Murray Basin standardisation

 
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
You are correct in that there is one gauge too many in Victoria Dan. The problem is your backing the wrong gauge. If victoria didn't have SG it would have lost this recent traffic from western Victoria to Bomaderry of grain. What would have happened instead is that grain would have been purchased from WA instead.
Do you happen to remember a thing called bogie exchange that was and still is used worldwide?
Dangersdan707
In Australia that is known as exchanging modes to trucks.

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  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
You are correct in that there is one gauge too many in Victoria Dan
Technically 2 - there was some NG too Wink
james.au
3 Actually, the other NG (3,6) in Geelong (cement network)
No wait, Four! the other-other Ng (3,0) in Poletown (however you spell it)
No, Again Five! the smaller NG  (2,0) in Alexandra
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
You are correct in that there is one gauge too many in Victoria Dan
Technically 2 - there was some NG too Wink
3 Actually, the other NG (3,6) in Geelong (cement network)
No wait, Four! the other-other Ng (3,0) in Poletown (however you spell it)
No, Again Five! the smaller NG  (2,0) in Alexandra
Dangersdan707
Correct - vie grouped them all together.

Now dan, if you love BG, and hate SG, is your hatred for NG even more?  Ie is it a linear hatred?
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
You are correct in that there is one gauge too many in Victoria Dan
Technically 2 - there was some NG too Wink
3 Actually, the other NG (3,6) in Geelong (cement network)
No wait, Four! the other-other Ng (3,0) in Poletown (however you spell it)
No, Again Five! the smaller NG  (2,0) in Alexandra
Correct - vie grouped them all together.

Now dan, if you love BG, and hate SG, is your hatred for NG even more?  Ie is it a linear hatred?
Nah all the NG was for Industrial only, so it's tolerable.  I don't Hate SG I just don't tolerate it. I can put up with Dual Gauge and both gauges side by side. However, I can't forget when NSW at the last Minute changed gauges and did not allow the Silverton Tramway and TAR to be built to 5,3.
End Rant
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

There’s a splendid PhD thesis just waiting to be written on the politics of the standard gauge and its emergence as a “standard”.

I’d argue the point of no return was probably the NE SG in Victoria - if the VR had emerged from the war more politically and fiscally astute than it did we might have seen a very different series of events. It would have been an even worse mess than we see presently!
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
There’s a splendid PhD thesis just waiting to be written on the politics of the standard gauge and its emergence as a “standard”.

I’d argue the point of no return was probably the NE SG in Victoria - if the VR had emerged from the war more politically and fiscally astute than it did we might have seen a very different series of events. It would have been an even worse mess than we see presently!
potatoinmymouth
In the Australian context there already is one.  PM me and ill email it to you.

Id say the war was long lost by the time the NESG went in - that was the white flag of surrender moment, thankfully.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

However, I can't forget when NSW at the last Minute changed gauges and did not allow the Silverton Tramway and TAR to be built to 5,3.
End Rant
Dangersdan707

If you can remember that far back does that make you 160 years old?
  Mufreight Train Controller

Location: North Ipswich
However, I can't forget when NSW at the last Minute changed gauges and did not allow the Silverton Tramway and TAR to be built to 5,3.
End Rant

If you can remember that far back does that make you 160 years old?
simstrain
That we now have standard gauge as the predominant gauge in this country has many benefits if only the procurement on locos and rolling stock technology from overseas.
  lkernan Deputy Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
However, I can't forget when NSW at the last Minute changed gauges and did not allow the Silverton Tramway and TAR to be built to 5,3.
End Rant

If you can remember that far back does that make you 160 years old?
simstrain

He's the guy driving in the last spike.
  BigShunter Chief Commissioner

Location: St Clair. S.A.
Train Order working between Maryborough and Ararat to start soon with two block points to allow follow on moves.Line speed still a pathetic 25 kmh, supposed to go up to breathtaking 40 kmh soon. With concrete sleepers and 80lb rail and 8 months of traffic it should be minimum 65 kmh by now.
kuldalai
kuldalai, just wondering what is the speed limit, through towns ? The quoted speed for the entire line was 80 kph and that seems appropriate, through the Wimmera and Mallee, will they get to 80 k on this line, if not, what's your estimate or what could or should be Razz are curves, hills or bridges, going to impede the speed Laughing

BigShunter.
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
Train Order working between Maryborough and Ararat to start soon with two block points to allow follow on moves.Line speed still a pathetic 25 kmh, supposed to go up to breathtaking 40 kmh soon. With concrete sleepers and 80lb rail and 8 months of traffic it should be minimum 65 kmh by now.
kuldalai, just wondering what is the speed limit, through towns ? The quoted speed for the entire line was 80 kph and that seems appropriate, through the Wimmera and Mallee, will they get to 80 k on this line, if not, what's your estimate or what could or should be Razz are curves, hills or bridges, going to impede the speed Laughing

BigShunter.
BigShunter
@BigShunter

This might help - most sections are 80kph but there are some that are lower like St Arnaud etc suggesting there are lower speed limits through some of the built up areas.

https://corporate.vline.com.au/CMSModules/SharePoint/CMSPages/GetSharePointFile.ashx?connectionname=VNAP&fileref=%2fNetworkServicesPlan%2fTrain+Operating+Data+-+List+of+all+V-Line+Lines%2f24+-+Maryborough+to+Yelta+R07-2018+NA_NSP_02-24.pdf&cacheminutes=5&cachefilesize=1024&hash=4a2102e7889aa7eabcbdeb5288525272ef5e037c181ab57c03e4551d3b69cb0b
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
Yep.  Thanks PIMM.  Fixed mine also.  Must be something with the coding.
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
Interesting calls from people in Ballarat - supportive of SG to Geelong and elsewhere in the Western Vic network...

https://www.railpage.com.au/downloads?mode=download.view&id=1138
  BigShunter Chief Commissioner

Location: St Clair. S.A.
Thanks james, probably didn't make that clear, I was referring to the geometry of the track ( ararat / m'borough ) for 80 k line speed.

BigShunter.
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

The usual apologies but I frankly have no idea where the discussion I'm about to revive ought to continue.

I think Mr Guy has updated his Donald proposal to include some actual detail.

https://www.matthewguy.com.au/media-release/guy-passenger-trains-to-return-to-dunolly-st-arnaud-and-donald-under-the-liberal-nationals/

With gauge conversion currently in progress on the Mildura line, this will eventually see passengers change trains at Ballarat for their trip to Donald, once dual gauging has been extended in the final stages of the Murray Basin rail project. Four return services will operate each weekday, with two return services operating on weekends and existing VLocity trains to be gauge converted to operate the standard gauge service.
Matthew Guy
Don't be fooled on the date; I struggle to believe this wouldn't have been picked up by the press had it been included the first time around. As it was I picked it up in a Bendigo Addy article about the new Bendigo Metro stations. Possibly the Libs got their act together after the MBRP plans were rearranged.

Anyway, mentioning the gauge issue, presenting a solution (the solid-gold Railpage solution, no less!), and providing a sensible level of service (even if it might be overkill) gives this proposal a whole lot more credibility in my book.
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
The usual apologies but I frankly have no idea where the discussion I'm about to revive ought to continue.

I think Mr Guy has updated his Donald proposal to include some actual detail.

https://www.matthewguy.com.au/media-release/guy-passenger-trains-to-return-to-dunolly-st-arnaud-and-donald-under-the-liberal-nationals/

With gauge conversion currently in progress on the Mildura line, this will eventually see passengers change trains at Ballarat for their trip to Donald, once dual gauging has been extended in the final stages of the Murray Basin rail project. Four return services will operate each weekday, with two return services operating on weekends and existing VLocity trains to be gauge converted to operate the standard gauge service.
Don't be fooled on the date; I struggle to believe this wouldn't have been picked up by the press had it been included the first time around. As it was I picked it up in a Bendigo Addy article about the new Bendigo Metro stations. Possibly the Libs got their act together after the MBRP plans were rearranged.

Anyway, mentioning the gauge issue, presenting a solution (the solid-gold Railpage solution, no less!), and providing a sensible level of service (even if it might be overkill) gives this proposal a whole lot more credibility in my book.
potatoinmymouth
Hmm.  Things might happen then.
But the part that confuses me is "once dual gauging has been extended.....".  We should tell Matt that you dont need DG if youve got SG Vlos.

EDIT: The other thing to note - once the Libs made a big announcement of (IIRC) $70m for new rollingstock for the Shepparton line (which has since been announced by Labor too), Labor came and topped that with the (also IIRC) $313m announcement for line upgrades etc plus the carriages.  Perhaps this may lead to a similar change in direction by Labor.  Now they've had time to work out the FPSP a little bit, perhaps they can announce pre election?
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

Now they've had time to work out the FPSP a little bit, perhaps they can announce pre election?
james.au

I would have thought so too but then the half-baked Dunolly announcement makes little to no sense. But the way things are going if they announce anything new in that quarter it’ll be the Full Mildura Monty.
  justarider Chief Commissioner

Location: Free at last, free at last
The usual apologies but I frankly have no idea where the discussion I'm about to revive ought to continue.

I think Mr Guy has updated his Donald proposal to include some actual detail.

https://www.matthewguy.com.au/media-release/guy-passenger-trains-to-return-to-dunolly-st-arnaud-and-donald-under-the-liberal-nationals/

With gauge conversion currently in progress on the Mildura line, this will eventually see passengers change trains at Ballarat for their trip....
Don't be fooled on the date; I struggle to believe this wouldn't have been picked up by the press had it been included the first time around. As it was I picked it up in a Bendigo Addy article about the new Bendigo Metro stations. Possibly the Libs got their act together after the MBRP plans were rearranged.

Anyway, mentioning the gauge issue, presenting a solution (the solid-gold Railpage solution, no less!), and providing a sensible level of service (even if it might be overkill) gives this proposal a whole lot more credibility in my book.
potatoinmymouth
some clever politics, since the FPSP and Vlo/SG projects are underway (on paper)

IF MG wins (ha ha) he can say, "look what I have given you"
if MG loses, can say "I suggested it"

What confuses me about the whole idea of DG is why bother???

Isn't the Basin plan to be full SG from SeaLake and Manangatang to Geelong. ?
Wouldn't the effort to finish that be a priority, instead of the half pregnant Dunolly to Ballarat.
Then the Vlo/SG from Ballarat northwards becomes straight forward - maybe even Ballarat/Geelong back again.

EDIT: light bulb moment. Sealake/Manangatang - Geelong will remain BG freight forever. Nobody will ever admit it.

cheers
John
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
EDIT: light bulb moment. Sealake/Manangatang - Geelong will remain BG freight forever. Nobody will ever admit it.
justarider
Yeah ive been thinking about this too (somewhat anxiously) - but the project is not just about knocking the track across a few inches, its also about giving a 2 TAL increase, which the farmers are wanting to increase productivity and lower costs.  So
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
Dual Gauge Already exists to Dunolly, So it makes sense to leave it there as it would have very little effect on SG operations.
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
EDIT: light bulb moment. Sealake/Manangatang - Geelong will remain BG freight forever. Nobody will ever admit it.
Yeah ive been thinking about this too (somewhat anxiously) - but the project is not just about knocking the track across a few inches, its also about giving a 2 TAL increase, which the farmers are wanting to increase productivity and lower costs.  So
james.au
That would be a dream come true
  justarider Chief Commissioner

Location: Free at last, free at last
Dual Gauge Already exists to Dunolly, So it makes sense to leave it there as it would have very little effect on SG operations.
Dangersdan707
Indeed yes,
SG otherwise Yelta to Ararat (and Portland or Melbourne) is impossible.
BG (status quo) for Sea Lake etc. to Geelong or Melbourne.

DG conversion from Maryborough to Ballarat will just slow down the BG services.
Have Mary pax figured that out yet? Only hope is convert Vlo to SG to get speed back.

cheers
John
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

.....................................................
EDIT: light bulb moment. Sealake/Manangatang - Geelong will remain BG freight forever. Nobody will ever admit it.
justarider
Would mean either DG Maryborough - Gheringhap or Mildura condemned to via Ararat (+270 km round trip) forever.
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
.....................................................
EDIT: light bulb moment. Sealake/Manangatang - Geelong will remain BG freight forever. Nobody will ever admit it.
Would mean either DG Maryborough - Gheringhap or Mildura condemned to via Ararat (+270 km round trip) forever.
kitchgp
Unless it's Reconverted to BG

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