‘Lack of rail capacity’ blamed for 220 extra trucks from Dunmore quarry

 

News article: ‘Lack of rail capacity’ blamed for 220 extra trucks from Dunmore quarry

Boral is blaming a lack of rail infrastructure for a push to dump road transport limits from its Dunmore quarry, for an extra 220 truck movements per day.

  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Sounds like a load of crap from Boral.  If there is capacity on the line into Sydney then what is the capacity issue? Operator capacity?

‘Lack of rail capacity’ blamed for 220 extra trucks from Dunmore quarry

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  simstrain Chief Commissioner

It is complete bs by boral because those 540 movements could be done by about a dozen train movements if that. Boral should be looking for new sites in Sydney instead of fighting to put more trucks on the road.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

just doing some calculations it would require 12 x 45 wagon train movements a day.
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
just doing some calculations it would require 12 x 45 wagon train movements a day.
simstrain
The 400m crossing loop at Albion Park is shorter than normal because some of its length is lost to provide catchpoint and departure signal about 80m away from end of loop. This allows for simultaneous arrivals with Left Hand Runnings.
If this length of about 350m is shorter than the length of the engine(e) + 45 wagons, then crossings become problematic.

Albian Park loop should be extended, with higher speed loop turnouts (say X80), to improve things for the ballast trains.

See: http://www.sa-trackandsignal.net/Pdf%20files/Sydney/RC2419.pdf

The length of the Dapto crossing loop is also unclear.

Several other loops on the line are 650m in length.

Perhaps the capacity problem would be reduced if all loops were lengthened to say 650m.

Some sections of line have intermediate block signals for closer following moves on the single line sections.


What exactly is the length in metres of a train with engine(s) and 45 wagons?
What size train can the Dunmore Quarry handle?
These dimensions are conspicuous by their absence.
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
Reading between the lines I get the feeling their complaint is not about line capacity as such, but more to do with the fact that their current rail operator PN has insufficient rolling stock to meet demand and Boral are too tightarsed to invest in new assets i.e. wagons, or provide PN with a contract of sufficient length to justify investment in new wagons.

Much easier to get the taxpayer to pick up the tab and beat the roads into submission.
  fzr560 Chief Train Controller

The biggest constraint on Borals quarry operations is the "steam age" unloading facilities at Enfield and St Peters. If they are fair dinkum, they need only compare their operations with any coal operations around. A balloon loop with reasonable stockpiling facilities would be the ideal solution, but I can't see that happening at either of their existing sites, or anywhere else in suburban Sydney. Shame their old site at Wooli Creek is now home to a thousand flats, sorry apartments.

         I believe the motivation for the large investment in the Peppertree site was that Dunmore is closer to the end of it's life than the beginning, so they are also unlikely to spend any money on infrastructure down there. Buy a truck and join the fun.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Somebody else will buy the truck and work for next to nothing so why pursue rail?
  fzr560 Chief Train Controller

just doing some calculations it would require 12 x 45 wagon train movements a day.
The 400m crossing loop at Albion Park is shorter than normal because some of its length is lost to provide catchpoint and departure signal about 80m away from end of loop. This allows for simultaneous arrivals with Left Hand Runnings.
If this length of about 350m is shorter than the length of the engine(e) + 45 wagons, then crossings become problematic.

Albian Park loop should be extended, with higher speed loop turnouts (say X80), to improve things for the ballast trains.

See: http://www.sa-trackandsignal.net/Pdf%20files/Sydney/RC2419.pdf

The length of the Dapto crossing loop is also unclear.

Several other loops on the line are 650m in length.

Perhaps the capacity problem would be reduced if all loops were lengthened to say 650m.

Some sections of line have intermediate block signals for closer following moves on the single line sections.


What exactly is the length in metres of a train with engine(s) and 45 wagons?
What size train can the Dunmore Quarry handle?
These dimensions are conspicuous by their absence.
awsgc24
45x13.5.....+66=674m. So, too long for Dapto(650m), too long for Enfield, too long for St Peters and certainly too long for Dunmore Quarry. NRC could run around at Dunmore with 2x DL and 15 wagons, so roughly 275m and nothing has changed down there, since.
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
What exactly is the length in metres of a train with engine(s) and 45 wagons?
What size train can the Dunmore Quarry handle?
These dimensions are conspicuous by their absence.
45x13.5.....+66=674m. So, too long for Dapto(650m), too long for Enfield, too long for St Peters and certainly too long for Dunmore Quarry. NRC could run around at Dunmore with 2x DL and 15 wagons, so roughly 275m and nothing has changed down there, since.
fzr560
Website http://www.sa-trackandsignal.net does not have any diagrams of Dunmore Quarry; curses. Sad

Does the Dunmore have any level crossings still near its entrance from the Shellharbour loop?
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
What exactly is the length in metres of a train with engine(s) and 45 wagons?
What size train can the Dunmore Quarry handle?
These dimensions are conspicuous by their absence.
45x13.5.....+66=674m. So, too long for Dapto(650m), too long for Enfield, too long for St Peters and certainly too long for Dunmore Quarry. NRC could run around at Dunmore with 2x DL and 15 wagons, so roughly 275m and nothing has changed down there, since.
fzr560

The Quarry surely needs a 700m loop between old Dunmore and new Shellharbour, where long trains can be broken up or amalgamated to suit the very short loop inside the quarry itself. This isn't Rocket Science.
  ngarner Chief Train Controller

Location: Seville
What exactly is the length in metres of a train with engine(s) and 45 wagons?
What size train can the Dunmore Quarry handle?
These dimensions are conspicuous by their absence.
45x13.5.....+66=674m. So, too long for Dapto(650m), too long for Enfield, too long for St Peters and certainly too long for Dunmore Quarry. NRC could run around at Dunmore with 2x DL and 15 wagons, so roughly 275m and nothing has changed down there, since.
Website http://www.sa-trackandsignal.net does not have any diagrams of Dunmore Quarry; curses. Sad

Does the Dunmore have any level crossings still near its entrance from the Shellharbour loop?
awsgc24
http://www.sa-trackandsignal.net mightn't but http://www.signaldiagramsandphotos.com has some that might assist you. The link is one example of Dunmore:

http://www.signaldiagramsandphotos.com/mywebpages/nsw/Illawarra/dunmore09112011.pdf

It might be throwing 404 Errors for Victorian diagrams but it still has viable links for SA, NSW and WA

Neil
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
Website http://www.sa-trackandsignal.net does not have any diagrams of Dunmore Quarry; curses. Sad
http://www.sa-trackandsignal.net mightn't but http://www.signaldiagramsandphotos.com has some that might assist you. The link is one example of Dunmore:

http://www.signaldiagramsandphotos.com/mywebpages/nsw/Illawarra/dunmore09112011.pdf

It might be throwing 404 Errors for Victorian diagrams but it still has viable links for SA, NSW and WA

Neil
ngarner
Street-Directory Map: http://www.street-directory.com.au/?x=150.83945295473467&y=-34.60735287321815&l=14 shows double tracks and loops.

The following map http://www.street-directory.com.au/?x=150.83500033002485&y=-34.60720106726109&l=13 shows that the first of two loops in the Quarry starts about 300m from the Princes Highway underpass.

If the two loops are combined and the above extension are both built a quarry loop of about 900m is possible.

Whether all the wagons in this long loop can be loaded is problematic. Not enough info. Boral aren't really trying.

The end of the Quarry siding is approx 1350m from the Princes Hwy underpass.

Neither street-directory nor www.signaldiagramsandphotos.com show any details of the Quarry sidings. rat. SadSad

The level crossing where the Quarry siding crossed the now dual carriageway Princes Highway seems to have been replaced by a overpass.
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
Dunmore Quarry

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ^ . . ^ From Sydney
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . + . . +
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .L .. M Illawarra
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .+ . . +
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ./. . .+
. . . . . . ( . Tabbita Road . . . ) . . . . . . . . . . . . . / + . .+
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ./ . .+ .+
:-HS--+---------------/--+-----------------/-----QSid----/. . . .++
. . . . .  .+ . . . . . / . . . +. . . . . . . / . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . +
. . . . . . . + L2. / . . . . . +---L1---/ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .+
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .+
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .v To Nowra
L1 ~ 300m
L2 ~ 150m
QSid ~ 350m
HS = HeadShunt ~ 200m
Tabbita Road is parallel to the Quarry Siding
  fzr560 Chief Train Controller

As previously stated, there is one loop approxomately 300m long.
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
As previously stated, there is one loop approxomately 300m long.
fzr560
L1 in the diagram is about 300m long.
L2 is about 150m.
How they are shunted in unclear.
Where is the loading bin, if any?

I would say that the Quarry track layout could be improved.
  fzr560 Chief Train Controller

The map is wrong, hence the diagram is wrong but more importantly the configuration of the quarry siding  is irrelevant if there is nowhere that can accept a larger train.
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
BTW, are the "Sydenham" unloading sidings actually at Cooks River?

BTW, where are the unloading sidings at Enfield. See: http://www.sa-trackandsignal.net/Pdf%20files/ARTC/AR287.pdf ?
  firefox Station Master

Reading between the lines I get the feeling their complaint is not about line capacity as such, but more to do with the fact that their current rail operator PN has insufficient rolling stock to meet demand and Boral are too tightarsed to invest in new assets i.e. wagons, or provide PN with a contract of sufficient length to justify investment in new wagons.

Much easier to get the taxpayer to pick up the tab and beat the roads into submission.
bingley hall
Yes, I agree the lack of capacity is at the receival end of the supply chain.

Boral has two daily paths from Dunmore available in the current MTP. 9132 in the morning and 9134 in the evening.

The 9132 path is only used when there is a South weekend shutdown - that is about 4 times per year. 9132 ran on Saturday last for this reason. The 9134 path is used on average once per week by diverting one of the Peppertree sets (1297 to 1933).

These trains are push-pull with about 28 wagons (14 pairs).

Firefox
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
http://www.sa-trackandsignal.net mightn't but http://www.signaldiagramsandphotos.com has some that might assist you. The link is one example of Dunmore:

http://www.signaldiagramsandphotos.com/mywebpages/nsw/Illawarra/dunmore09112011.pdf
ngarner

Sadly neither of the SignalDiagramsAndPhotos pages have any detail of the Quarry sidings, and the presumed closure of the Quarry/Princes Hwy level crossing is not shown either.

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