overland, a Ghan extension to Melbourne may actually work, even if it was a shorter consist.  IDK im just theorising here.
I wonder if a long distance Velo will be suitable to run to Adelaide ala XPT.

BG
Yep, I know all this has been done to death, but someone has to have an imagination. Should install some in the pollies, just for good measure.

The standard gauge Velo Shocked dingaling , may change, things for the west, in the future. Someone, in all of these threads, suggested, The Overland, dock at Ararat and be serviced by their PT's to Melbourne, would be a good stop gap, for the short term, say 5 years and with the new Velo coming into operation and mounting pressure for PT's to Horsham, then have the Overland, stop here, for patrons to board, Horsham's new service Rolling Eyes .  

With a longer term view, taking up Brendans Razz point, above.

BigShunter.

no getting into fisty cuff's BG
BigShunter
this is getting into the area @potatoinmymouth suggested that need to shave 2 hours off the run time (big bucks) for the Melb-Adelaide route to survive.

That's why I raised the ugly word SG conversion.

You can shave 1 hour off the trip immediately.
From Melbourne, just catch the Vlo to Ararat (BG) instead of going around the playground on SG.

Hub for Ararat I say.   BUT have to wait for SG Vlo to be built.

Nothing wrong with changing trains at a pleasant, well designed and well connected station.
I used to like the tea-room stop on the old Overland.Rolling Eyes

cheers
John
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

‘Twas me, BigShunter, before I realised I was on a runt thread.

15 years ago, when RFR was underway, there was no evidence that modest improvements to comfort, frequency and journey time would cause massive patronage growth. The government of the day took a huge risk and it paid off better than could realistically have been expected.

Now the evidence is there for all to see - build it and they will come. It takes only small improvements - journey times competitive with the car, modern rollingstock, frequency that makes regular travel possible - and Victorians will flock to the trains once more.

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