Melbourne Metro Rail Project Revived

 
Topic moved from News by bevans on 16 Feb 2015 17:54
  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: Gheringhap Loop Autonomous Zone

  • Cheltenham turnback (not quite sure what this is getting at - doesn't it already exist? Vicsig noted there hadn't been a scheduled Cheltenham service since 1998 but that was in 2006)
Don’t know about that one, is a little strange.
Lockie91
If TFV have any sense, they'll put this in at the same time as they're doing the Cheltenham (Park Rd + Charman Rd) level crossing removal.

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  Lockie91 Assistant Commissioner

Oh yes, forgot about the LX removal. I suspect that LXRA will do the works with the crossing. I wonder if they will do the same at Essendon.
  jdekorte Deputy Commissioner

Location: Near Caulfield Station
Melbourne Metro Authority have released some more planning documents for comment relating to the East portal at South Yarra and the West portal at South Kensington. The documents are quite detailed and provide plans on what they plan to do in the coming months to prepare both sites for major works. The plans at South Yarra include demolishing some properties adjoining the line, demolishing the William St bridge, demolishing part of a brick retaining wall near Chapel St and clearing trees from the South Yarra Sidings park (and that overhanging car park is going to go).  I haven't looked at the West portal plans but I imagine they amount to something similar.

Here is a link to the page and the documents: https://metrotunnel.vic.gov.au/planning/rail-infrastructure-early-works
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

https://www.railpage.com.au/news/s/metro-tunnel-works-ramp-up-with-more-work-and-jobs-to-come
Piling about to start at the Town Hall site.

Easy to be skeptical about the constant stream of press releases I suppose but it’s nice to have regular construction updates on a government project for once.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
https://www.railpage.com.au/news/s/metro-tunnel-works-ramp-up-with-more-work-and-jobs-to-come
Piling about to start at the Town Hall site.

Easy to be skeptical about the constant stream of press releases I suppose but it’s nice to have regular construction updates on a government project for once.
potatoinmymouth

I am assuming there will be quite bit of noise with the driving of the piling into ground?
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

I am assuming there will be quite bit of noise with the driving of the piling into ground?
bevans

I don’t think there’s such a thing as a quiet piling rig.

From the Metro Tunnel website: “This work is expected to generate a medium to high level of noise.”

So yes, the NIMBYs will be awoken but I don’t care, and I doubt anyone involved with the project does either.
  TOQ-1 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Power Trainger
Have they built the acoustic shed at Town Hall yet, or is that coming after the piling?
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

Have they built the acoustic shed at Town Hall yet, or is that coming after the piling?
TOQ-1

Nothing there yet; the website says “later in 2018” and there is no mention of it on the construction impacts page so presumably after the piling is done.
  True Believers Chief Commissioner

https://www.premier.vic.gov.au/work-underway-on-final-piece-of-metro-tunnel-puzzle/

Turnbacks will be built at West Footscray and Hawksburn stations, allowing services to start and end at these stations during timetabled peak periods for the first time, instead of travelling further down the line.

Interesting
  justarider Chief Commissioner

Location: Released again, maybe for the last time??
https://www.premier.vic.gov.au/work-underway-on-final-piece-of-metro-tunnel-puzzle/

Turnbacks will be built at West Footscray and Hawksburn stations, allowing services to start and end at these stations during timetabled peak periods for the first time, instead of travelling further down the line.

Interesting
True Believers
don't wont to brag, but I will anyway
Melbourne Airport Railway Link @ Jul 26,2018 7:51 pm

MM1 doesn't go to SCS, ....
MM1 essentally goes to Dandenong, but could do a short turnback anywhere after South Yarra.
...  cheers John
justarider
now if only the government took notice of all my other Considered Railway Action Plans, then the choice would be so easy.

cheers
John
  TOQ-1 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Power Trainger
Looking at the diagram, the note at Hawksburn is specifically on the Frankston line tracks. I think this will mean that the previously discussed South Yarra short hauls will start (or at least run empty to and from) Hawksburn to avoid modifying tracks on the City Side of South Yarra. Any Metro Tunnel Short Hauls will be at Westall.

This will mean that Platforms 5 and 6 at South Yarra could be given over to V/Line - it might be a good point to hold trains for their path.
  justarider Chief Commissioner

Location: Released again, maybe for the last time??
Looking at the diagram, the note at Hawksburn is specifically on the Frankston line tracks. I think this will mean that the previously discussed South Yarra short hauls will start (or at least run empty to and from) Hawksburn to avoid modifying tracks on the City Side of South Yarra. Any Metro Tunnel Short Hauls will be at Westall.

This will mean that Platforms 5 and 6 at South Yarra could be given over to V/Line - it might be a good point to hold trains for their path.
TOQ-1
well the diagram does point to the Frankston Line, but then it does NOT say building a turn back (West Footscray, does say it).
Deliberate, or sloppy drawing, who could say.

whereas the Press release is talking about the Metro Tunnel, and not the network in general (Frankson included)

I suppose the contradiction is to be expected when the right hand writes what the left hand is thinking - and I don't know which is which either.

cheers
John
  True Believers Chief Commissioner

Not sure how they do the turnback operations at Hawksburn, would they be building a 5th track there?

The Press Release tells that they'll do short runs between West Footscray and Hawksburn, via the Metro Tunnel. But in the diagram says track modifications at Hawksburn?

There is just too little detail there to figure out what they are trying to do at Hawksburn, to allow the short run trains to turnback there
  justarider Chief Commissioner

Location: Released again, maybe for the last time??
If the work is just track upgrade AND a turn back is being provided; jusst think simple ( like a press writer)

DOWN train stops at station
Everybidy off
Driver walks briskly to other end of train ( or change over)
Pax for UP can get on if they are smart enough to realise wrong platfor
Drive reserved and cross over to the UP track.
Back to city we go.

Simples

cheers
John
  John.Z Assistant Commissioner

If the work is just track upgrade AND a turn back is being provided; jusst think simple ( like a press writer)

DOWN train stops at station
Everybidy off
Driver walks briskly to other end of train ( or change over)
Pax for UP can get on if they are smart enough to realise wrong platfor
Drive reserved and cross over to the UP track.
Back to city we go.

Simples

cheers
John
justarider
Simple, but inefficient. Would drastically reduce throughput. A turnback platform between platforms would be needed (for cross interchange, and for less conflict points).
  justarider Chief Commissioner

Location: Released again, maybe for the last time??
I did say simple - like a govr press release.
If you want efficient.  you're in the wrong state.

Anyhouse, the signalling would be horrible - never stopped a dumb idea before.

cheers
John
  John.Z Assistant Commissioner

I did say simple - like a govr press release.
If you want efficient.  you're in the wrong state.

Anyhouse, the signalling would be horrible - never stopped a dumb idea before.

cheers
John
justarider
If West Footscray is getting a 3rd platform, I'd hope they'd do the same at Hawksburn. Two way signalling and a crossover between Richmond and South Yarra would go a fair way too.
  justarider Chief Commissioner

Location: Released again, maybe for the last time??
I did say simple - like a govr press release.
If you want efficient.  you're in the wrong state.

Anyhouse, the signalling would be horrible - never stopped a dumb idea before.

cheers
John
If West Footscray is getting a 3rd platform, I'd hope they'd do the same at Hawksburn. Two way signalling and a crossover between Richmond and South Yarra would go a fair way too.
John.Z
One thing I have observed about govt press releases.
If says that something will be done, then it MIGHT be done. - 3rd West Footscray Platform
If says nothing about an issue, then it will NOT be done. - any Hawksburn platform work

Besides, no room at Hawksburn for a 3rd anyway.

Crossover between Richmond and Sth Yarra assumes that it is the Frankston line under consideration. I'm not so sure about that.

The more I think about a Frankston line turn back, the dafter it sounds.

The stated plan is for Frankston to take over the role of going around the city loop.

WHY would a train run around the loop, come out to Hawksburn, and then turn around and go back in again. A silly little circle that achieves nothing.

Back to my original contention that it is MM1 having a turn back, which also brings MARL into the story.
IF (big if) MARL and SBY is going to city via MM1 then not all of them have to go all the way thru to Dandenong etc..
A turn back then makes sense to boost the throughput for the Airport without unnecessary additional rolling stock.

Don't we all love it when information given is so empty of detail that our fertile imagination can fill all blanks, even ones that are not there. And of course all my other Considered Railway Action Plans.

cheers
John
  John.Z Assistant Commissioner

Except we know that the Airport line won't run through the metro tunnel, and will most likely be a VLine service.

But again, the information is so bare, that it is just as likely that a driverless (potentially) SRL will share tracks between Airport and Sunshine with a Metro/VLine airport express to the city. Evil or Very Mad
  justarider Chief Commissioner

Location: Released again, maybe for the last time??
Except we know that the Airport line won't run through the metro tunnel, and will most likely be a VLine service.

But again, the information is so bare, that it is just as likely that a driverless (potentially) SRL will share tracks between Airport and Sunshine with a Metro/VLine airport express to the city. Evil or Very Mad
John.Z
@John.Z  I should know better by now. When on a roll, shut up.

Let's just say that it is probably MM1 that is having a turn back at Hawksburn, because Frankston line is nonsensical.
Where those turned trains come from is speculation.

cheers
John
  bisnana Station Staff

Assuming both turnbacks will be served by MM1, is there any reason that they couldn't be made further out from the city, say past Sunshine or Caulfield? I would think the inner section would benefit from the increased service overall, and it would make more sense to provide more service out to larger hubs and interchanges than middle of the line stations like West Footscray or Hawksburn.
  justarider Chief Commissioner

Location: Released again, maybe for the last time??
Assuming both turnbacks will be served by MM1, is there any reason that they couldn't be made further out from the city, say past Sunshine or Caulfield? I would think the inner section would benefit from the increased service overall, and it would make more sense to provide more service out to larger hubs and interchanges than middle of the line stations like West Footscray or Hawksburn.
bisnana
Guessing
these 2 stations are the first convenient stop after the tunnel portals, and schedules dictate getting the train back to the other end of the line a.s.a.p.
Why West Footscray ? - probably Footscray too busy and Middle Footscray too cramped.

cheers
John
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

Had a chance to take a good look at West Footscray this morning as I’ve been wondering how the extra platform will be achieved.

It does appear the turnback was part of the RRL spec and for once the powers that be have thought ahead quite well.

The entire footprint of the old north platform has been retained and the stanchions have been arranged in such a way that to spark the new road will simply require stringing up the wires.

The up departure signal will have to be moved to a gantry but that should be relatively straightforward.

Adding an access ramp and lift will also be possible with the bridge at its current site although I suspect an additional pillar or two will be required structurally. There’s no reason for a paid area connection so that helps. I do wonder if the bridge may be rebuilt anyway to include a station office.

Clearly the hope was at the time of the RRL that the whole job could be completed without moving the passenger or goods lines and that still looks to be the case. 10-car HCMTs will present a headache but hopefully by that time there will be some proper plans for Totty and moving the BG yard throat will have been thought through.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
Assuming both turnbacks will be served by MM1, is there any reason that they couldn't be made further out from the city, say past Sunshine or Caulfield? I would think the inner section would benefit from the increased service overall, and it would make more sense to provide more service out to larger hubs and interchanges than middle of the line stations like West Footscray or Hawksburn.
Guessing
these 2 stations are the first convenient stop after the tunnel portals, and schedules dictate getting the train back to the other end of the line a.s.a.p.
Why West Footscray ? - probably Footscray too busy and Middle Footscray too cramped.

cheers
John
justarider
I would say it is also based on weighting the passenger demand for the services. So AM peak for instance you will have trains coming in from the East with a full load and running through the tunnel to Footscray but the capacity from Footscray out to say Sunshine or beyond will not be required. There will already be services running in from Sunbury to pick up pax wanting to travel in to the City so some peak services may simply be timetabled to turn back for that reason.

It could also be for balancing the demand of East side Vs West side passenger numbers. If there are more people coming in from the East side than the West there is no point in running services right out to Sunbury and back if they are all a quarter full. They can't turn them around in the tunnel so as John says, first convenient place, def no room at Footscray proper or Middle Footscray to do it.

It is a clever little piece of design IMHO to have this option.

BG
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

Doesn't explain the need for Hawksburn, although that could be PR-speak, as in duplicating the Avon River bridge.

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