Outer Harbour Line - Service Interruptions Thread

 
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia

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  kipioneer Chief Commissioner

Location: Aberfoyle Park
The Belair line, too, near Unley Park station.    There is a row of very large gum trees through there.
  Captainchoochoo61 Locomotive Fireman

Oh Please,
The person on the track taking the photo could not find one or two other people to pull the branch aside.

What a bunch of wimps!!!

Close the whole line for this !!!
  SinickleBird Chief Train Controller

Location: Qantas Club at Mudgee International Airport
There would be at least 10 OH&S reasons why that couldn’t happen.
  Captainchoochoo61 Locomotive Fireman

1 Danger to people from another falling limb , but ignore the danger to the crowd on the platform.
2 somebody may pull a muscle, but the person will then go to the gym and pay to get strained.
3 It may hurt the feelings of the poor damaged tree
4 there has been no train order or whatever issued ( what is more important getting a sit rep or train order or getting hundreds of people to work . school. hospitals. shopping???)
5 Are we worried about splinters ?

What other OH&S problems do you forsee?  

At many times of the day and night there is a rapid response road unit that meets trains at Grange and people stand around talking.
With the bad weather forecast today was this unit personned and ready for these type of events?

Is there an incident emergency plan in place for this type of happening?

There are several fixes for this situation that could be activated in the day of computer control.

The trains on the whole line were halted because they banked up behind the tree.
OK How can we reduce that problem?

It does not say where the incident occured but I have heard Largs Bay mentioned in the news report.

The closest location for this to Adelaide  with a mid track platform is Cheltenham. Woodville park has a different shelter in the middle.

Action one
Terminate down trains at Woodville and run a limited service to Adelaide to at least move some passengers in addition to Grange trains

If the event is after Glanville you run trains to Glanville and terminate  trains there reducing the number of affected passengers.

Action two

As trains are stopped on the up and down tracks you obtain something like a train control form.

1 The closest train to Adelaide on the Down track is issued a wrong line running order. and runs to the next crossover available and resumes normal running. ( Woodville, Port Junction, Glanville etc)  It could collect passengerrs at stations along the way( reducing the number of passengers annoyed by yet another failure of the service)

2 With line clear you could operate the next train and so on. This would only need one person to perform the order giving.
If more people were able to help, the number of movements  could be increased and the number of disgruntled passengers could be reduced.

All of these movements would have reduced congestion in the platforms at Adelaide and also reduced delays for customers.
Reducing delays for customers should be a priority for a public transport service.

Any of these options would also reduce the residual delays through the system for the rest of the day. Grange trains also run to Outer Harbor so the schedule for the day is all out of kilter.  reducing the delays will reduce the out of order services.
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

What a complete non-story!

The fallen tree at Cheltenham was removed and clearance given for trains to resume just 24 minutes after it was first reported, and over two hours before Bevans posted the thread.
It could have been a few minutes quicker too, but a number of level crossings were taken under manual control to keep road traffic moving.

I bet it would have taken well more than half an hour to:
  • stop everything
  • work out options for wrong line movements
  • get those operations underway
  • suspend wrong line movements
  • assign replacement diagrams for normal line movements


So it looks like it has been quite effectively managed, with no more impact than a handful of trains being delayed a bit. They even managed to keep all Grange trains operating.

By simply delaying trains rather than turning them around, the passengers involved simply got to their destinations a little late with nobody being stranded either. No big deal in this age of instant communication by mobile phone.


All up, it looks like a job well done by the managers who kept a cool head instead of adding to the problem by madly flapping about setting up convoluted arrangements.

Bad luck to the gunzels hoping for some excitement, but you can always practice your wrong line moves on your HO setup at home.
  Captainchoochoo61 Locomotive Fireman

Another thought on how the system is devolving.

In brake vans, redhens, bluebirds etc there was emergency equipment.
A stretcher,
A first aid box
a few goodies and a red handled axe.
Probably a pair of gloves to avoid the soft brothers from getting splinters.

So now we have computers, rule books, safety slogans, OH&S reps , but no ability to keep services moving.

The price of advancement!!!!

Ask the swarming passengers to move away please to avoid woodchips in the eyes,

Couple of swings of the axe, pull away the 200mm think branch and arrive in town no more than fifteen minutes late.


Too many wimps here for me !!! Rolling Eyes
  theanimal Chief Commissioner

Oh Please,
The person on the track taking the photo could not find one or two other people to pull the branch aside.

What a bunch of wimps!!!

Close the whole line for this !!!
Captainchoochoo61
Considering it is a single line, what is your plan for permitting services to run?
  Captainchoochoo61 Locomotive Fireman

The updates on Adelaide metro site are thirty minutes apart, and Adelaide Metro is not renowned for rapid notification of problems.

The suggestions put forward could be implemented immediately , but really the driver and the person in tan shoes should have moved the branch rather than standing on the platform taking photos.

People in the west are tired of delays, cancellations and overcrowded trains.
  Captainchoochoo61 Locomotive Fireman

Considering it is a single line, what is your plan for permitting services to run?

1 it is double line at Cheltenham

2. Pull the branch out of the way.

3 Call my cousin as he lives around the corner and would love to get the wood for his wood pizza oven!!

4 Read my suggested actions and implement that rather than standing there taking photos

5 If the old station facilities were still there the equipment store would have allowed some breaking up with the axe that was in the kit.


So it looks like it has been quite effectively managed, with no more impact than a handful of trains being delayed a bit. They even managed to keep all Grange trains operating.

This would have required improvisation as Grange trains normally run their next service to Outer Harbour, so the regular sequences would have been interupted.
  62430 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Metro Adelaide
Considering it is a single line, ...
theanimal
Only single line north of Midlunga for about 3km to Outer Harbor.
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville

Too many wimps here for me !!! Rolling Eyes
Captainchoochoo61

You so tough, you make me horny. Me love you long time Razz
  theanimal Chief Commissioner

Considering it is a single line, what is your plan for permitting services to run?

1 it is double line at Cheltenham

2. Pull the branch out of the way.

3 Call my cousin as he lives around the corner and would love to get the wood for his wood pizza oven!!

4 Read my suggested actions and implement that rather than standing there taking photos

5 If the old station facilities were still there the equipment store would have allowed some breaking up with the axe that was in the kit.


So it looks like it has been quite effectively managed, with no more impact than a handful of trains being delayed a bit. They even managed to keep all Grange trains operating.

This would have required improvisation as Grange trains normally run their next service to Outer Harbour, so the regular sequences would have been interupted.
Captainchoochoo61
1. This happened at Unley Park,  What is the relevance of mentioning Cheltenham?

2. Whilst pulling the branch out of the way  would certainly be an option, in this day I am confident that TransAdelaide would require the track to be certified prior to allowing the passage of rail traffic.

3. looks like pretty poor wood to me, better to buy a bag from the servo.

4. the practical ones covered here, the impractical ones ignored.

5.  seems of little relevance, once there was an axe in the breakdown kit in the guards van. Again, read my answer to 2.
  Captainchoochoo61 Locomotive Fireman

The title of the thread reveals a lot of information.

1. This happened at Unley Park,  What is the relevance of mentioning Cheltenham?

No this thread is about the problem at Cheltenham which occured earlier.

The first closure because of tree failure occured at Cheltenham
The  picture of the branch was taken at Cheltenham.

Nobody has opened a thread about the Unley Park incident yet.

2. To run a crawling pace railcar over at most two sleepers would not have been a serious risk.
Just being ridiculous A weight of maybe 200 kilos on a line with what 15 to 20 ton axle loads?

3 the crappy pine you get from the servo is not good enough to run a wood oven pizza

I have also seen treated pine in those bags too.

All that would have been done was a visual look to see no kink in the rail, check no loose clips
The tree removed before the ganger arrived would have reduced the delay.
  DJPeters Assistant Commissioner

An axe you say would anyone today be able to start one, where is the pull cord and do you have to put fuel into it to start it.  LaughingLaughingLaughingLaughing

But as some said stop the railcar and the driver alone could have dragged it out of the way enough to continue. If some passengers helped of course it would be a bit quicker. Get back into the railcar and report it and say it is clear of the track, but warn other trains that it is there and then get someone in to remove the branch between train movements later, at the most a few minutes delay with no hold ups. Adelaide Metro though are renowned for going into panic mode for anything like this though.

It was a small tree branch not a washed away rail track or something.
  Captainchoochoo61 Locomotive Fireman

No David, it is against Adelaide Metro OH&S rules to use any axe not equipped with electric start.

Because of the length of delays it was more important to keep 2 level crossings open rather than two people to pul the log off the track

@ Bingley I bet you say that to all your boys !
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Anyone want to have a stab at under what name rail commissioner/DPTI/AdelaideMetro have the cousin’s phone number stored in their speed dial? I’m thinking it’s probably not ‘guy round the corner with a pizza oven’...
  Gayspie Assistant Commissioner

Location: Adelaide, SA
How hard would it have been for the driver and the PSA to jump down onto the track, pull the tree branch out of the way, and for the security guard (if there is one) to remain on the platform and control the photo hungry crowd of stressed commuters ?

Maximum delay would have been 5 minutes at most, and once the train is rolling again the driver could have rang train control and told them to send out a local tree remover in between movements to remove the tree branch.

How did we all survive at work in the 50's, 60's and 70's pre OHS/W requirements ?
  kipioneer Chief Commissioner

Location: Aberfoyle Park
How hard would it have been for the driver and the PSA to jump down onto the track, pull the tree branch out of the way, and for the security guard (if there is one) to remain on the platform and control the photo hungry crowd of stressed commuters ?

Maximum delay would have been 5 minutes at most, and once the train is rolling again the driver could have rang train control and told them to send out a local tree remover in between movements to remove the tree branch.

How did we all survive at work in the 50's, 60's and 70's pre OHS/W requirements ?
Heath Loxton
From the photo the branch appears large enough to require a chain saw to make it manageable.    It is certainly not a one person, or even a two person job to move.

In any case where do you move a branch that size to?

Better to call in a DPTI crew or even the SES who, while they were undoubtably very busy that day, would no doubt give this task a high priority.
  nm39 Chief Commissioner

Location: By a road taking pictures
How hard would it have been for the driver and the PSA to jump down onto the track, pull the tree branch out of the way, and for the security guard (if there is one) to remain on the platform and control the photo hungry crowd of stressed commuters ?

Maximum delay would have been 5 minutes at most, and once the train is rolling again the driver could have rang train control and told them to send out a local tree remover in between movements to remove the tree branch.

How did we all survive at work in the 50's, 60's and 70's pre OHS/W requirements ?
Heath Loxton
We didn't. People were killed, maimed and injured frequently because safety controls were just not there. Today to do any work in the rail corridor there are a host of National Laws and Regulations in place that must be obeyed to keep people safe from harm. Some of them may seem a little strange, such as the requirement that all workers must keep behind the line on rail platforms with all sorts of ramifications if disobeyed, yet the passengers/members of the public standing on the platform can cross the white line with impunity. However, this does keep a separation between rail workers and danger, so it is warranted.
Before anyone can work in the rail corridor a Tracky needs to be present and all the necessary precautions done including a plan of work documented, etc.
  Gayspie Assistant Commissioner

Location: Adelaide, SA
Fair point to the above comment. However some OHS/W restrictions do seem rather silly i must admit - for example how at my high school it was against safety policy for teachers to stand on a chair and adjust the clock for daylight savings time or stand on a chair and change a light globe - both things that i do at home on a regular basis without illness or injury...
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

Fair point to the above comment. However some OHS/W restrictions do seem rather silly i must admit - for example how at my high school it was against safety policy for teachers to stand on a chair and adjust the clock for daylight savings time or stand on a chair and change a light globe - both things that i do at home on a regular basis without illness or injury...
Heath Loxton
It only seems that way because you haven't thought it all the way through. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm guessing you've never had any first-hand experience of approaching a school as a workplace?

For a start, I've seen plenty of chairs in schools that I would be nervous about sitting on, let alone standing.

Then there's the other issues associated with the environment, which is nothing like being relaxed in the comfort of your own home. The policy needs to take into account the fact that schools are an environment with many distractions, and that modern workloads on teachers cause them to be badly fatigued on a regular basis.

You could, in theory, change the policy to allow teachers to carefully do it. The problem there, however, is that fatigue causes impaired decision making and so you would have a policy which tends towards encouraging people to cut corners.

The vast majority of workplace injuries are preventable, not accidents.

By the way, the official term these days is Work Health and Safety. If you see the old OHS or OHSW or OHS&W or any other variants anywhere, it should be assumed to be good evidence that the policies and procedures haven't been reviewed in quite a long time.

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