Matthew Guy to reveal $19b plan for 200kmh regional Victoria super trains

 
Topic moved from News by bevans on 16 Oct 2018 09:27
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Starting a new thread for this as it is the first significant rail policy we have seen for some time from the coalition.  I personally think it is a winner but is targeted at regional growth which is good.  

We still need the suburban loop in stages.

We will now need the connection to the main suburban loop stations from these trains.

Matthew Guy to reveal $19b plan for 200kmh regional Victoria super trains

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  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
Me guy backs the ALP plan for the Melbourne airport line and the sunshine super hub.

Getting to 200 km/h quickly if at all will require electrification of the network which is not a bad thing at all.

No frequency mentioned just speed and time taken.
  SinickleBird Assistant Commissioner

Location: Qantas Club at Mudgee International Airport
He is promising timetable changes. D’oh!

And, although the map shows plenty of destinations, still no services to either Mildura or Clunes.
  Carnot Minister for Railways

Potentially an election winner. I would like to see more detail - ie routing of Bendigo trains via airport, reduplication, 25kV electrification, etc etc?
  ParkesHub Chief Commissioner

Unfortunately, the Opposition doesn't have the results from previous PT projects to demonstrate a good "track" record. I like the idea but I reckon it's all a big con job.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Unfortunately, the Opposition doesn't have the results from previous PT projects to demonstrate a good "track" record. I like the idea but I reckon it's all a big con job.
ParkesHub

If guys wins the next election they will forget this and pull all the road projects from the draw and start on them. Zero credibility when it comes to delivery.
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
He is promising timetable changes. D’oh!

And, although the map shows plenty of destinations, still no services to either Mildura or Clunes.
SinickleBird
ANd i thought that this was the announcement that these would be revealed in.  Next one Wink
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
He is promising timetable changes. D’oh!

And, although the map shows plenty of destinations, still no services to either Mildura or Clunes.
ANd i thought that this was the announcement that these would be revealed in.  Next one Wink
james.au

I for one cannot see how this is achievable without the removal of the remaining level crossings on the 4 lines and for gippsland that would be quite a few.

Geelong would make sense to remove first or 200 km/h is restricted to sections.  Also agree electrification is required to make this work efficiently.
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
Policy, shmolicy. It's a wild idea intended to be a vote grabber.
I'll believe it when I see it up and running, and not before.
I am quite sure that Guy and his acolytes have no idea at all about the sheer magnitude of such a project. I wonder who pulled the figure of $19b out of a hat.
The idea of Vic Track, V Line or even Uncle Tom Cobleigh being able to design and/or manage such a project has me laughing hysterically.
  Carnot Minister for Railways

There's some weird aspects of the time shown on the map.  Initial thoughts, along with news of more details mentioned in theage of replacing the tracks between Bendigo and Swan Hill, and Traralgon to Bairnsdale (probably to Class 1 standard):

- Echuca-SCS: 163 minutes.  But Echuca - Bendigo should be 55 min after upgrade so shouldn't it be more like 130-140 min overall?
- Swan Hill - SCS: 179 minutes.  90 min Swan Hill - Bendigo sounds about right with 160 km/h running.

Also, 62 min Traralgon to SCS - would absolutely require dedicated regional rail thru SE Melb suburbs to Pakenham.

Keen to see official details...
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

It’s a big policy, and I’m very happy to see the Coalition actually attempting to take on Labor one way or another with positive ideas instead of just hiding in the shadows with dog-whistling racist rhetoric and the bizarre 55 intersections thing.

Unfortunately as others have said I don’t believe there’s any understanding here of the sheer scale of such a plan.

Nevertheless, it could well be an election winner.
  woodford Chief Commissioner

I have as yet not looked at the technical feasibilty (plan requires detailed studing, things like the Seymour LOOKS to be just to quick), but the Liberals have ZERO credibilty on rail projects, if they get elected they WILL quickly forget this as to expensive, bring out there road projects and only last another single term.They have apparently learned absolutely nothing, What a surprise:(.

woodford
  Carnot Minister for Railways

More dripfeed on his website:  https://www.matthewguy.com.au/media-release/guy-high-speed-rail-for-victoria/

The main points:

- The High Speed Rail project will see the rebuild of much of Victoria’s current Class 1 track to 200 kilometres per hour operation as well as major track improvements on every other passenger rail line.

- A Liberal Nationals Government will fund two new fleets of new-generation, faster, inter-city flyer and long haul variants of the successful V/Locity trains which will provide better comfort and leg room, safety and amenity for passengers.  The first fleet of high speed trains will be delivered in the first term of government with a second fleet of possible double-deck models to follow.

- At the core of the Liberal Nationals plan for a European-style High Speed Rail is the further separation of the regional network from the metropolitan network thus increasing capacity and avoiding a ‘dump and run’ at the end of the suburban rail network.
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

There’s an enormously clever political design to this. “Stage 1”, all that they’ve promised in the first term, is more express services - and we all know how that plays out in the real world, and how little it really represents

But it’ll fool enough people for them to say in 2022 “look, we delivered stage 1, so we have credibility to deliver stage 2 and 3”, but of course, in early 2023, the feasibility studies are finished and it looks like all we can afford is a new paint job on the VLos.
  justarider Chief Commissioner

Location: Released again, maybe for the last time??
There’s an enormously clever political design to this. “Stage 1”, all that they’ve promised in the first term, is more express services - and we all know how that plays out in the real world, and how little it really represents

But it’ll fool enough people for them to say in 2022 “look, we delivered stage 1, so we have credibility to deliver stage 2 and 3”, but of course, in early 2023, the feasibility studies are finished and it looks like all we can afford is a new paint job on the VLos.
potatoinmymouth
more expresses, wow

SCS to Geelong to Warrnambool. sounds great if I lived in Warrnambool.

too bad if I live in Winchelsea, Colac, Camperdown, Terang - apparently they are not Regional enough.

cheers
John
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Two comments on this: the first is that my recollection is originally the Bombardier V/locity were in fact able to reach speeds of 200 km/h (weren't they tested to that speed when they first hit the tracks?) but they may not be insured for those speeds.

Secondly, the LNP in Victoria has a dreadful record of not delivering a single thing - they didn't deliver any of the extensive list of projects promised when they were last elected - why should anyone believe them this time around?
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat Line
There’s an enormously clever political design to this. “Stage 1”, all that they’ve promised in the first term, is more express services - and we all know how that plays out in the real world, and how little it really represents

But it’ll fool enough people for them to say in 2022 “look, we delivered stage 1, so we have credibility to deliver stage 2 and 3”, but of course, in early 2023, the feasibility studies are finished and it looks like all we can afford is a new paint job on the VLos.
more expresses, wow

SCS to Geelong to Warrnambool. sounds great if I lived in Warrnambool.

too bad if I live in Winchelsea, Colac, Camperdown, Terang - apparently they are not Regional enough.

cheers
John
justarider

As much as I'm treating this whole Opposition proposal with a grain of salt, I'm certain r the proposed 'express' operation between Waurn Ponds and Warrnambool would INCLUDE all the current stations.

There's more than enough distance between the stations to allow consistent high speed operation.

Mike.
  justarider Chief Commissioner

Location: Released again, maybe for the last time??
There’s an enormously clever political design to this. “Stage 1”, all that they’ve promised in the first term, is more express services - and we all know how that plays out in the real world, and how little it really represents

But it’ll fool enough people for them to say in 2022 “look, we delivered stage 1, so we have credibility to deliver stage 2 and 3”, but of course, in early 2023, the feasibility studies are finished and it looks like all we can afford is a new paint job on the VLos.
more expresses, wow

SCS to Geelong to Warrnambool. sounds great if I lived in Warrnambool.

too bad if I live in Winchelsea, Colac, Camperdown, Terang - apparently they are not Regional enough.

cheers
John

As much as I'm treating this whole Opposition proposal with a grain of salt, I'm certain r the proposed 'express' operation between Waurn Ponds and Warrnambool would INCLUDE all the current stations.

There's more than enough distance between the stations to allow consistent high speed operation.

Mike.
The Vinelander
you would like to think so wouldn't you, but that is not what Mathew Guy said this morning on radio when John Faine asked that exact question.

The answer is there will be other trains that stop all stations, and agreed that they would not be the high speed variety. Just like Europe.
Obviously didn't appreciate the implication of such ridiculousness.

It is a very salty proposal.

cheers
John
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
This is what happens when you pay the RRA to be your transport advisers Razz
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat Line
There’s an enormously clever political design to this. “Stage 1”, all that they’ve promised in the first term, is more express services - and we all know how that plays out in the real world, and how little it really represents

But it’ll fool enough people for them to say in 2022 “look, we delivered stage 1, so we have credibility to deliver stage 2 and 3”, but of course, in early 2023, the feasibility studies are finished and it looks like all we can afford is a new paint job on the VLos.
more expresses, wow

SCS to Geelong to Warrnambool. sounds great if I lived in Warrnambool.

too bad if I live in Winchelsea, Colac, Camperdown, Terang - apparently they are not Regional enough.

cheers
John

As much as I'm treating this whole Opposition proposal with a grain of salt, I'm certain r the proposed 'express' operation between Waurn Ponds and Warrnambool would INCLUDE all the current stations.

There's more than enough distance between the stations to allow consistent high speed operation.

Mike.
you would like to think so wouldn't you, but that is not what Mathew Guy said this morning on radio when John Faine asked that exact question.

The answer is there will be other trains that stop all stations, and agreed that they would not be the high speed variety. Just like Europe.
Obviously didn't appreciate the implication of such ridiculousness.

It is a very salty proposal.

cheers
John
justarider

Perhaps Mr Guy is looking at virtually an HST operation between the terminal stations and Melbourne and looking at utilising the V'Locity's for the all stations services...seems a bit of overkill for the population of regional Victoria at this point in time.

In this Opposition proposal Mildura misses out (again), so I'll be looking forward to a bells and whistles HST service between Melbourne and Swan Hill, something similar to Eurostar or the French TGV travelling at 200Km/h across the plains then change to the 100Km/h bus for the last 2.5 hours of the journey.

Mike.
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

The High Speed Rail project will see the rebuild of much of Victoria’s current Class 1 track to 200 kilometres per hour operation as well as major track improvements on every other passenger rail line.
Carnot

Whoa Nellie!

This is even worse than it appeared originally.

There is not all that much Class 1 track.

There is no mention of track amplification.

The timings do not make any sense and are truly RFR2 in their cynicism.

200km/h trains do not mix well with single track sections.

Double-deck trains? This is taking advice from Twitter nuffies who believe that of Sydney has it, we should have it too. There is no justification offered.

I was genuinely hopeful when I read the first press coverage but Matty has effectively limited himself very well to a relatively small scope of works. There is absolutely no rail knowledge being demonstrated here and I am frightened about where this $19 billion is supposed to go.

I really hope country voters don’t fall for this but the press has not been at all critical so far so I am not optimistic.
  justarider Chief Commissioner

Location: Released again, maybe for the last time??
There’s an enormously clever political design to this. “Stage 1”, all that they’ve promised in the first term, is more express services - and we all know how that plays out in the real world, and how little it really represents
more expresses, wow
...
too bad if I live in Winchelsea, Colac, Camperdown, Terang - apparently they are not Regional enough.
...I'm certain r the proposed 'express' operation between Waurn Ponds and Warrnambool would INCLUDE all the current stations.....
you would like to think so wouldn't you, but that is not what Mathew Guy said this morning on radio when John Faine asked that exact question.

The answer is there will be other trains that stop all stations, and agreed that they would not be the high speed variety. Just like Europe.
...

Perhaps Mr Guy is looking at virtually an HST operation between the terminal stations and Melbourne and looking at utilising the V'Locity's for the all stations services...seems a bit of overkill for the population of regional Victoria at this point in time.

In this Opposition proposal Mildura misses out (again), so I'll be looking forward to a bells and whistles HST service between Melbourne and Swan Hill, something similar to Eurostar or the French TGV travelling at 200Km/h across the plains then change to the 100Km/h bus for the last 2.5 hours of the journey.

Mike.
The Vinelander
Mike,

unfortunately the only thing certain about this proposal is that " Mildura misses out(again) "
Just to rub more salt into your wounds, the NATS have promised Hamilton and Horsham a return to passenger services at high speed.

Try not to confuse HST, Eurostar or TGV with this though bubble. They are "real" high performance trains, running under high voltage.

The LNP proposal is the next batch of V/lo to be super charged up to 200kph. Apparently from other writers, they already can do it.
Super charge the tracks, now that will take some effort.

cheers
John
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat Line
The High Speed Rail project will see the rebuild of much of Victoria’s current Class 1 track to 200 kilometres per hour operation as well as major track improvements on every other passenger rail line.

Whoa Nellie!

This is even worse than it appeared originally.

There is not all that much Class 1 track.

There is no mention of track amplification.

The timings do not make any sense and are truly RFR2 in their cynicism.

200km/h trains do not mix well with single track sections.

Double-deck trains? This is taking advice from Twitter nuffies who believe that of Sydney has it, we should have it too. There is no justification offered.

I was genuinely hopeful when I read the first press coverage but Matty has effectively limited himself very well to a relatively small scope of works. There is absolutely no rail knowledge being demonstrated here and I am frightened about where this $19 billion is supposed to go.

I really hope country voters don’t fall for this but the press has not been at all critical so far so I am not optimistic.
potatoinmymouth

There is a lot of Class 1 track.

On my line, the whole of the Ballarat line from Platforms 15 & 16 along the RRL is Class 1, except for Bungaree Loop, right up to just before Ballarat East.

M.
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
This idea, coming as it does after Guy's harebrained scheme to abolish 50 allegedly dangerous road junctions, makes me wonder. Either he's smoking something pretty good, or he sees himself as a latter day Enid Blyton.
  True Believers Chief Commissioner

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