2018 State Election / Transport

 
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
Moreover...

What about our forgotten friends on the Bendigo/Seymour/Shepparton lines...and the congestion and slow operation they endure from City to/from Sunbury/Craigieburn etc.

Mike.
The Vinelander
Are you hinting at 2 more announcements to follow Mike, one for Gippy and one for Northern lines?

BG

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  John.Z Assistant Commissioner

Geelong and Ballarat will always be done first (votes + population).

However Bendigo and Seymour need to be through routed via Airport

And Gippsland/Western Port Services need a track pair between Dandenong and the City (including taking freight off the frankston line).
  x31 Chief Commissioner

Location: gallifrey
Geelong and Ballarat will always be done first (votes + population).

However Bendigo and Seymour need to be through routed via Airport

And Gippsland/Western Port Services need a track pair between Dandenong and the City (including taking freight off the frankston line).
John.Z

The Geelong and Ballarat Lines make it easier to do the new track pairs as there appears to be capacity and the lines would in the case of Ballarat come from the Deer park RFR Junction. Would they only build double new tracks as far as Bacchus Marsh or only to Melton?

With the amount of Ballarat Line traffic coming I would expect this would need to be Bacchus Marsh and electrification and new EMU rolling stock as previous discussed a better option.
  Lockie91 Assistant Commissioner

@x31

I agree that BM is the gold plated option, however their is a large river in the governments way. If sparking was to go to BM it woould require two new track pairs over Werribee River. $1 Billion just for that.  On top of the additional track pair between Melton and Sunshine. Serval stations would need to be rebuilt of modified to accommodate the additional track pair.

RRL is much easier as when this was built two track pairs was always the planned outcome.

...

All we have so far is a chunk of money for a business case. No money for any construction work. If Dans wants his two high speed rail corridors then we are talking about rebuilding the track from the ground up including modifications to gradients and curves to achieve the maximum speed. The removal of almost every level crossing. New signalling. New stablling and a new fleet. Billions and Billions
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat Line
Moreover...

What about our forgotten friends on the Bendigo/Seymour/Shepparton lines...and the congestion and slow operation they endure from City to/from Sunbury/Craigieburn etc.

Mike.
Are you hinting at 2 more announcements to follow Mike, one for Gippy and one for Northern lines?

BG
BrentonGolding

Actually no...however the campaign proper doesn't actually start for another two weeks. So if the lines I mention get NO upgrades apart from what has already been announced, the pax on those services would have some justification in thinking they are travelling on the lines that are the poor relation.

Mike.
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

So frustrating to see Liberal politicians banging on about this afternoon’s signal failures as evidence that their plan is needed, when it will do absolutely nothing to combat these situations and will more likely than not make them worse.

Plenty of people will believe it, though, and who can blame them when neither party appears able to grasp the basic needs of the transport network?

What frightens me is that I can easily spot disinformation with regard to this sort of thing; I can’t have the same confidence in my knowledge of other matters. Skepticism pays.
  True Believers Chief Commissioner

-Wyndham Vale connection (I think that's been merged into the SRL project)
True Believers

Yep looks like this confirms this theory

https://www.facebook.com/DanielAndrewsMP/videos/1912954475451472/

And yes capacity, frequency are greatly more important than just speed.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
' ........... when neither party appears able to grasp the basic needs of the transport network?'

Oh how true.
  True Believers Chief Commissioner

' ........... when neither party appears able to grasp the basic needs of the transport network?'

Oh how true.
YM-Mundrabilla
Well yeah very doubtful either party do know the basic needs of the transport network.

At the least the current party, has some kinda vision and ongoing pipeline of projects that actually make sense. Yeah the current party ain't perfect, but they are on the right track. Get the pun. TRACK. moving on... Anyways investment of heavy rail is the center of attention. Nothing for buses, improving tram network, or other modes. Roads are getting a bucket load of cash.

It ain't perfect, but looking back in the early 2000s, I think there has been a dramatic shift into putting huge dollars back into the Melbourne public transport system when it blew up in patronage in the 2008-2010. And seeing this progress, like as in seeing the contruction and the start of these transformative projects always gives me hope that more can be done to shift more towards other modes not just roads. But we will just wait and see what happens till now and towards the election who convinces the voters which party is delivering a better transport network into the future.
  slowcoach Junior Train Controller

Below is an outlined "Victorian Rail Plan" put together by Transport for Victoria (TfV), according to tonight's 9News report:
(1)
- Melbourne Metro 1: South Kensington to South Yarra (Open circa 2025)
- Cranbourne line duplication: From Dandenong to Cranbourne
- Somerton link: Connecting Upfield Line to Craigieburn and Seymour Lines at Roxburgh Park
- Hurstbridge Line upgrade Stage 2: Duplication between Greensborough and Eltham

Stage 3
- Melbourne Airport Rail Link: Via a new rail tunnel from Southern Cross to Sunshine
- City Loop Reconfiguration: Frankston Line to run via Parliament, Melbourne Central, Flagstaff and West Melbourne to connect with the Craigieburn Line
- Burnley Junction Rationalisation: Glen Waverley Line to run via Flinders Street and Southern Cross to connect with the Upfield Line
- Melton Electrification: Quadruplication between Sunshine and Melton
- Wyndham Vale Electrification: Quadruplication between Sunshine and Wyndham Vale
- Waurn Ponds duplication: Between South Geelong and Waurn Ponds
- Clyde Extension: Cranbourne line extended to Clyde
- Baxter Electrification: Frankston Line extended to Baxter
- Mooroolbark to Lilydale Duplication

Stage 4
- Melbourne Metro 2 West: New rail tunnel from Newport to Parkville via Fishermans Bend and Southern Cross
- Laverton and Williamstown Line Upgrade
- Wyndham Vale to Black Forest Road extension: Connects Wyndham Vale line to Werribee
- Sunshine to Watergardens Quadruplication
- Bendigo Track Upgrade
- Shepparton Line Upgrade Stage 2

Stage 5
- Melbourne Metro 2 East: New rail tunnel from Parkville to Clifton Hill via Carlton and Fitzroy
- Wollert Extension: Branch line off Mernda Line from Lalor
- Geelong Electrification
- Regional Rail Link Additional Stations
- Barwon South West Line Intercity Upgrade
- Gippsland Line Intercity Upgrade
- Loddon Mallee Intercity Upgrade

Stage 6
- New track pair (Sextuplication): Between South Yarra Portal and Caufield
- New track pair : Between Caufield and Huntingdale via Chadstone
- Rowville Extension: Branching off Huntingdale via Monash Uni
- Track Quadruplication: Between Huntingdale and Dandenong
- Track Quadruplication: Between Deer Park and Melton
- Track Duplication: Between Bacchus Marsh and Ballarat
- New Track Pair: Between Flinders Street and Southern Cross

Notice the Suburban Rail Loop isn't included in this plan.
  reubstar6 Chief Train Controller

Pretty good plan to me. Doubt that everything will be realised. However the Somerton link of all things has surprised me. It's certainly been off my radar. It makes me wonder whether the Upfield line is ready for V/line trains. I hope that a Skyrail will be constructed otherwise some of the inner level crossings will be nightmarish.
  reubstar6 Chief Train Controller

Stage 3 seems very achievable with the current Labor government. City loop reconfiguration will probably be discussed when there is not an election imminent. Stages 4 and 5 also seem quite achievable. I reckon if not during this election campaign then in the next term of government (provided Labor gets in) there will be planning for Metro 2. Both ends should be built, but I acknowledge that the western end is the priority. Stage 6 looks partially more difficult with several quadruplications and Metro 1 part 2 (not to be confused with Metro 2 part 1, Metro 2 part 2, Metro 2, etc.). Throw SRL into the frame and everything seems less achievable. But I think that Daniel Andrews has done enough to see the plan eventuate at this early stage. Noticeably his education commitments for future TBM operators and more broadly the rail industry will produce a great stream of jobs well into the future. Obviously there are going to be stints of Liberal governments in the future, and indeed incapable Labor governments, but hopefully the Feds will chip in a bit.
Hopefully Shorten, a Melbournian, will win the next election and help fund some of these projects.
  justarider Chief Commissioner

Location: Released again, maybe for the last time??
Alot of stuff to take in: https://www.9news.com.au/national/2018/10/16/17/00/victoria-melbourne-secret-rail-plans-daniel-andrews
True Believers
a good plan maybe !!

BUT

it smells like an inter departmental bun fight.

TfV (transport for Victoria) think that they are the ONLY transport planners in Victoria, and can tell PTV and Vic Roads what to do.
In the same department is Victoria's Big Build - who gave us Suburban Rail Loop. They actually have to build this stuff.

Not a bad strategy having 2 diverse opinions to develop a long term plan. Keeping one blind from the other is even smarter, prevents just borrowing from the other - in another life would be called plagiarism.

Politicians need palatable choices they can offer. Being able to pick and choose ( instead of one bureaucratic "mine or nothing") leads to a workable way to move forward. It might not be the best, which is a matter of opinion anyway, but it get things moving on a fairly certain path.

Now we have a leak. A sure sign that somebody's nose is out of joint. IN the lead up to an election, a very brave pubic savant.

The most likely outcome is those responsible will be given the order of DCM.
TfV may itself discover redundancy. It's the sort of think tank that has a short shelf life, and just recycled decades of railway thought bubbles/investigations/policy papers.
The hard work has already been done, so that others (team players) can pick the best bits and put a workable/achievable/palatable plan together. Weeeell - half the list is already underway in some form.

6 weeks to go. Can we get to $100B promises by then ?

cheers
John
  True Believers Chief Commissioner

The reason why the suburban rail loop isn't in the plan, cause it's a wild card. No-one thought it could ever be done, but it does have great benefits to the state.

This plan developed by the Transport for Victoria is a revised plan from the PTV plan in 2012, so it had to more or less borrow projects from that list and tweak it up with new projects or reprioritise the other projects or even remove them completely.

I mean if they can try to complete the revised plan alongside the suburban rail loop, I think that a win-win situation for everyone.

As everyone has pointed out, it does show a worrying sign that the government of the day can pick projects of it drawing bag, and have the say of the day instead of the so called experts meant to provide with the actual projects that would be less risky to take on. Anyways high risk = high rewards, and this is what the suburban loop is. A highly risky project but has huge potential.

Anyways I have put the hard work revising this wiki page. So sure go have a look at it. You can now compare the old plan with the newly revised one.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_Development_Plan_Metropolitan_Rail#Revised_Plan_2018
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
The fraud squad starts contacting 21 ALP politicians over the red shirts fraud and scandal. It’s starting guys.
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

Location: Banned
Wow read the editorial from the feral about Matt Guy's $19 Billion proposal. What an exercise in absolute deceit. They know that $19 Billion is nowhere near what is required to rebuild the rail network for 200km/h operation.

That is serious BS coming from the Coalition.

Michael
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Jacinta Allen to be challenged in her seat at the next election

https://www.bendigoadvertiser.com.au/story/5707488/helen-leach-seeking-a-seat-in-victorian-parliament/
  ngarner Deputy Commissioner

Location: Seville
She will be challenged but the DLP will gain very few votes outside a small committed group and those who don't know, or think, about the difference between the DLP and the ALP; as would appear to have happened a few times in recent federal elections due to "clever" use of names on the ballot paper.
(For those too young to know, the DLP split from the ALP many decades ago and immediately put themselves into the political wilderness as a result.)
Allen shouldn't be worried about them; she'd be more concerned about L/NP, Greens et al.

Neil
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat Line
Jacinta Allen to be challenged in her seat at the next election

https://www.bendigoadvertiser.com.au/story/5707488/helen-leach-seeking-a-seat-in-victorian-parliament/
bevans

This is a non story.

The DLP candidate will be well down the list when the votes are tallied in Bendigo East on election night.

Mike.
  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: Gheringhap Loop Autonomous Zone
TfV (transport for Victoria) think that they are the ONLY transport planners in Victoria, and can tell PTV and Vic Roads what to do. In the same department is Victoria's Big Build - who gave us Suburban Rail Loop. They actually have to build this stuff.
justarider

Come with me for peek inside Byzantium...

Transport for Victoria (an appendage of the Department of Economic Development, Jobs, Transport & Resources) is the new mega agency that incorporates both VicRoads AND what was PTV.

Rather, Development Victoria (an urban development agency that is part of the Department of Environment, Land, Water & Planning) is the agency responsible for conceiving the Suburban Rail Loop.

As for 'Victoria's Big Build', it's not a government body, it's just a brand for promoting all of the pork barreling coming up to the election next month.
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

Transport for Victoria (an appendage of the Department of Economic Development, Jobs, Transport & Resources) is the new mega agency that incorporates both VicRoads AND what was PTV.

Rather, Development Victoria (an urban development agency that is part of the Department of Environment, Land, Water & Planning) is the agency responsible for conceiving the Suburban Rail Loop.

As for 'Victoria's Big Build', it's not a government body, it's just a brand for promoting all of the pork barreling coming up to the election next month.
LancedDendrite


Couple of points of order:

TFV is a statutory body (or rather, its Head is) meaning that it’s probably here to stay, since disbanding it requires an Act of Parliament and whoever wins the election will almost certainly not control the Upper House. Both PTV and VicRoads still exist as distinct entities but now share a board, and are focused on day-to-day operations and customer-facing activities rather than planning or strategic operations. V/Line also forms part of TFV though with its own board.

Also, the Big Build is a brand for a government body: the Office of the Coordinator General, which is a non-statutory division of DEDJTR and hence under direct ministerial control. OCG includes all our favourite delivery agencies like RPV, LXRA, the Western Distributor Authority (strangely not renamed even though the project no longer exists in that form), the North East Link Authority, and the new cousin, the Major Road Projects Authority, which has taken over most of VicRoads’ delivery functions. The idea is that the delivery agencies get to focus on their speciality and OCG, well, coordinates, things like access to raw materials and construction resources, to prevent inefficient inter-agency competition.

In theory, OCG and its subsidiaries have no strategic planning role but the ministerial control aspect means the temptation is practically too great to ignore.
  ElliotProvis Junior Train Controller

Location: Melbourne, Victoria
And good luck to the DLP.
70 first preference votes for Ms. Helen Leach’s local council campaign in 2016 suggests that she is not as well liked as the Bendigo Advertiser might have you believe.
  justarider Chief Commissioner

Location: Released again, maybe for the last time??
thanks @PIMM for an exacting description of the Minister's office. Pointless really discussing, it will change again soon enough.

The point of my post was that 2 offices/authorities/bodies (wgaf) under the Minister's direction were tasked with a rail plan, and no surprise 2 different answers.

@LD  I only mentioned "Victoria Big Build" because OCG is too obscure for anybody to recognise, I did look it up beforehand - a committee of everybody (except TfV) that almost defies description , PIMM got pretty close .  OCG does sound like a psychological disorder.

As for the authorship of SRL, sure Development Vic + consultants did the work. Bog standard outsourcing of work for bringing in the required expertise AND keeping confidentiality. It's still a Big Build brand all over. Development Vic website don't even own it as one of their projects .

cheers
John
  Carnot Minister for Railways

And good luck to the DLP.
70 first preference votes for Ms. Helen Leach’s local council campaign in 2016 suggests that she is not as well liked as the Bendigo Advertiser might have you believe.
ElliotProvis
She got nearly 1700 votes and came 6th on the ballet.  The Addy doesn't like her because she doesn't belong to Trades Hall or jump on board their trendy left-wing causes.  She might get up to 5% of the vote going by past elections.

Anyway, back to the topic:  It doesn't look likely at all that Bendigo trains will ever go via Melb Airport.  As per the TfV document the most likely outcome is a dedicated V/line track between Sunshine and Watergardens, and an upgrade of the Eastern track to Class 1 Standard (re-sleeper, re-rail) between Sunbury and Kyneton.  I can imagine they'll be some signal upgrades with that too.

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