If any dive is going to happen in that area RTT it will have to be to the east of homebush and not the west with a tunnel from there to lidcombe for the suburban. Locals can stay above ground to service homebush and flemington. Why the heck would you waste time and effort just to move the inner west service to Olympic park for. That is a stupid idea that would drag the network even further into quagmire and the same would apply to transtopics carlingford line idea.
Because Homebush is a highly inconveniently place to terminate trains, it only receives 2 trains per hour heading further west off peak, compared to other suburban stations which receive 4. And Olympic Park is a highly inefficient shuttle, thankfully the services were cut down to 4 carriages on weekdays, but on weekends, it receives 8 carriage DD trains (Waratahs) running on a 10 minute frequency, on a 5 minute services, between only two stations, on a late Sunday night.
Also, the Carlingford Line was my (Ethan1395)
, no one else, idea, not Transtopics. Should the Carlingford Line die, I would move my attention to the Olympic Park Line, which is now being discussed.
Hope that clears things up
- Clyde is a waste of space, its proximity to Granville is such that its quicker to walk to Granville than wait for the next train (Google says 9min, but its possible to reduce by 2-3min if they wanted to very cheaply). Its prime function is junction station for Carlingford Line. Moving it is a waste of money and not practical as you cannot move it closer to Auburn.
- Eskinville and St Peters and potentially Redfern should not be on the southern Coast services, the route is already long and painful enough. Who from the South Coast is travelling to the Eskinville and St Peters? Basically no one. So if its a 3 seat journey, who cares.
- Tempe, I agree it would be better placed about 400-500m north, Wolli Creek is not the issue as there is no easy pedestrian access between the two across the river. Maybe closure of Tempe (If I recall the usage is actually low) outright is a more efficient solution with easy walking access provided to Wolli Creek, but this won't happen. Best way is to not have the same train service service both stations to save time.
- If I recall correctly, either Birrong or Yagoona gets very little usage. I think its Birrong. If the Metro was to be extended west to Liverpool directly, a new station could be build south of Yagoona to service this area and then the Bankstown to Junction line closed. The all Liverpool trains via Reagents park would need to run via Straithfield to the city. Currently no capacity to do so, you need a 4th pair of tracks or western Metro depopulate the Western services so much you open up slots.
- What is the distance between Granville and Auburn though? Wouldn't a station in between prove beneficial to serve the local area?
- South Coast Line services should most certainly NOT stop at Erskineville and St Peters or even Redfern, I am strongly against intercity services stopping at adjacent stations, you must have misread my post, I said that South Coast Line services should stop at Sydenham (instead of Redfern) so South Coast to Bankstown is not a 3 seat journey.
- If you go the Wikipedia article for any suburban or intercity station, it states the daily patronage in 2013-2014, if you don't trust Wikipedia, you can find the same information here
, at the bottom of this post, I will list the 2013-14 patronage of all the stations currently being discussed. As for Tempe, it might get more patronage in a more useful location, closer to IKEA and other businesses in the area. I imagine most people living near Tempe station go to Wolli Creek to get more services.
- It's Birrong that gets little usage, but it only services a residential area so you can't expect too much patronage, so it's important nethertheless, and on top of that, the line from Lidcombe to Bankstown is important as it provides a north-south link that Sydney needs more of.
I'm puzzled by your reference to my "Carlingford Line idea". The only thing I've mentioned is the bleedingly obvious proposal to close the line altogether.
He got you mixed up with me, I suggested connecting the Carlingford Line to Homebush terminators, and if the Carlingford Line dies, I would turn my attention to connecting the Olympic Park Line to Homebush terminators, which is now being discussed.
2. They aren't and never will be. They might however be on the illawarra or t8 via sydenham line post bankstown metro.
3. Tempe already gets skipped by most illawarra services already.
All stops T4 Illawarra Services should stop at Erskineville and St Peters (it will improve connectivity, no more short 3 seat journeys travelling from the East Hills Line to St Peters or Erskineville. Just as long as they receive 4 trains per hour as they currently do, currently Tempe, Arncliffe, and Banksia only receive 2 trains per hour, yet Carlton and Allawah receive 4, the other stations should receive 4 trains per hour also.
6. While the current government is in charge look for more metro lines rather then any new DD infrastructure.
Opening of the Metro tram in Newcastle
Well now that it's been mentioned, maybe a good way to improve efficiency in Sydney is to not just focus on Sydney, by which I mean public transport elsewhere, and in this case, Newcastle, we talk about taking the strain off Town Hall and Wynyard, how about taking the strain off Sydney?
Why is the population staying in Sydney despite rising property prices? probably because of employment opportunities, and usable public transport, something not present Newcastle,
2.5km of light rail is not going to be enough, rebuidling the old suburban system with new intermediate stations would be a better start, but that's another topic
No one has been suggesting that South Coast Intercity Trains stop at St Peters and Erskineville!!!!
I don't think it would be appropriate for Campbelltown express services to stop at these inner city stations.Yet it is appropriate for Wollongong and Kiama "express" services to stop there - or at least transit through there in a time as if they have stopped?
There is another reason to have Campbelltown/East Hills via Sydenham services stop at St Peters and Erskinville: to ensure they have the *same* transit time from Turella to Central, so they can occupy the same timetable slot.
Alternatively, via Sydenham needs to be *exactly* 6 minutes faster (which can be achieved by tinkering with/adding stops between Revesby and Wolli Ck of Via Airport services.
(NB even this 6min faster approach creates timetabling problems: it potentially leaves a hole in the timeable somewhere else with nothing to fill it).
Clearly there has been a mix up, I (Ethan1395)
, no one else, suggested that South Coast Intercity Services stop at Sydenham so South Coast to Bankstown is not a 3 seat journey, and that all-stops Illawarra suburban services stop at St Peters and Erskineville with 4 trains per hour so East Hills Line to St Peters/Erskineville is not a 3 seat journey.
Hope that clears things up
Now that's cleared up - if Campbelltown via Sydenham and Campbelltown via Airport take the exact same time, is there even any point of Campbelltown via Sydenham besides keeping airport passengers of peak hour Campbelltown services?
This goes back to the point of needing more CBD lines, with everything bottlenecking through the City Circle, things need to be exactly 6 minutes faster, or need to take the same time as the slow route, new CBD such as a new City Circle and new lines through the CBD for trains heading north.
I wasn't suggesting that South Coast Intercity trains should stop at St Peters and Erskineville, or even run on the Illawarra Main through to Bondi Junction, rather that these stations should be serviced by Illawarra Line trains from Hurstville/ Cronulla/Waterfall with an all stops operating pattern from Wolli Creek through to Bondi Junction.
I suggested that the Illawarra Local, freed from the Bankstown Line, could run as purely express tracks, catering for Campbelltown express services via the East Hills Line, South Coast Intercity, future Southern Highlands direct Intercity and Southern NSW Regional services. A crossover would have to be installed between the Local and Main north of the junction with the ESR at Erskineville to allow access to the Illawarra Dive to Sydney Terminal for the Intercity and Regional services. Campbelltown Suburban services would continue on the Local to the City Circle.
I very much lie what you have suggested, keeping South Coast services out of the ESR allows the services (combined with the new trains that won't even fit the ESR platforms when operating as 10 carriages) to be better marketed as intercity services, allows for more suburban trains on the ESR, and helps keep suburban passengers off overcrowded South Coast trains.
I wonder if more frequent South Coast services, Southern Highland services running to Central, more regional services, and more Macarthur/Campbelltown via Sydenham services could still justify sextuplication from Wolli Creek (with additional platforms) to Erskineville - Tempe station could be moved to a more useful location during construction of said sextuplication.DAILY PATROANGE (2013-14) OF STATIONS BEING DISCUSSED:
- Clyde - 710 (not including Carlingford Line interchanges)
- Tempe - 1,190
- Sydenham - 5,620 (not including interchanges between lines)
- St Peters - 3,380
- Erskineville - 1,960
- Birrong - 980
- Yagoona - 2,030
- Homebush - 1,910
- Olympic Park 2,600
- Carlingford - 370
- Arncliffe - 1,740
- Banksia - 1,400
- Carlon - 1,540
- Allawah - 1,760