Clyde extension should not wait 10-15 years to get built

 
  Braddo Deputy Commissioner

Location: Narre Warren
It's a long way from Clyde (North) to Cranny station. I doubt many would do it, you might as well just drive all the way to work.

Lynbrook station is by far the most heavily patronised station on the line. In peak hour there's so many people there you could almost compare it to Flinders Street.

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  justarider Chief Train Controller

Location: Stuck on VR and hoping for better.
It's a long way from Clyde (North) to Cranny station. I doubt many would do it, you might as well just drive all the way to work.

Lynbrook station is by far the most heavily patronised station on the line. In peak hour there's so many people there you could almost compare it to Flinders Street.
Braddo
Don't let the locals hear you say that.
"Clyde North" is definitely NOT Clyde.

Haven't you heard "Clyde North" is now known as "Berwick Waters". Ask any real estate agent, adds $000s to the price tag.
Berwick Waters is a lot closer (and direct bus) to Berwick Station.

however "North Clyde" is a different story. Straight across Linsell Blvd/Camms Rd to the Cranny Station car park.

I don't doubt what you say about Lynbrook.
It has a huge pax catchment just in it's local area, without then considering east beyond the South Gippy.

cheers
John
  ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

Location: BleakCity
Just read the post from [color=#0066cc][size=2][font=Roboto, wf_SegoeUI,][b]@ianb26[/b][/font][/size][/color], somebody that actually lives in Cranbourne East.
There is a huge number of residents within close proximity to justify 2 stations.
justarider
Anecdotes are meaningless.


Cranbourne residents didn't pay a special tax, just a huge lump of Stamp Duty. Unlike long term residents in the inner/middle suburbs. Like all taxpayers, they are entitled to some service for that money.

"umpteen places a similar distance which will never have rail" - and where would these be ?
In accordance with your posts over the last week, there will not be any new rail anywhere.
justafoamer
Well for a start... Mornington Pen, Langwarrin, Carrum Downs, Endeavour Hills, Dingley, Beaumaris, Knox, Templestowe, Burnside, Caroline Springs, Hillside, Gladstone Park, Keilor, Avondale Heights, Maidstone, Keilor East, Airport West, Greenvale, Wollert, Research, Kilsyth...


And again what is your fixation about development and shopping centres.
Passengers do not go to a shopping centre to catch a train/bus. They go to a station. Coincidence is nice but not mandatory.
justarider
Development of the Clyde Town Centre will coincide with an appropriate level of development of the area to justify a station.


Congratulations, John. Very well put. As for [color=#0066cc][size=2][font=Roboto, wf_SegoeUI,][b]@ZH836301[/b][/font][/size][/color] I think he is from the 19th century, his comments don't fit in with 21st century thinking. Obviously he doesn't live in the outer areas of Melbourne, probably a loopy greeny (yes I deliberately lower cased that) from inner Melbourne.
ianb26
Opposite, rather - 21st century thinking is not a station every kilometre, particularly in low-density, outer suburban areas.


The sooner we electrify (and extend) to outer parts of Melbourne, the better. It doesn't really matter if the population is not there yet,
reub
Not how reality works - if a bus can cope with passenger loads, a bus is what should run.


Clyde is filling up right now as we speak, one only has to go to google maps (which I assume it's satellite was last updated in January of this year) to see that there are new estates being built in Clyde, Including one just to the west of the station that looks half done.
stooge
How about you go to land.vic.gov.au, or educate yourself on the PSPs for the region.

Clyde is still a fair way from significant development, until then rail is a waste.




What year are you from? There's Broad Oak Drive to the east of the Proposed site, that connects nicely to Linsell and Berwick Cranbourne roads.
stooge
There is only space for one station between Clyde and Cranbourne - a 1km gap between Cranbourne East and Casey would be ridiculous.

Casey Fields at Berwick-Cbourne Rd/Casey Fields Bvd is the superior site for road connectivity.


It's a long way from Clyde (North) to Cranny station. I doubt many would do it, you might as well just drive all the way to work.
Braddo
Even with Clyde station, much of Clyde North is still better off using Cranbourne, if not Beaconsfield or Berwick.

Lynbrook station is by far the most heavily patronised station on the line. In peak hour there's so many people there you could almost compare it to Flinders Street.
Braddo
Based on what?  Your psychic wisdom?  Cranbourne's patronage (you know, from actual data) is significantly higher.

Which is, of course, hardly unexpected given Cranbourne's catchment is many times greater.

I don't doubt what you say about Lynbrook.
justarider
Which is why your opinions aren't all that important.
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

Mornington Pen, Langwarrin, Carrum Downs, Endeavour Hills, Dingley, Beaumaris, Knox, Templestowe, Burnside, Caroline Springs, Hillside, Gladstone Park, Keilor, Avondale Heights, Maidstone, Keilor East, Airport West, Greenvale, Wollert, Research, Kilsyth...
ZH836301

Langwarrin: sparking funded by federal and state Liberals includes station at Langwarrin.
Caroline Springs: has a station.
Wollert: has been proposed as a possible branch from Epping.

In other words, those places that are remotely close to an existing alignment have been on the cards for rail for some time. Clyde is similar.
  justarider Chief Train Controller

Location: Stuck on VR and hoping for better.
Mornington Pen, Langwarrin, Carrum Downs, Endeavour Hills, Dingley, Beaumaris, Knox, Templestowe, Burnside, Caroline Springs, Hillside, Gladstone Park, Keilor, Avondale Heights, Maidstone, Keilor East, Airport West, Greenvale, Wollert, Research, Kilsyth...

Langwarrin: sparking funded by federal and state Liberals includes station at Langwarrin.
Caroline Springs: has a station.
Wollert: has been proposed as a possible branch from Epping.

In other words, those places that are remotely close to an existing alignment have been on the cards for rail for some time. Clyde is similar.
potatoinmymouth
add in other locations that have nearby stations, over a local boundary line
Keilor - see Keilor Plains
Kilsyth - see Mooroolbark
Keilor East/Avondale Heights/Airport West - that's 3 names same zone. try the trams.
Maidstone - tram
Greenvale - see Roxburgh Park
Burnside another local name for Caroline Springs
Research - see Eltham
Mornington Pen - was ripped out and no local carry on, in the last decade, to bring back
Hillside - see Watergardens
Gladstone Park - see Broadmeadows, or wait for SRL
Carrum Downs - see Seaford, a bit far. Cranbourne/Lynbrook further but easier.

Endevour Hill  - got one case.
Knox - possibly tram
But how could you forget Rowville. Tram is on the way.

cheers
John
  justarider Chief Train Controller

Location: Stuck on VR and hoping for better.
Just read the post from [color=#0066cc][size=2][font=Roboto, wf_SegoeUI,][b]@ianb26[/b][/font][/size][/color], somebody that actually lives in Cranbourne East.
There is a huge number of residents within close proximity to justify 2 stations.
Anecdotes are meaningless.

Lynbrook station is by far the most heavily patronised station on the line. In peak hour there's so many people there you could almost compare it to Flinders Street.
Based on what?  Your psychic wisdom?  Cranbourne's patronage (you know, from actual data) is significantly higher.
Which is, of course, hardly unexpected given Cranbourne's catchment is many times greater.

I don't doubt what you say about Lynbrook.
Which is why your opinions aren't all that important.
ZH836301
Unlike @ZH836301, I try to refrain from abusing posters for sharing their personal observations. Try it some time.

Lynbrook       AM peak 758 entries
Merinda Park AM peak 640 entries
Cranbourne   AM peak 943 entries
https://transport.vic.gov.au/-/media/tfv-documents/ptv/ptv-station-by-station-fact-sheet-accessible-version-2015.xls?la=en&hash=78BF23E43736F90B9CB8F843E62D2553

4 year old data, but shows Lynbrook 80% size of Cranny.
NOT insignificant AND Lynbrook pax have to find their way onto an already loaded train.

Pretty poor of PTV to not update their publication. It is after all just a miki count at the gate.
We can only presume the numbers are now bigger because that is how it feels.

cheers
John
  TheMeddlingMonk Deputy Commissioner

Location: The Time Vortex near Melbourne, Australia
Pretty poor of PTV to not update their publication. It is after all just a miki count at the gate.
justarider
From people I've spoken to, getting data out of the myki system is almost like trying to get blood out of a stone.
  stooge spark Train Controller

Well for a start... Mornington Pen, Langwarrin, Carrum Downs, Endeavour Hills, Dingley, Beaumaris, Knox, Templestowe, Burnside, Caroline Springs, Hillside, Gladstone Park, Keilor, Avondale Heights, Maidstone, Keilor East, Airport West, Greenvale, Wollert, Research, Kilsyth...Maidstone and Airport West already have a rail in the form of trams, Langwarrin is going to get a station as part of a rail extension, Caroline Springs, while not having a station within the suburb boundaries, does have a station nearby which sole purpose is to serve it, Research is very small and won't grow anytime soon (Clyde is roughly it's population, but is exploding at the moment), and most of the other ones will either get one in the future, or have a suburb next to it which does have a station (and isn't going to be a 40000+ cookie cutter suburb, which Clyde is). Only places such as Endeavour Hills, Mornington Peninsula and Greenvale have any arguement here.
Development of the Clyde Town Centre will coincide with an appropriate level of development of the area to justify a station.
No it won't, there's going to be a massive amount of houses by the time the first hole is dug. Mernda proves this, it has 20000+ people crammed in and still doesn't have any work on it's town centre.
Opposite, rather - 21st century thinking is not a station every kilometre, particularly in low-density, outer suburban areas.
21st century thinking also isn't refusing to build a station for a massive population because that place doesn't have a town centre yet.
Not how reality works - if a bus can cope with passenger loads, a bus is what should run.
A bus is not going to cope in 5 years time though.
How about you go to land.vic.gov.au, or educate yourself on the PSPs for the region.

Clyde is still a fair way from significant development, until then rail is a waste

Clyde isn't a fair way from development, it's happening right now, are you blind?

There is only space for one station between Clyde and Cranbourne - a 1km gap between Cranbourne East and Casey would be ridiculous.

Casey Fields at Berwick-Cbourne Rd/Casey Fields Bvd is the superior site for road connectivity.

The Cranbourne East location has better access to services
If we're only going to have one, Cranny East seems like the better option.
Even with Clyde station, much of Clyde North is still better off using Cranbourne, if not Beaconsfield or Berwick.
Clyde station would be closer for the southern part of Clyde North (and related estates), although I will agree that some may find better use in those other stations you mentioned.

Which is, of course, hardly unexpected given Cranbourne's catchment is many times greater.
May it also be because Cranbourne's catchment includes Cranbourne East and Clyde?
Using the myki info that John has provided, I'd assume that if the Clyde extension ever opened then Lynbrook would overtake Cranbourne as busiest of that line.
  ptvcommuter Train Controller

The council has planned that the town centre will be in Clyde when the rail line is built. Stations at Cranbourne East and Clyde, Casey if you want an extra Station like Marymede/Middle Gorge on the Mernda Line. That should be adequate until future Electrification to Koo Wee Rup, if we are going to or if the Leongatha Line is ever reopened

Link below.

https://vpa-web.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Clyde-Creek-and-Casey-Fields-South-Newsletter1.pdf
  justarider Chief Train Controller

Location: Stuck on VR and hoping for better.
What year are you from? There's Broad Oak Drive to the east of the Proposed site, that connects nicely to Linsell and Berwick Cranbourne roads.
There is only space for one station between Clyde and Cranbourne - a 1km gap between Cranbourne East and Casey would be ridiculous.

Casey Fields at Berwick-Cbourne Rd/Casey Fields Bvd is the superior site for road connectivity.
ZH836301
try a little map reading.

Cranbourne to Broad Oak drive 2km
Broad Oak drive to Casey Field 2km
Casey Field to Clyde 2km

1km gap is rubbish

EDIT:
Berwick-Cbourne Rd/Casey Fields Bvd is also a rubbish site. Skyrail/trench needed here , terrible squeeze for the station.
Even if they did, then the sports area would be really annoyed about their carparks being filled up by train commuters.
Better the other end of the fields, behind the Coles shopping centre. Road connects pretty good and ZH does so prefer being near shops.

cheers
John
  x31 Chief Commissioner

Location: gallifrey
The council has planned that the town centre will be in Clyde when the rail line is built. Stations at Cranbourne East and Clyde, Casey if you want an extra Station like Marymede/Middle Gorge on the Mernda Line. That should be adequate until future Electrification to Koo Wee Rup, if we are going to or if the Leongatha Line is ever reopened

Link below.

https://vpa-web.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Clyde-Creek-and-Casey-Fields-South-Newsletter1.pdf
ptvcommuter

Would KooWeRup be a better location in the short term as it has more space and would also be the bus interchange to the southern areas like Philip Island?
  ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

Location: BleakCity
You fools do realise I support an extension to Clyde... but only once development actually justifies it.

Those suburbs listed all have development farther from railways than Casey and Clyde currently.

Unlike [color=#0066cc][size=2][font=Roboto, wf_SegoeUI,][b]@ZH836301[/b][/font][/size][/color], I try to refrain from abusing posters for sharing their personal observations. Try it some time.

Lynbrook       AM peak 758 entries
Merinda Park AM peak 640 entries
Cranbourne   AM peak 943 entries
[color=#0066cc][size=2][font=Roboto, wf_SegoeUI,]https://transport.vic.gov.au/-/media/tfv-documents/ptv/ptv-s...[/font][/size][/color]

4 year old data, but shows Lynbrook 80% size of Cranny.
NOT insignificant AND Lynbrook pax have to find their way onto an already loaded train.
justarider
Cranbourne's patronage is twice that of Lynbrook, which is on a similar level to Merinda Park.


No it won't, there's going to be a massive amount of houses by the time the first hole is dug. Mernda proves this, it has 20000+ people crammed in and still doesn't have any work on it's town centre.
stooge

The situation in Mernda/Doreen is nothing like Clyde - the former has a significant amount of development around the station to support a service.


A bus is not going to cope in 5 years time though.
stooge

Then build it in 5 years.


Clyde isn't a fair way from development, it's happening right now, are you blind?
sttoge

Are you?


try a little map reading.

Cranbourne to Broad Oak drive 2km
Broad Oak drive to Casey Field 2km
Casey Field to Clyde 2km

1km gap is rubbish
justarider
Are you incapable?  Broad Oak Dr to Casey Fields Bvd is clearly 1km.
  justarider Chief Train Controller

Location: Stuck on VR and hoping for better.
You fools do realise I support an extension to Clyde... but only once development actually justifies it.

Those suburbs listed all have development farther from railways than Casey and Clyde currently.

Unlike [color=#0066cc][size=2][font=Roboto, wf_SegoeUI,][b]@ZH836301[/b][/font][/size][/color], I try to refrain from abusing posters for sharing their personal observations. Try it some time.

Lynbrook       AM peak 758 entries
Merinda Park AM peak 640 entries
Cranbourne   AM peak 943 entries
Cranbourne's patronage is twice that of Lynbrook, which is on a similar level to Merinda Park.


try a little map reading.

Cranbourne to Broad Oak drive 2km
Broad Oak drive to Casey Field 2km
Casey Field to Clyde 2km

1km gap is rubbish
Are you incapable?  Broad Oak Dr to Casey Fields Bvd is clearly 1km.
ZH836301
I did say that i try to refrain from abuse, but for you I might make an exception

Support Clyde - you have a funny way of showing it. When do YOU think it should be built?  5,10,15 years.?
Re-read the title of this thread. Starting construction tomorrow, it would still be 5 years from when this thread started.

943 is NOT double 758 . go back to school and learn some arithmetic.

Casey Fields Bvd is only a location that suits your argument. It is a stupid place for a station.
Conveniently ignored my last paragraph.

Do you really believe that a car park at a suburban footy training ground is the most suitable site.
Apart from the fields car park (which they should NOT give up) there is no space.
A major under/over intersection would make the roads/station interconnect a shambles..

By your own reasoning, the station needs to be near an activity centre.
That would be down the Berwick-Cranbourne Rd at the Coles Shopping Centre, which has plenty of empty land next to the rail line. And by coincidence happens to be an even spread of 2km per station.

Just get over the fact that you have a support base of ONE.

without cheer
John
  justarider Chief Train Controller

Location: Stuck on VR and hoping for better.
The council has planned that the town centre will be in Clyde when the rail line is built. Stations at Cranbourne East and Clyde, Casey if you want an extra Station like Marymede/Middle Gorge on the Mernda Line. That should be adequate until future Electrification to Koo Wee Rup, if we are going to or if the Leongatha Line is ever reopened

Link below.

https://vpa-web.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Clyde-Creek-and-Casey-Fields-South-Newsletter1.pdf

Would KooWeRup be a better location in the short term as it has more space and would also be the bus interchange to the southern areas like Philip Island?
x31
From little thing big things grow.

Adding another 16km (to Koo Wee Rup) over the swamp is a certain way to kill the project.
Good idea, very wrong time.

PS. spell "KooWeRup" again and somebody will reach down the screen and rip you bloody arms off.

cheers
John
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

It’s been a while since I’ve been to Kue Wii Raap. How are things down there?
  ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

Location: BleakCity
Support Clyde - you have a funny way of showing it. When do YOU think it should be built?  5,10,15 years.?
Re-read the title of this thread. Starting construction tomorrow, it would still be 5 years from when this thread started
justarider
When development justifies it.


943 is NOT double 758 . go back to school and learn some arithmetic.
justarider

Learn to read a table, those are not the daily patronage figures.


Casey Fields Bvd is only a location that suits your argument. It is a stupid place for a station.
Conveniently ignored my last paragraph.
justarider
Stupid?  Because you bought into Cranbourne East and want a station there?


Do you really believe that a car park at a suburban footy training ground is the most suitable site.
justarider

For a suitable spacing consistent with existing stations for low density suburbia, yes.

Particularly when there is nothing special whatsoever about the old Cranbourne East Station site.


Apart from the fields car park (which they should NOT give up) there is no space.
A major under/over intersection would make the roads/station interconnect a shambles..
justarider
You do realise there is more space there than at Cranbourne East?


Just get over the fact that you have a support base of ONE.
justarider

Do you think I care what the average foamer posts on here?
  drunkill Junior Train Controller

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Plenty of space here for a station and a ton of carparking, even once the road is duplicated.


Ask the AFL for a bit of funding as AFLW and VFL games are played there and would be very handy with a station.
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
It’s been a while since I’ve been to Kue Wii Raap. How are things down there?
potatoinmymouth
Preety dogy and sheite (not to insult those who live there)
  justarider Chief Train Controller

Location: Stuck on VR and hoping for better.
Plenty of space here for a station and a ton of carparking, even once the road is duplicated.


Ask the AFL for a bit of funding as AFLW and VFL games are played there and would be very handy with a station.
drunkill
to which "here" do you refer. A few Km of contention in your pic.

cheers
John
  stooge spark Train Controller

The situation in Mernda/Doreen is nothing like Clyde - the former has a significant amount of development around the station to support a service.
But Mernda doesn't have a town centre yet, therefore it should not have a station until that town centre is finished (probably 30 years from now)

When development justifies it.
So, now?

Stupid?  Because you bought into Cranbourne East and want a station there?
It is stupid, it'd probably get lower patronage then the Cranbourne East one, which would get that sweet secondary school patronage (plus more potential patronage from Casey Grammar).

Do you think I care what the average foamer posts on here?
Considering you're using an idea that a "foamer" once suggested, I'd say yes.
  n459L1150 Train Controller

Location: at sunbury on a V/line service into melbourne, waiting for thousands of impatient people to get on
just tell Daniel Andrews that clyde is in the western suburbs, it'll be built by Monday
  True Believers Chief Commissioner

just tell Daniel Andrews that clyde is in the western suburbs, it'll be built by Monday
n459L1150
Western suburbs are safe seats...Not marginal at all.
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

just tell Daniel Andrews that clyde is in the western suburbs, it'll be built by Monday
n459L1150

What is this even supposed to mean? Where have you been the last 4 years?
  Adogs Chief Train Controller

We're stating the obvious, but clearly the guy above is under the misconception that things get built in safe seats such as the western suburbs.

For his benefit, let's point out that Andrews focussed on shoring up the marginal seat of Yan Yean with the Mernda extension, and the Sandbelt with the Bentleigh etc removals.  

Similarly, Guy is focussing on trying to get hold of the extremely marginal seats of Cranbourne and Frankston.

Meanwhile, safe Labor seat Melton sits waiting for electrification for decades, and safe Labor northern seats like Coburg etc are well down the list of LX removal priority.

You want infrastructure projects, living in a marginal seat helps.
  John.Z Chief Train Controller

We're stating the obvious, but clearly the guy above is under the misconception that things get built in safe seats such as the western suburbs.

For his benefit, let's point out that Andrews focussed on shoring up the marginal seat of Yan Yean with the Mernda extension, and the Sandbelt with the Bentleigh etc removals.  

Similarly, Guy is focussing on trying to get hold of the extremely marginal seats of Cranbourne and Frankston.

Meanwhile, safe Labor seat Melton sits waiting for electrification for decades, and safe Labor northern seats like Coburg etc are well down the list of LX removal priority.

You want infrastructure projects, living in a marginal seat helps.
Adogs
And voting against the grain gets you marginal seats. Wise up folks, time to get woke.

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