Scott Morrison's imploding act

 

Pinned post created by dthead

Posted 3 years ago

  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Radioman, any sort of charity is the worst lurk out for stuffing your own pockets full of cash. The problem is that politicians seem to think that charities and churches should be beyond the scope of investigation for illegal/discriminatory practices so they tend to get away with anything and everything; they don't really even have to provide any sort of a benefit to the community.

Gillard's very mild proposal of a Charities Commission to audit churches and charities was scrapped by Tony Abbott who viewed it as an imposition on the rights of churches to do whatever the hell they wanted without any oversight. Unfortunately it remains the same now - my objection is that (as you point out above) churches are not taxed - at all - and they receive some very generous grants from the taxpayer to continue their work in marginalising and discriminating because their Invisible Sky Fairy told them to.

It's the twenty-first century - at the very least they should have taxpayer concessions and grants completely stopped if they want to practice their Invisible Sky Fairy bigotry.

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  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
I don't care whether it is done under the guise of a religion.

I don't care if you or your organization feels it is a way of exercising your freedom.

Discrimination should never be acceptable, and it certainly should never be sanctioned by the government. This is an absolute disgrace, pure and simple.

Your right to exercise your freedom of religion, should never impact another persons rights.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
I find it ironic that 'diversity' is held in high regard today, but then many of these same people demand or pressure religious schools and organisations 'assimilate' to sexual and moral ethics contrary to that religion's teachings.
Carnot
I don't care that they discriminate against gays as their Invisible Sky Fairy commands them to - but the secular taxpayer should have no part in helping them to do it. Therefore we badly need a Charities Commission that can police whether or not churches and charities are sticking to the rule (ie no discrimination against the law) and if they aren't then they get their tax-exempt status revoked. Simple. They're still allowed to do what they want but not with the support of the Commonwealth taxpayer.

We could potentially save billions from taxing people like the Exclusive Brethren and the Jehovah's Witnesses (who will have no intention of complying with anti-discrimination laws) - but other organisations like the Catholic Church I can see weakening and adhering to the law for no other reason than they need the money.
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

I find it ironic that 'diversity' is held in high regard today, but then many of these same people demand or pressure religious schools and organisations 'assimilate' to sexual and moral ethics contrary to that religion's teachings.
I don't care that they discriminate against gays as their Invisible Sky Fairy commands them to - but the secular taxpayer should have no part in helping them to do it. Therefore we badly need a Charities Commission that can police whether or not churches and charities are sticking to the rule (ie no discrimination against the law) and if they aren't then they get their tax-exempt status revoked. Simple. They're still allowed to do what they want but not with the support of the Commonwealth taxpayer.

We could potentially save billions from taxing people like the Exclusive Brethren and the Jehovah's Witnesses (who will have no intention of complying with anti-discrimination laws) - but other organisations like the Catholic Church I can see weakening and adhering to the law for no other reason than they need the money.
don_dunstan
Gee Don. I totally agree with you on this one. In fact only public schools should receive government funding. It's all bit like me not finding the public transport on offer to my liking and then demand the govern subsidize a limo to take me to work and back. If you want sky fairy or private education for your precious one then pay for it.

I recently read an interesting article on the student outcomes between private and public schools and there were none. The study did find that students attending private schools were far more likely to pick up more prestigious jobs and further study was being undertaken why this was so. Well I can save them the trouble as the students in say GPS have better contacts and thus pick up better paying jobs.

For that reason I really object to my tax dollars going private schools so that the students have access to a better old boys network
  Radioman Chief Train Controller

Hello All,

with respect to the above comments , I do not think that the issues of religious tolerance , religious institutions charitable works , tolerance of diversity are black and white issues , but are actually rather complex and depend on a variety of factors and individual circumstances ; and I will try and illustrate the potential conundrums below .

These comments should be seen as a broad view , and there doubtless are other related issues which I am unaware of , or that I have not covered here.

1 / Mainstream Christian Churches such as the Roman Catholic, Anglican , Non Conformist ( Baptist, Congregational , Methodist , Wesleyan , Uniting ) and some of the Evangelical Churches encourage their congregations to participate in , or support charitable works which are non discriminatory in their application . They also generally allow non members to visit their churches and / or invite non members to attend their services. On this basis I do not have a problem with their charitable status , subject to my previous comments about the governance of their status. In my view these organisations are generally fulfilling both roles satisfactorily . ( The issue of criminal behaviour of some of their members notwithstanding, and such behaviour should be subject to the laws that apply to us all. )

2 / There are some Christian organisations who restrict both access to their churches, and the distribution of their charitable activities to their members only. I also do not have a problem with this either, subject to the condition that as they are no longer a charitable organisation of general application , they are therefore not entitled to charitable status, and are also not entitled to tax relief or subsidies of any kind.

3 / Religious schools potentially also fall into a number of categories.

( A ) There are some religious schools which are run separately from , but are subject to complying with the "owning" Church.

( B ) there are some religious schools which are a stand alone entity, and are no longer subject to the former "owning" or "sponsoring" Church. ( This generally applies to the most expensive Independent schools such as MLC etc.. )

Both ( A ) & ( B ) "Church" schools are required to take in non Church member students as a condition of their Government funding.

( C ) There are some Church schools which only take Church member students and are not open to non member Church students
( the Plymouth Brethren being a case in point ) , and these schools also receive Government funding.

While I personally think that only Government schools should get Government funding , and all Independent and Church schools should be entirely self funded , the political reality is that Commonwealth Government funding of non Government schools has existed since since 1964 ( 54 years ) , so that is highly unlikely to change any time soon.

On that basis , I think that Commonwealth Government funding of Church and Independent Schools ( A & B ) which have a non discriminatory policy to school enrolments is ok , but I do not think it is ok for the Commonwealth Government to fund any non Government school ( C ) which has a discriminatory student enrolment policy , as this is contrary to the spirit , if not the letter , of a non discrimination policy.

4 / The other problem that needs to be considered is that in the last 30 years or so, State Governments have deliberately not built Government schools in some residential areas , relying entirely on Church based or Independent schools to meet the local educational demand . In these instances, many parents have no choice as to where to send their children, as no Government school is available to enrol their children in. In the main, these areas are generally serviced by Catholic schools that are open to all students.

( You could run the argument that this deliberate policy of non provision of Government schools is de facto support for religious schools , and therefore contrary to the Australian Constitution , however, I am under the impression that the High Court has ruled that State Governments are exempt from that Section of the Constitution. )

5 / And now we come to the issues of diversity and inclusion . Not everyone is comfortable with diversity and inclusion , and this may not have an obvious religious bias , but could just be that some forms of diversity and inclusion are threatening to some people. This is a very difficult issue to both discuss, and can easily degenerate into accusations of prejudice and discrimination , where in some cases it can be a form of fear , and not of discrimination.

For example, State Schools have to take all comers ( something Independent Schools have ways of avoiding , such as a "waiting list" ), so , as part of inclusion, State Schools take in students who have some form of disability. Take the case of the disability student that becomes temporarily violent towards another student/s. Those on the receiving end can become quite frightened of going back to school as a result . (This does happen.) So what choices are open to the parents of a child too frightened of a disabled student to go back to that school ? Especially if there are no alternate school nearby ? This is a problem that parents of State Schools have no control over , but which Independent Schools can control due to the "waiting list".

6 / Now what about single gender schools ? Are single gender schools inherently discriminatory ? Are they less diverse ? Does this mean that only co educational schools are non discriminatory ? What about those students who thrive in a single gender school, yet fail in a co educational school ? ( An issue faced by a work colleague , whose wife and he realised that one of their sons might do better at an all boys school, which, it later transpired, was correct in this particular case. ) What do we do about transgender or fluid gender students ? ( I will ignore the point that chromosonally you are either female or male, with female being the default gender in humans. )

7 / My above comments probably also have application to non Christian institutions as well, but I have very little personal knowledge of those.

For your consideration,

Regards, Radioman.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Morrison has done a complete 180 degree turn on this whole gay students thing and has now said that he will enact legislation to ensure that they can't discriminate. Not the best solution to be telling religious